New Scroll Saw Worker - Need Help

[Raccoon]

So before I start, just going to give a little background about myself to potentially answer a few question. 

Firstly, I recently just bought a new Scroll Saw, http://www.homedepot.com/p/Ryobi-1-2-Amp-16-in-Corded-Scroll-Saw-SC165VS/205419917?cm_mmc=Shopping%7cTHD%7cG%7c0%7cG-BASE-PLA-D25T-PowerTools-SKU%7c&gclid=Cj0KEQiAl5u2BRC6yszC1_75v5wBEiQAD-hdz3blPJAdwZpc6K53OYMO4uTpczRnBcuHYV6pfWdpqiUaAmWd8P8HAQ&gclsrc=aw.ds This one to be the exact model. Just wanted something simple, (Cheap comes with that) and just something to make small things with, had no real intentions of getting into real delicate or precise designs. This is basically my first time using a scroll saw, I took a few years of Wood Shop in highschool and only used it once (created a name plate) and since then I have lost all knowledge or "skill" I had with it. I'm comfortable with any other machines, band saws, table saws, lathes, etc etc. But when it comes to the scroll saw, I just lack anything and quite frankly, am nervous to use one, which is weird since it's probably the safest machine to work with.

Anyways, to my issue. I just seem to can't cut anything without a blade snapping in half (Are blade breaks suppose to sound like gun shots? God, the first one scared me like no other) and whenever I go for a cut, it just doesn't seem right. Chances are, I'm assuming I'm doing something wrong with the tension, the blades I'm using and the wood I am using all together to create me problem. But with such little knowledge of the scroll saw, I wanted to have people personally respond with their inputs to help me (I've been watching a LOT of videos on the scrollsaw and have been reading a lot, but answers direct are always more informative. 

Here are some pictures of the saw,






The saw has a knob to change the speed, but has no numbers or way of saying this is that speed and this is that speed, just gotta eye ball it in terms of all the way down, in the middle and all the way up.

The machine also has a knob for tightening which I always find myself not sure when enough tightening is enough (I aim for that "C" pitch sound and have even played the noise from others on Youtube to mine to compare to find the perfect tone, yet still find everything out of wack)

Here are the blades I'm using, just picked up some as Home Depot hoping for the best, didn't do too much research into them.



The wood I was using, Pre cut Poplar from Home Depot. I've broken two blades on this, one broke right at the bottom, the other right at the top. Both were from cuts that were pretty straight or were slightly curved, no crazy speeds or turns or anything like that. Everything was also very shaky, just didn't have that "clean, smooth, everything is going good" feeling with it during any cuts, and this is going less than an inch into the wood. Not sure if this is common with scroll saws, or if not. 

I'm pretty sure the issue is the type of wood I'm using + the blades I'm using with a mix of an issue with tension/work speed so would love if someone could confirm or answer if this is possibly the issue. Didn't think the wood, which isn't thick at all, under 1/2 could cause so much issues. D:

The blades broken, 

The 10TPI from the blue package above (Pretty sure this is the wrong blade type for this type of work)

 Broke from the bottom

Blade that came preinstalled on the machine in packaging, Believe it is 15 TPI.

Broke from the top


Sorry for the rather long post and all the pictures, just wanted to make sure everything was clear in description to help out in explaining.


If anyone has an answer, any advice, or anything that can help, would love to hear. I know the only way to get better is with practice and knowledge so am looking forward to that. Just want to make sure I'm practicing the right way and not making a silly mistake.

Thanks.
 

[Clayton717]

Hi Michael. 

  Welcome to the Village and to the world of scrolling. It sounds to me you got the idea of how much tension to put on the blade(by the sound). but if the blade breaking sounds like a gun going off you may have a bit to much tension.  When you pluck the back of the blade with your finger nail you will hear the note. If they are snapping shortly after starting to cut, my question would be are you pushing to hard and to fast. Let the saw do the work slow steady feed pressure. to much pressure and the blade will bow and flex and cut on an angle and going to fast won't let it clear the wood and overheat, both will cause to much stress on the blade causing it to break.

