Frank Pellow Posted December 20, 2015 Report Share Posted December 20, 2015 All the patterns I have attempted to saw since I took up this hobby a couple of months ago have saw lines that emanate at a open area of the pattern. I have yet to see a line that is all on its own but I except that they exist on some patterns.Yesterday I was working on the Purple Martin pattern from Sheila Landry shown in photo #1 below. The pattern called for a big hole that I have shaded with pencil. I decided that I did not want to have such a hole and figured that I could accomplish this desired effect without a hole if I did not cut the part of the line that I have shaded in orange. But, this left me with the need for two entry holes for the saw blade.The smallest drill bit that I could find was 1/32 of an inch and a 2/0 blade will fit through that hole. I have three different electric drills but none of them could hold a drill bit that small. Lee Valley sells what they can a “pin vise†(catalogue 81D40.27) and, using this, I was able to drill the two holes that I needed. See photo #2 below. I drilled both holes at the intersection of two lines where I thought they would be less noticeable.Photo #3 was taken just after the saw blade was inserted through the first hole and photo #4 was taken after the sawing had been completed. The two entry holes can be seen if one examines the bird quite closely but I think that, once the bird has been painted, the holes will be quite difficult to spot.I am seeking advice as to a better way to make this type of cut. lawson56 and tomsteve 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonR Posted December 20, 2015 Report Share Posted December 20, 2015 You can purchase small drill bits here http://mikesworkshop.com/newprod.htm Mikes Workshop is now owned by Wooden Teddy bear but I believe that you can still order from Mikes website. In order to camouflage the entry hole, I taper the cut from the entry hole along the line so it is roughly in the shape of an elongated teardrop shape which causes the line to thicken gradually away from the hole so that the hole is less noticeable. Don R heppnerguy and Lucky2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgman Posted December 20, 2015 Report Share Posted December 20, 2015 What you are referring to is called veining. Don above gave you a good source for a mini collet that will hold small drill bits. They also sell mini drill bits to fit different sizes of blades. Another source for mini collets and drill bits is http://www.sloanswoodshop.com The mini collets allow you to use mini drill bits in your drill press. Drill the hole at an intersection of two veins and the hole will virtually disappear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amazingkevin Posted December 20, 2015 Report Share Posted December 20, 2015 The big box store lowes has a$29.drill bit holder that i use in my drill press I love it you won't bend this one so it will wobble.Very well made All the patterns I have attempted to saw since I took up this hobby a couple of months ago have saw lines that emanate at a open area of the pattern. I have yet to see a line that is all on its own but I except that they exist on some patterns.Yesterday I was working on the Purple Martin pattern from Sheila Landry shown in photo #1 below. The pattern called for a big hole that I have shaded with pencil. I decided that I did not want to have such a hole and figured that I could accomplish this desired effect without a hole if I did not cut the part of the line that I have shaded in orange. But, this left me with the need for two entry holes for the saw blade.The smallest drill bit that I could find was 1/32 of an inch and a 2/0 blade will fit through that hole. I have three different electric drills but none of them could hold a drill bit that small. Lee Valley sells what they can a “pin vise†(catalogue 81D40.27) and, using this, I was able to drill the two holes that I needed. See photo #2 below. I drilled both holes at the intersection of two lines where I thought they would be less noticeable.Photo #3 was taken just after the saw blade was inserted through the first hole and photo #4 was taken after the sawing had been completed. The two entry holes can be seen if one examines the bird quite closely but I think that, once the bird has been painted, the holes will be quite difficult to spot.I am seeking advice as to a better way to make this type of cut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkey Posted December 20, 2015 Report Share Posted December 20, 2015 I use a drill bit just big enough for the blade to fit through. I use the FD new 3/0 spiral blades and a number 54 bit. I use a Dremel tool to do all of my drilling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlin Posted December 20, 2015 Report Share Posted December 20, 2015 I go with Don for all that he wrote..............But Have found some smaller bits............... the end that goes into the chuck is larger at 1/4 inch from memery so one can use the drill press. PCB bits That is only one size there are others....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsteve Posted December 20, 2015 Report Share Posted December 20, 2015 (edited) when i run into that what i do it put the entrance hole on a radius, or if a straight vein in the middle of the line, then feather out the spot where the entrance hole is. basically widening the vein just a bit where the entrance hole is and blend it in. if that makes sense Edited December 20, 2015 by tomsteve woodknots and Lucky2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted December 20, 2015 Report Share Posted December 20, 2015 All good advice and I've tried all suggestions and they all work. I think you can use a smaller drill bit, maybe a #70. No matter which way you do it you will be masking the hole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappile Posted December 20, 2015 Report Share Posted December 20, 2015 Yes, all good advice. The only thing I can think to add is, when buying the small bits (I use #63 through #71 mostly) the advantage of buying them from some place like Mike's or Sloan's is you can buy specific sizes and you can but them in bunches. These small bits break, so it is worth buying a dozen or so at a time. If you buy a set you will probably get some sizes you will not need or use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sorcier Posted December 20, 2015 Report Share Posted December 20, 2015 I use a Dremel in a Dremel workstation that makes the device a small drill press. I use different size collets, depending on the bit size. It also doubles as a spindle for the small sanding drums. Ward Rob 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsN Posted December 20, 2015 Report Share Posted December 20, 2015 I use the smallest drill bit I have then feather out the cut a bit so that I can hide the hole. I tried to make a picture to help explain. With a little practice you can hide most of the entry