Old Mill & Old Barn -Experiments with Spiral Blades and with Staining

[Frank Pellow]

I'm having trouble deciding on the stains to use on this piece.  For me, the sawing part if this new hobby is easy but the painting and finishing is difficult.  It's taking me almost as much elapsed time to decide on the stains as it took to do the sawing.  I resolve to settle on the stains today.

 

I'm attaching a picture of the likely stains that I will use together with a mock-up of the backing and the frame..

Edited January 6, 2016 by Frank Pellow

[heppnerguy]

I will be interested in seeing the results of your staining the piece. I probably would use an acrylic watered down paint that would be almost only a hint of color. I have also used food coloring to color a piece. Not sure I would, personally, want to mess with something that took me so long to cut. I admire your continuing effort though. I also do not think it really matters if one is faster or  even as fast at cutting a piece as others may be. Starting a project as complex as this one is, is a tribute to you. Trying to cut something faster than you are comfortable with can be a big mistake and could cause you to ruin an effort, for no good reason. Just keep up the good work and work at your own pace and you will be happy with the end results. I cut this one and it  took me a month working every day. Now does that make you feel better? I knew it would not, and the previous statement is not even true, as i have yet to cut it. Just have fun, my friend

 

Dick

heppnerguy 

[Frank Pellow]

Dick, I thank you for the advice.  You could very well be right that this piece might be better not stained.  But, this project is all about experimenting, so I am going to go ahead and experiment with stain.  The stains that I have now finally chosen are somewhat subtle and dull and the wood grain will certainly remain obvious.

 

About speed, I did not ever hurry the project and was always comfortable and alert.  Just as I do with "regular" sawing, I thought about each move before I made it.  I am definitely aware of the danger of rushing things.  Having said that, I am still interested in knowing how long an experienced scroller should expect to take to saw this piece. 

 

I agree, that this should be fun -and it is!

[Frank Pellow]

The piece has now been stained and framed.

 

I first VERY CAREFULLY hand sanded both the front and the back  using a Festool Granat foam-backed pad. (first photo below)

 

I considered chickening out a not staining the piece at all but, in the end, proceeded to stain it. (2nd photo below shows the piece after sanding and before staining)

 

After a lot of experimentation and mixing  to obtain the desired shades the piece was stained using Saman water-based stains.  I cut and stained a backing piece out of the white oak veneer as was used for the mill.  The mill piece was glued to the backing using Lepage 'No More Clamps' white wood glue. I run the grain of the backing piece in the opposite direction to the mill piece.  Three coats of Saman Satin Varnish were then applied.

 

I made the frame out of quarter-sawn white oak.  It's the same simple  frame design that has been used by woodworkers in my family for approximately 110 years.

 

The end result can be seen in the 3rd photo below.

 

I am happy with it.  I thank Sasho Janevski (neptun) for the design and I am certain that I will be attempting more of his designs in the future.

 

[Frank Pellow]

OK, that worked out well.

 

Now, its time to add a companion piece and to try out some different spiral blades.

 

After an extensive search, I chose one of the barns from Charles Dearing's Old Barn Book #4.  I'm going to use the same type of plywood and frame that I used on the Old Mill.  There are some large holes in this piece and I am going to try larger #3 spiral blades (again Flying Dutchman) in those holes.

 

I've only started (as can be seen in the attached photo) and so, far, things are going well.  I find the my degree  control of the #3 blades to be about the same as with the #3/0 blades.  I can cut faster with them, so they are worth using.  One thing that surprised me is that the blades seem to be just about as brittle as the #3/0 blades.  I have already broken two of them and, in both cases, they broke when I was going slowly and exerting minimal pressure.

Edited February 4, 2016 by Frank Pellow

[Scrappile]

Going to be a beautiful piece.  I've gone to use larger blades in larger areas sometimes, just so I won't break so many blades.  So far I have not found one that I am as comfortable with as I am with the 3/0.   I do like to use a 1/16" bit to drill holes in the areas large enough for it to fit.  I lose a lot of the 3/0 blades threading them through the small holes.  So easy to bend one and once bent they are not going to last much longer.

