bonacker Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 I have uploaded many things to "Bragging Rights" and have been gratified with the responses received from the many good folks on this site. All responses have been " great job", "wonderful cutting", "great work" , "thanks for sharing,' etc. What I would love to see is a forum section where we can get really constructive ideas or "criticism" on what we have done. I don't mean to suggest that we are knocking somebody's work, but asking our members to suggest ways that could make our specific uploaded work better (at least in their own eyes). It does not suggest that we are demeaning anybody's work, but to suggest methods whereby something could be cut a bit differently or painted or finished in a different or more efficient way. Some of us are undoubtedly better at doing certain aspects of scrolling than I am. I would be grateful if we could share our individual expertise. Our folks in the community are generous and sharing. I'm sure I can learn from their experiences with scrolling methods. The word "criticism" has a bad rep. I appreciate everything I have seen from all our members. What I would appreciate is a section where I can upload something I have done under a heading "Anybody out there who can suggest ways I could have made this better? ". Well meaning ideas or suggestions would or should not offend any of us who are serious about our scrolling. Something like " The deer you made is great but I think it would look better if its eyes were not so far apart", or "Putting clouds in your blue background would make it stunning." I would love to hear things like this, and would be grateful, not offended. Or does this idea cause more trouble than it's worth? Even Rembrandt had his critics. keefie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kardar2 Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 I think you could always just post it on the general topic and ask for suggestions. amazingkevin 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonacker Posted October 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 Perhaps the word I should use is "critique" "Critiquing" each other's work, not "criticizing." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amazingkevin Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 Ask and you shall receive! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjR Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 I have made sawdust for the plus of 65 years and still learn new things and still screw up too; so I do like your idea! Any of my projects that anyone wants to tell me how to improve; I will listen-- might even try the idea if I think it has any merit. I will always read and think about it! I wll appreciate any ideas on my website also! Thanks for this suggestion and I hope it gets implemented. keefie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Scroller Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 Perhaps the word I should use is "critique" "Critiquing" each other's work, not "criticizing." Believe me Art when I say, if it's crap I'll tell you and I only say it good if it's good everyone starts some where and it will be good for a starter but rubbish for someone who's been at it for years and I know I joke a lot but there is a serious person trying to break out in me somewhere I think we are all happy to be told how to do something better, sometimes I don't answer at all that's because I'm lost for words. So put a job up and I'll see how much I can criticise it . Roly Falcon, bobscroll, Rob Roy and 4 others 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NC Scroller Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 This is a tough one. People tend to be politically correct or follow the line "if you can't say something nice don't say anything at all." I for one will be happy to give feedback back if: - the poster asks - if I have something to offer oldhudson and bobscroll 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrolling Steve Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 I have been Scrolling for a little over a year now and have learned from this site by paying attention to what others do.....I do not feel i am in a position to critique anyone's work......Like Roly i don't always comment......If you want feedback on an aspect of your work, just ask for it......just my two cents !! bobscroll and Phantom Scroller 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldhudson Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 I agree with Scott. This is difficult for most people. Even responding honestly to your post may p@#s some folks off. Frankly it's pretty difficult to evaluate cut quality based on a picture, especially as the pic quality itself varies substantially. Although in some better pics you can see smoother cuts and others not so much. As for design we may or may not know if the design is original or from another source. If original then our own bias can show up. Someone posts a cutting of the Last Supper, but I'm Jewish - it's okay. But someone posts a picture of a Star of David - well done. Someone posts a picture of a flower and I may or may not like it and I don't even know why! Often there is info missing from a post that may impact a persons ability to comment. The materials and thickness for example. I think fine cutting in 1/2 maple is tougher than in 1/8 BB. Obviously the number of entry holes. Then there is complexity. Because this is a scroll saw forum most of the items with be 'portrait' items. I expect that. But sometimes folks go beyond that with boxes or clocks or inlays - all of which for me personally raises my interest. And let's not forget the environment people work in. Kevin does amazing work - outside under a tarp! And there is another member, who works in an unheated garage in Wisconsin. If I had to work outside I'd take up knitting. I like the folks here and don't want to upset the apple cart so I have and will continue to comment on those I