 

I don't think it has anything to do with the wood. I cut lots of poplar. My advise would be to get some different blades, most of us use Flying Dutchman blades or Olsen. Here is a link http://www.woodenteddybearonline.com/x/home.php?cat=87. they sell both. I personally use Flying Dutchman blades. I rarely cut at full speed on my saw. most of the time just a little more than half way, all depends on what I am cutting. This is my advise/opinion I'm sure there will be more members adding their advise soon.

 

Does your saw take pinned ends only or will it take plain end blades too?

 

Don't get frustrated just take your time and keep practicing, we all started there.

[Raccoon]

Hi Michael. 

  Welcome to the Village and to the world of scrolling. It sounds to me you got the idea of how much tension to put on the blade(by the sound). but if the blade breaking sounds like a gun going off you may have a bit to much tension.  When you pluck the back of the blade with your finger nail you will hear the note. If they are snapping shortly after starting to cut, my question would be are you pushing to hard and to fast. Let the saw do the work slow steady feed pressure. to much pressure and the blade will bow and flex and cut on an angle and going to fast won't let it clear the wood and overheat, both will cause to much stress on the blade causing it to break.

 

I don't think it has anything to do with the wood. I cut lots of poplar. My advise would be to get some different blades, most of us use Flying Dutchman blades or Olsen. Here is a link http://www.woodenteddybearonline.com/x/home.php?cat=87. they sell both. I personally use Flying Dutchman blades. I rarely cut at full speed on my saw. most of the time just a little more than half way, all depends on what I am cutting. This is my advise/opinion I'm sure there will be more members adding their advise soon.

 

Does your saw take pinned ends only or will it take plain end blades too?

 

Don't get frustrated just take your time and keep practicing, we all started there.

 

 

 

Going to try using a bit less tension next time around, going to go for that "C" note but also go for a slight movement all around the blade when pressed slightly as I've read from others. 

 

The saw itself came installed with pin-end blades, and those are what I've bought, but I believe it can also take no pin blades as well, will check and confirm. 

 

Question about blades is can using too big of a blade on the wood I was using, the Poplar, be more counterproductive? For example using the 10 TPI or 15 TPI, should I opt for a smaller blade/more tpi, or am I just over thinking this? 

 

I push pretty slow, and usually run the slaw at start above the lowest speed or a slight bit under medium, not sure if I should increase or not. I know I'm going to be breaking blades as I progress, just want to make sure I'm breaking them the way they're suppose to be broken, rather than them breaking from an easily fixed mistake like wrong blade/wood/speed/ etc.

 

 

Another thing is my main use for the saw is making small objects, really no more than an inch on all angles. Why I choose a scroll saw and not a band saw, since the small cuts would bring my fingers too close. But with the blade breaking so fast, so easily on hardly any cut times, making me wonder. 

 

 

Thanks.

[Chiloquinruss]

I am also a newbie but have haunted every video these fine craftsman here have posted.  I think the advice above is the most important and that is:  LET THE SAW DO THE WORK  It is natural to force the wood into the device, I do it with all of the rest of my wood working equipment.  This is WRONG for a scroll saw.  Also slow the speed down as it makes it so much easier to follow any pattern simple or complex.  To my knowledge I have not broken a single blade because of the substrate, only trying to force the cuts. 

 

You have come to the right place for answers tough, these folks really know their stuff. 

 

Most important is to have fun, I am.  Russ

[jerry1939]

Welcome Aboard Sir,

 

I would totally echo Clayton & add something.  I rarely break a blade.  Here is my 1 1/2 cents worth;

 

All the woodworking tools you mentioned having experience with, cut 100% of the time.  Envision the crankshaft in your car.  If you look at it from the clockwise end, the piston goes down when connected on the right side.  (This is when your blade goes down)(Across the bottom & top of the circle, the blade slows down, stops & reverses direction.)  A SCROLLSAW DOES  NOT CUT 100% OF THE TIME !!