[Frank Pellow]

Paul, my hope was to break fewer blades and I am glad that is true for you.  But, so far, it has not been true for me (but my experiment has only just started).

[TripleJScroller]

That barn stresses me out just looking at it...lol.  Would be a fun challenge though.  I mostly use the 3/0 and 2/0 spirals and I break plenty of them, however at times I've tried to use bit larger blade like a 3 or even a 5 and I still manage to break them.  Maybe not quite as much as the smaller ones though.  Keep up the great work though, I've been enjoying all your projects.

[LarryEA]

I compliment you on the great job you have done. Beautiful cutting.

[bandaideman]

Nicely done I started using a spiral today AGAIN. Must be improving no broken blades but did not always stay where I wanted. Well will keep trying

[redwine]

Frank, you are doing a great job on the "Old Mill" and you have received a lot of very good ideas and advise from the crew! I agree with Jay about using different size blades as you work along. Save the 0/3 for the very fine and close quarter cutting and use the larger blades for the long runs and wider sections of the pattern. Also, and this may sound strange, ever so often stop and turn the project to a different angle which will use a different part of the blade. You will notice the difference of the cutting like a  new blade. Use all of the blade this way and you won't be stopping so often to replace a "dull" blade. If you use BB plywood you have to do this as this wood and the adhesive used to bond the plys together is hard on spiral blades.

 Stay with it you will have a portrait to be proud of!

 Erv

[heppnerguy]

  Frank,

    You did a fabulous job with the staining. It is light enough so that it is really only a hint of color and not at all dominating.  I did my first 'requested' item using a spiral blade. I have to say that I am not completely happy with the results but if I do not keep trying to learn it, how am I ever going to get to a point of satisfaction in using them. You are a much more dedicated guy then am I and your work shows it. It is truly a joy to watch you  go from start to finish with a project. One of these days soon, I hope to go to Scrappiles shop (Paul) and pick up some clues and advice on using the spiral blade. Keep up your great work, my friend and I will continue to follow your efforts with anticipation.

 

Dick

heppnerguy

[Frank Pellow]

First of all, I would like to thank Joshua (TripleJScoller), Larry, Dan (bandaideman), Ervin (redwine), and Dick (heppnerguy) for your kind words and advice.

 

Carrying on with work on the Old Barn, there is also lots of opportunity to work with very small drill bits and very thin saw blades.  I'm attaching a photo of the bottom left of the work where things get very detailed.  I continue to break lots of blades and I am starting to wonder if that will always be the case with me on patterns of this type.

[Scrappile]

I go through a lot of blades and it is just part of doing this kind of work as far as I am concerned.  That is why they can be bought by the gross I guess.  I wish they sold the little bits by the gross also, doesn't take a lot to break one of those either.

[Frank Pellow]

Paul, I guess that I should consider myself lucky that I have not yet broken any of the #70 bits that I got from Mike.  So far, I have drill about 50 holes and all has gone well.

[lake9guy]

Update:

 

I've now worked on the piece for about five hours and am happy about the progress.  I have broken 5 blades and have only 7 left so that is a bit of a concern. 

 

Taking the warnings posted above about not finishing up cutting in the centre of the piece into account, I have cut around three edges and plan to end up in the bottom left.

 

LarryEA, about the 90 degree cuts:  The best thing about a scene like this is that there a few such angles.  I have found that, treating the blade as sort of a file and going very slowly, I can manage clean up an angle and make it appear to be 90 (or whatever) degrees..

[lake9guy]

Thanks for sharing your work-in-progress.  Truly awesome results-- also appreciate you including the time invested and comments about 90 degree cuts (and lack of them). Edward AKA lake9guy

[stoney]

Paul, my hope was to break fewer blades and I am glad that is true for you.  But, so far, it has not been true for me (but my experiment has only just started).