like for whatever reason and leave along those that for whatever reason(s) I don't like as well as some other work. Really sorry if I angered anyone. Please keep your fingers safe today. Lucky2, Phantom Scroller and Scrolling Steve 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryEA Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 Critique this please.. If you want constructive critiques, maybe ask. Berry covered it pretty well. One point, " does the fewer comments " indicate a critique in itself? Lucky2, oldhudson and Scrolling Steve 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ike Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 If I don't care for some work I usually say something is not up to standard because the cutter is a beginner I will say that the curves are the most difficult part of scrolling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travis Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 ... Or does this idea cause more trouble than it's worth? ... You hit the nail on the head. I tried this in the early days of SSV and it went very poorly. The special "feedback" forum only lasted a few days before I shut it down. I think if you want a critique or feedback on a project, you need to explicitly ask for it. Then be prepared for the opinions, because there will be plenty; most of which are contradictory. Phantom Scroller, Scrolling Steve, keefie and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonacker Posted October 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 Thanks guys, for your replies. They are all good. Travis says he tried it once and it did not work out very well. It took me almost an hour to write that post, as I wanted to be very careful in what I was suggesting. Everybody here is very nice and we want to keep it that way. I think you are right in that there are other ways on this site where we can ask for help or critiques on a project. Scrolling Steve, Phantom Scroller and keefie 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky2 Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 Art, I used to critique a cutting when I saw something I didn't like, or, had a suggestion on improving the item. It caused more problems then it was worth, and I had people sending me mean messages telling me to keep my ideas to myself and asking, why I thought I knew it all. Now I hardly comment, other than to say nice work or good work, something along that line. People will tell you they want honest opinions, but, when you give honest opinions they're not appreciated. Especially, if your honest opinion is opposite to what others have posted. Like has been stated, if you want an honest and good critique it's best that you ask for one when posting the piece. At least then, the person who gives the negative/constructive posting shouldn't be looked down upon for giving the negative/constructive post, but, that's not what happens. Len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombatie Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 If we are asked our opinions we give it and as Travis said there will be many and varied. Sometimes we say if something looks a little off even if it looks good to the next person, it is all in the way a person looks at something. You need to tell us what you want us to look at, like do his eyes look OK, could I have done them differently, or should I have left his arm out because his hand looks strange, etc. We can't help if we don't know what we are looking at. If we are looking at an overall piece we say Well done, Great work etc., because that is how we feel about this piece. Hope this makes sense. Marg keefie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NC Scroller Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 Len made a great comment I want to expand on. When a friend (we are all friends here) asks for feedback do it on a positive tone. In other words don't focus on what you don't like but make suggestions based on what you would have done and how it would make it better. oldhudson and keefie 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustLarry Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 Several years ago on another forum there was a critique topic area. It did not work well. When the MSN groups closed the forum went to new site and the critique topic area was not opened. What they did was to ask for volunteers that would critique/mentor work of others. The member wanting constructive criticism would PM one or more of the volunteers. This would keep it out of the "public" view yet still provide assistance to those that requested it. Do not know how this worked as I was did not participate on either side of the aisle. Larry Travis 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubgoofy2003 Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 Bonaker, The idea of critique is OK, and for peoples opinion as to what could be done to improve. We all have different opinions on everything. That's one of the reasons for shopping. I just put an item on General scrollsawing for other scrollers ideas on pricing of a project. I asked for suggestions & ideas as well. I think we all need some critique at one time or another. We learn every day for a lifetime. Thanks for listening. LarryEA 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken O Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 The nice thing about this forum (from what I have seen) is that even if you asked for and did get some criticism it would always be good info that you could use to improve yourself. " Try such and such a blade, slow down/crank up your speed." Never a "That looks like junk, you suck" type of post. The people here are the best I have seen on any forum anywhere. wombatie and keefie 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ike Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 If you want to get a fair criticism ask for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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