holes. tomsteve and woodknots 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heppnerguy Posted December 20, 2015 Report Share Posted December 20, 2015 I learned something new again, although I have used most of the tips and didn't even understand that I could be solving a problem for others as I adapt an idea to my pieces. I love the ideas that come up here and the questions too. they do serve as a help for others as well Dick heppnerguy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crupiea Posted December 20, 2015 Report Share Posted December 20, 2015 (edited) I live for these small holes so i use a 2/0 or 3/0 blade jewelers blades. They leave some burrs on the back but cleans right up with a spot of sandpaper. Also I use #74 bits and a small jewelers drill, the spiral kind. I get me bits from bens scroll saw online. he has alot of super small ones. You can put the hole right on the line like you did but wont see it. Edited December 20, 2015 by crupiea tomsteve 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young_Scroller Posted December 21, 2015 Report Share Posted December 21, 2015 I do the same as mrs n as I dont have any of the really tiny drill bits Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EarltheScroller Posted December 21, 2015 Report Share Posted December 21, 2015 I use a Dremel in a Dremel workstation that makes the device a small drill press. I use different size collets, depending on the bit size. It also doubles as a spindle for the small sanding drums. Ward This is what I do if I have to. Most of the time I use a 1/16" in my drill press and just open it up in a tear drop shape as has been mentioned. But if I have too I will resort to my Dremel with a small collet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Pellow Posted December 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2015 WOW, lots of responses! I thanks all of you who responded to my question and gave me good advise and information. I will summarize what I learned: As I suspected, this is a common practise and it even has a name -"veining" There is a whole other system of drill bit sizing that I did not know existed. I have many drill bits but they are all either metric or imperial. By the way, I don't think it's good that there is yet another measuring system but what I think hardly matters. There is at least one saw blade size smaller than 2/0, and that is 3/0. I have yet to find out where I can get that size in Canada, but I will search around later this morning. There is a technique called "feathering out" that can be used to sort of hide the hole. MrsN was even kind enoght to illustrate this technique with a drawing. Lots of people use a drill press to insert holes and one can get really small collets for these really small drill presses. By the way, my drill press is a "monster" standing over two metres high and on a wheeled based so that I can move it around my woodworking shed. I didn't know that such small drill presses existed. Receiving this voluminous, rapid, and valuable response here on the Scroll Saw Village prompted me to pay the annual fee and become a "supporter" of the site. tomsteve 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Pellow Posted December 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2015 OK, I have some follow-up questions. There has been lots of information here about smaller drill bits and the smallest saw blade that I have heard about is 3/0. But, I found an Olson chart that says that a 3/0 blade requires a 1/32 inch hole. I found out on the project that started this thread that a 1/32 inch hole can be seen. Is the Olson chart wrong? Are there smaller blades and, if so where? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustLarry Posted December 22, 2015 Report Share Posted December 22, 2015 (edited) The link will show size of bit for the different Flying Dutchman blades. And at the bottom of the page is info on the mini drill bits. Looks like they are available for your area. https://www.mikesworkshop.com/blades.htm Larry Edited December 22, 2015 by JustLarry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappile Posted December 22, 2015 Report Share Posted December 22, 2015 (edited) The link will show size of bit for the different Flying Dutchman blades. And at the bottom of the page is info on the mini drill bits. Looks like they are available for your area. https://www.mikesworkshop.com/blades.htm Larry Frank, if you scroll down on that page until you see the "New Spiral" blades (about 3/4ths of the way down the page) , it is the only section that lists the 3/0 spiral blade. It also says the drill size recommended is a #70. Keep in mind these are spiral blades and if you have not used them they take some getting use to. Some, like me, love them, others hate them. Anyway, that #70 blade is .028" dia or .7112mm in dia. a little smaller than 1/32 which is .07934mm. Edited December 22, 2015 by Scrappile Lucky2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky2 Posted December 22, 2015 Report Share Posted December 22, 2015 Frank, I use these small drill bits quite a bit, they are an invaluable resource. I can use them on my full size drill presses without using any collets, maybe you should try yours to see if they will work without the collets also. One thing though, make sure that your drillpress is set at its lowest speed if you try this. Len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Pellow Posted December 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 22, 2015 OK, based on 'JustLarry' and 'Scrappie''s recommendations, I have ordered some #70 Twist Bits and some Flying Dutchman New Spiral 3/0 blades. I hope that they will do the job for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsteve Posted December 22, 2015 Report Share Posted December 22, 2015 (edited) an olsen rt 2/0 is .022" wide. a 1/32 bit is .03125". a number 73 bit is .024 and a 74 is .0225. personally i look at the blade size and then go to my drill bit chart to determine which bit to use. now if someone could make them small drill bits so i dont lose them...... oops...heres the chart i use http://www.gearhob.com/eng/design/drill_eng.htm Edited December 22, 2015 by tomsteve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Pellow Posted December 31, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 I received the #70 twist bits and Flying Dutchman New Spiral #3/0 blades from Mike's Workshop very soon after placing my (international) order. Thanks Mike. Today I gave them a try. As others have said, the spiral blades take some getting used to. I find that it is difficult to cut a line that does not wobble. However, after about an hours practice, I managed to cut some decent embedded lines. I then showed them to my wife and she could not tell where I had drilled #70 size entry holes. Again, I thank everyone for their help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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