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  • Travis
    Travis

    Excalibur Scroll Saw - What Happened?

    There has been a lot of confusion around the very popular Excalibur scroll saw. They disappeared for awhile without any word.  Then several saws started showing up that looked like the Excalibur, but all under different names.  It turns out there was a bunch of movement between brand rights, design rights, and distribution rights that gets a little sticky.  Peter Kennedy from King Canada helped shed a little light on how all of this shakes out.  Hopefully you'll find it interesting and understand this confusing topic a little bit better.

    - - - - - - - - - - 

     

    Hi Travis, thanks for getting back to me.  I will try to make this as simple and painless as possible.  It is very convoluted so I think point form time lines will tell the story best.  My biggest concern is scroll saw enthusiasts, knowing the reputation of the original Excalibur scroll saw, will be unaware it is still available as well as parts and help if required.  Please note, my dates may be off by a bit but you will get the idea as to how things have evolved.

    FYI, King Canada is the largest supplier of wood and metal working machinery in Canada.  We are almost 40 years old and are just now entering the US market.

    • 1982  -  Somerville Design introduces the Excalibur scroll saws manufactured in Toronto Ontario
    • 2003 – General International acquires the assets of Summerville Design including the Excalibur brand.  G.I. sends the 21” scroll saw to Taiwan to be manufactured and adds the 30” version.
    • 2008 + or – G.I. adds the 16” version.
    • 2010 – EX-21 awarded “Editor’s Choice” by Scroll Saw Woodworking and Crafts magazine.
    • 2012  - the EX-21AE 30th anniversary edition is introduced.  1000 units available. Color changed from green to black and dust collection added to the table, stand and foot switch are included.
    • 2012-13 – G.I. goes back to the models EX-16, EX-21 and Ex-30 retaining the black color and other Anniversary options on all saws. No more General green..
    • 2014 + or – G.I. is sold to DMT holdings of Seattle WA. Including the Excalibur brand but not the manufacturing rights for the scroll saw.  They are held by the manufacturer in Taiwan.
    • 2015-16 - JPW (Jet)designs their 22” saw and has it manufactured by the same Taiwan maker as the original Excalibur saws.
    • 2016 + or – The original Taiwanese manufacturer seeks new North American distribution for the original design scroll saws.
    • 2016 – King Canada is granted distribution rights to the original 16”, 21” and 30” saws for the Canadian market. They are branded Excelsior in Canada and King Industrial in the U.S.
    • 2016 - Due to design similarities of the Jet 22”, the manufacturer restricts King’s U.S. distribution to the 16” and the 30” versions.
    • 2016 – Woodcraft commits to national U.S. distribution of the King Industrial 16” and 30” scroll saws.
    • 2017 – Seyco introduces their version of the saw manufactured by the same maker as the Excalibur, Excelsior, King Industrial and the JPW saws.
    • 2017 - The European saws Azxminster, Pegas Etc.,  are all made by the same Taiwanese maker. These saws were previously supplied to them by G.I.
    • 2018 + or -  General International (DMT Holdings) begins to market a Chinese made version of the 21” saw under the Excalibur name and model number.

    Summary, The only original Excalibur saws are now branded either King Industrial (U.S.) or Excelsior (Canada).  At this time, there is no original design 21” available in the U.S.  The Seyco and the JPW (Jet)saws are designed after the Excalibur saws with proprietary differences.  So, the King Industrial/Excelsior saws are the original  design with a different name and the saw branded Excalibur is a different saw with the original  name. The many manufacturing nuances and extreme tolerances  make these saws virtually impossible to copy and have them function as they were originally designed.

    Note, when I use the term “original”, I refer to original manufacturer, original design, original components, parts, motors, and specifications.

    North American Model #’s

    • Original EX-16 is now Excelsior XL-16 in Canada
    • Original EX-16 is now King Industrial KXL-16 in the U.S.
    • Original EX-21 is now Excelsior XL-21 in Canada (not available in the U.S.)
    • Original EX-30 is now Excelsior XL-30 in Canada
    • Original EX-30 is now King Industrial KXL-30 in the U.S.
    • General still uses model #EX-21, “made in China” on the box and  16” or 30’ no longer available.
    • Seyco Model ST-21, 21” no other sizes available to my knowledge
    • Jet Model #727299K, 22” no other sizes available to my knowledge

     

    I hope this gives some clarity to the situation.


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    I think it is great to have a rep from the manufactures of the tools we use on the forum. Right here, on this forum is the pulse of the scroll saw Community. From begginers to professionals and in between, we can all learn from each other if we are willing to listen to each other. PeterK, you are welcome here. If you are willing to listen to us, yours will become a superior product!

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    With a vintage Hawk, a Type 1 DeWalt , and  a Seyco EX 21,  the preference is the Seyco, due to stack cutting that is a bit more tedious on the DeWalt.  The DeWalt tension  is the best.  The arm elevation is an issue.  All are great saws. Top feeding is my preference, so the Hawk is last choice.

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    I must be missing something with top feeding. My first saw was a Dewalt and I learned to bottom feed with it. Now I have 2 Excalburs and still bottom feed. I guess I will have to force myself to top feed for a while to see if I can get used to it. 