 

Try sawing in slow motion & practice finding out how slowly you can feed the wood.  My impression of what you described is that you might be putting more of a load on the blade than it was ever designed for.

 

Hope this helps Friend.

 

jerry

[Jim McDonald]

Breaking blades is one of the frustrating parts for a beginner.  They will make you jump back, and I have found that saws with rear tension knobs seem to be the noisiest. Like was said above, a quality blade will help.  Hardware store blades have always been a last resort for me.  (Have to be out of EVERYTHING)  I have cut with Olsen, Flying Dutchman and Pegas.  All good quality blades and I suggest you try different ones to find one you are most comfortable with.  I found the Pegas blade very aggressive when i was a new cutter, but now am more comfortable with that brand."z", you have hit most of the directions and problems you are likely to encounter.

[Lucky2]

Michael, have you ever heard the saying; that practice makes perfect? Well, that's what it's going to take, you're going to have to put some time in at the saw. Once you've spent some time cutting, you'll get used to the ins and outs of your saw and how it should sound. By doing this, you'll get used to how to set the tension on your blade just by feel, and by flicking the saw blade to the right tone. But, it will all take time and practice. With your blades breaking where they are, I'm wondering if your blades is plumb to the blade holders. If the blade holder isn't 90 degrees to the blade when you set the tension, then the blade has uneven pressure at the points where they break. Make sure that the blade is running plumb to the blade holders, and the table and you should have better luck.

Len

[Clayton717]

The 2 blades sizes I use the most are the Flying Dutchman scroll reverse # 5 which has 13 teeth per inch and the # 7 which has 10 T.P.I.  I use these the most often when cutting the harder 3/4 thick woods for my intarsia. When doing fretwork / portraits I will use the # 5 and smaller blades.

[JimErn]

I'm new too, got my saw from Santa, she shops at Home Depot it seems, but the Porter-Cable.

I was breaking blades too, seemingly no rhyme or reason to why or when.  I am also cutting the Home Depot poplar sticks.

On my saw, when you do not have a blade in it, the bottom blade clamp (top one too) will move forward and back (as you are facing the machine), pivoting.  I found that I was inserting the pinless blade into the bottom clamp where it was not straight with the clamp, vertical.  

Then I learned to use the wood to "push" the blade into the top clamp and just as it hits the back side of the clamp, hold it there and tighten the clamp.

Set the tension, and start the saw being ready to shut it down if it breaks, so far so good, I have not (knock on wood) broken a blade in a while now.  I set my speed about 3/4, but after reading this thread I will lower it and see if that helps any.

The blades I got from Home Depot are average I guess, I ordered Flying Dutchman Ultra Reverse, and wow what a difference the blade makes.

Edited February 21, 2016 by JimErn

[WayneMahler]

Welcome to the wonderful world  of scrolling. I have found the blades that come with the saws are pretty cheap, like the ones you buy at the big box stores. I personally use Flying Dutchmen blades. Two thing you want to look at, is the blade at 90 degrees with the table ? A small square will answer this. Then check the speed of the blade and your feed. Let the blade do the the work, if you force the wood through the blade it will over heat the blade and break. Blade tension is also critical. They say when you twing it with your finger nail it should sound like a high c note. I'm used to just grabbing mine to see if it is right. Be patient and take your time and enjoy it. 

[NC Scroller]

You have gotten some great tips here.  The only thing I do differently is I like to run my saw at full speed unless I can cutting tiny delicate areas.  I find running the saw at full speed deduces the tendency to push the wood.

[Bandito]

I have an older craftsman (maybe 13 years). The problem that I started having was that the blade clamp screw ends were marred from use, causing the blade to move in the clamp as I was tightening it in place. To fix this I filled the end of the clamp screws flat. This helped a lot with putting a blade in. Maybe your blades weren't completely straight from one end to the other causing strain on the ends under tension. And if you eventually buy some of the higher quallity blades you will notice right away just how much sharper they are. With the FD and Olsen blades if you have to push to get them to cut chances are they need to be replaced. Good Luck!