I have done quite a bit of cutting with spirals doing custom portrait work.   I can tell you from my experience that larger blades both flat and spirals in larger sizes have lasted much longer without breaking.   Looking at the pattern in your experiment the smallest spiral I would have used would have been a #1 Flying Dutchman new spiral.   Most of that pattern could be cut with as large as a

#5 spiral blade with no loss of detail.   What I have found is the larger blades withstand the flexing and twisting longer, and the squeezing in the blade clamps for a longer period of time.   To me it stands to reason that with a larger blade there is more material to absorb the fatique created in its use.   JMHO   

Edited January 25, 2016 by stoney

[Frank Pellow]

Al (Stoney), I don't have any #1 spiral blades, therefore I am using (and breaking several) #3/0 blades for the small stuff on this pattern -and there is a lot of small stuff on this pattern.

 

I appreciate your advice about the sizes that you would use and I guess that I had better order a wider variety of Flying Dutchman New Spiral blades

Edited January 26, 2016 by Frank Pellow

[stoney]

You are very welcome Frank.   Yea buy some of the larger size spiral blades and see if they do the job for you.   My main scroll saw is a Hegner 22v multi-max and I can't get any amount of fretwork cut with the tiny blades like you have been using without a lot of breakage.   I can cut much faster with the larger blades and still maintain the amount of detail required. 

[Frank Pellow]

The sawing has almost been completed.  I haven't actually counted the holes, but I estimate that there will have been about 400 of them once sawing is complete.  If anyone actually knows how many holes there are in this pattern, I would like to hear from them with a number.

 

I have managed to use #3 blades on about one third of the holes but have had to resort to the only other size of spiral blades that I have on hand, that is #3/0, for two thirds of the holes.   I haven't broken any more of the #3 blades since I broke to two early on.  But I have broken about 15 of the #3/0 blades.

 

I have ordered some #1 New Spiral Flying Dutchman blades and will eventually  try them with another pattern.   

 

 

[Frank Pellow]

Completed (part 1 of 2)

 

The Barn "art" has now been completed and framed.

 

The first photo below shows the front of the piece after I had applied Varsol to  the pattern then removed the pattern.  I then let everything dry well and removed (most of) the glue with a light sanding.  But, some of dried glue just didn't want to be removed and I was afraid to sand any more in case I were to sand right through the thin oak veneer.  So I flipped the whole thing over and made the back the front.

 

Like with the mill, I mounted the panel onto a background panel of the same material.  I used stain (as well as a bit of paint) on portions of the foreground panel. 

 

With the Mill, I had simply used flat black paint on the background panel.  This time, with the Barn, I decided to try staining and painting different parts of the background panel as well.  The second attached photo shows both panels after they have been stained/painted.

Edited February 5, 2016 by Frank Pellow

[Frank Pellow]

Completed (part 2 of 2)

 

Like with the Old Mill, the Old Barn is stained with a variety of Saman stains and blends of same then, after assembly, finished with a couple of coats of satin varnish.

 

I made the frame out of figured white oak.  The style of the frame is the "standard" Rosseter/Pellow style that I have talked about elsewhere.

 

I found that the Old Barn looks very different in different light and am attaching three different photos that illustrate this.

Edited February 3, 2016 by Frank Pellow

[Frank Pellow]

QUESTION ABOUT STAINING STYLE
 
I looked for examples of other scroll-saw scenes similar to the Old Mill and the Old Barn where this type of staining has been done.

As far as I have been able to tell, I may have come up with a slightly different artistic technique. There are many different scroll saw "drawn" scenes that I can find on the internet, but none of them have been stained different colours. All the ones I can find are either two shades of wood or a wood foreground and background of a single colour.

I would appreciate hearing from anyone who can point to others who done something similar and/or who can confirm that I have hit upon something a bit different.

[TripleJScroller]

Frank I've personally not seen anyone else use stains quite the way you have, though they are probably out there.  I really like what you've done with both of these projects.  Personally I've never done any kind of coloring in my work and until recently never really thought about it.  Seeing what you've done though sure has the wheels turning, I may have to try something a little more interesting soon.  Thanks for sharing.