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    Just found this topic  I hope I can ask a question thats in line with all comments.

    Just noticed an Excalibur on craigslist  about 15 miles from me.

    Excalibur 30 VS  made by sommerville  Design  S#  1196866   mfg in Canada

    This looks like the original design.

    Would this be a good saw to buy.  List price seems quite high at 700.00??

    Apparently this design was improved after move to Taiwan mfg

    Advice welcome

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    sommerville design is no longer around. they made the type 1 dewalt saws and the excalibur saws until about 2003. after that it went overseas to china or tiawan. the new excalibur saws are made in china and from what a few people on here have said the quality is not as good. i have never had an excalibur saw but i started on a type 1 dewalt and it is still growing strong. some people on here have had ok results with the type 2 dewalt saws. are you not going to fix your hawk scroll saw? 

    doug

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    I bought an Excalibur from  Seyco a few years ago. I don't remember exactly what year. Can you tell by the serial or model number?

     

    Update

    I emailed Ray at Seyco and asked him when I bought my saw? It was Oct/2012. I should have just called him to begin with. I have one of the better ones. Still works just fine.

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    DME72

    Yes, I updated the Bushton topic with info and pictures

    History on sommerville records  an employee was hired by a company called International something and improved the

    design when it was mfg in Taiwan.  Don't know what the improvement was.

     

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    If you want to spend $700, why not just step up and buy a Pegas? That way, everything is brand new, and you get the Pegas blade clamps which are well worth the$100 that get for others to upgrade to. And you get a warranty. The Pegas saw has already become the "go-to" in that type of saw. I have 2 EX's from the good years and if either of them ever quits, I'll step up to a Pegas for sure.

     

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    My opinion is that saw might be worth more around $200 - 300 tops..  As Ray said.. a Pegas is the go to saw of that style and is nearly that same price point.. Maybe not shipped to Canada though?? In my area. There isn't a used saw that I would buy for more than $600 and it better be a really pristine saw for that kind of money for used.. and that kind of money used it'd only be a Hegner or Hawk that I'd pay that.. because a Excalibur or Pegas types of saws can be had new with a warranty etc for just a small amount more.. You can't buy a new Hawk or Henger in that price range which is why I say that would be the only used saw that I'd consider spending around $600 ish on.. about half of the price if it was new.. 

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    Comments certainly confirm that an old design good be a boat anchor when parts fail.

    These scroll saws have an interesting life due to companies changing ownership and manufacturing facilities.

    I was aware of the Pegas saw plus the King Canada version of same design.  Both made in same factory (Taiwan)

    I suspect the Pegas has been fine tuned and will have less vibration /noise.

    Can't see buying a saw in immediate future, always good to plan ahead so will look for testimonials on Pegas

     

     

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    12 hours ago, Clem's woodies said:

    Comments certainly confirm that an old design good be a boat anchor when parts fail.

    These scroll saws have an interesting life due to companies changing ownership and manufacturing facilities.

    I was aware of the Pegas saw plus the King Canada version of same design.  Both made in same factory (Taiwan)

    I suspect the Pegas has been fine tuned and will have less vibration /noise.

    Can't see buying a saw in immediate future, always good to plan ahead so will look for testimonials on Pegas

     

     

    The benefit to buying the Pegas is that it has their great blade clamps already on it and you would have to add them to anything else you buy. And they are worth every penny.

     

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    On 7/12/2020 at 10:34 AM, Clem's woodies said:

    Just found this topic  I hope I can ask a question thats in line with all comments.

    Just noticed an Excalibur on craigslist  about 15 miles from me.

    Excalibur 30 VS  made by sommerville  Design  S#  1196866   mfg in Canada

    This looks like the original design.

    Would this be a good saw to buy.  List price seems quite high at 700.00??

    Apparently this design was improved after move to Taiwan mfg

    Advice welcome

    Yes, the price is high.  Does it have the left to right inclined plane blade tensioner?   Some folks over the years decided that the 30" was too much leverage and made it hard to keep blade tension, and went back to the 21" style.  I think, but do not know, that they had the white flip tensioner.  There is a world of difference between those two systems.  The flip style is OK in smaller blades and shorter saws, but the lever sliding plane is wonderful for thicker stack cutting and puzzle integrity.  Having said all that, throat distance matters.  If you do large projects, they become somewhere between annoying and impossible when the throat is too small.  

    The design may have been improved, but the original was and is a great saw.  Same with the DeWalt 788 Type 1.  The EX allowed the arm to rise much higher then the DeWalt.

    If your work needs the 30" throat, make them an offer.  If you don't need that much throat, offer less, buy new, or keep looking.   Best wishes, and let us know what you decide.

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    Hi Rolf

    The original Ex (purple) had the DeWalt style tensioner. a knob that slid left to right and somewhat up.  It was the up that provided the tension.  You could apply as much tension as you wanted in one move.  The flip lever on the newer design is a single tension level for all uses.

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    i would like to thank the OP of this thread, it has been very informative and has answered some questions that have been popping up on European scroll saw threads about the worrisome increasing number of failures and problems with the Jet and Axminster branded Excalibur machines.

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