[Scrappile]

Been scrolling for a couple years now and still break blades.  Not nearly as many as I use to when I started, but I still do.  That is why I buy them by the gross.  Most places that sell scroll saw accessories, like Wooden Teddy Bear, Sloan's, Mike's Workshop, sell a sample pack of a verity of blades.  I purchased a pack of them when I started and I think it was well worth it for helping me try different blades, and finding what works for me for different types of scroll sawing.  I still like to experiment with different types and sizes  of blades. And remember it takes different types of blades for different types of scroll saw projects.

[kywoodmaster]

Looks like all the bases have been covered here. I will add that I have been scrolling for 16 years on and off and I still break blades. Buy some good blades Olsen Flying Dutchman or Pegasus and give it a try. Good luck the saw dust is addictive.

[ike]

from what I see the blades shown above are junk. I use olson's my 2nd choice is FD blades not much difference just a preference.I  haven't broke but one blade in the last 2 years mayee longer than that. the blade makes the difference but even with a good blade if you push the blade they won't last I very seldom use any speed above  # 5 on the dw 788 the top speed is a #8

[Raccoon]

Thanks for all the advice everyone, going to try a few things today to make sure everything within the machine is running right.

Going to make sure the machine and the blade are all aligned as well as work on my tension with speed + pushing the wood.


Another question regarding blades, regardless of the makes. Can using a bigger, less TPI blade on thinner, smaller wood cause more problems than using a more fitting blade like one with more TPI? I'm pretty sure using a small blade on thick wood is a no go, but what about a thick blade on thin wood?
 

 

Planning on getting some higher quality blades in the future, after I run through all my current ones as I practice and tinker with things. 

Thanks everyone!

[amazingkevin]

Thanks for all the advice everyone, going to try a few things today to make sure everything within the machine is running right.

 

Going to make sure the machine and the blade are all aligned as well as work on my tension with speed + pushing the wood.

 

 

Another question regarding blades, regardless of the makes. Can using a bigger, less TPI blade on thinner, smaller wood cause more problems than using a more fitting blade like one with more TPI? I'm pretty sure using a small blade on thick wood is a no go, but what about a thick blade on thin wood?

 

 

Planning on getting some higher quality blades in the future, after I run through all my current ones as I practice and tinker with things. 

 

Thanks everyone!

All good tips , Let us know the outcome!

[NC Scroller]

Thanks for all the advice everyone, going to try a few things today to make sure everything within the machine is running right.

 

Going to make sure the machine and the blade are all aligned as well as work on my tension with speed + pushing the wood.

 

 

Another question regarding blades, regardless of the makes. Can using a bigger, less TPI blade on thinner, smaller wood cause more problems than using a more fitting blade like one with more TPI? I'm pretty sure using a small blade on thick wood is a no go, but what about a thick blade on thin wood?

 

 

Planning on getting some higher quality blades in the future, after I run through all my current ones as I practice and tinker with things. 

 

Thanks everyone!

 

To be successful you really need a number of different size blades.  For me and the type work I do my go to size is a #5 but I have blades from #2/0 to #9. The problem with bigger teeth is they will cut more aggressively and could break delicate areas in your project.  The larger teeth blades also do not make tight turns as well as a smaller tooth blade. 

[Denny Knappen]

All very good suggestions.  Blade use and number depends on wood thickness but also hardness.

[Bill WIlson]

Looking at the pics in your OP, it appears as though those are pin end blades?  Is this correct?  If so, I would guess that the blades that came with the saw are of poor quality and very brittle.  Pin end blades are usually much more robust than the smaller, plain end blades.  It's generally much less likely for them to break.  As has been suggested, buying good quality blades such as Flying Dutchman or Olson will make a world of difference.

 

As to blade size, relevant to material being cut, the rule of thumb is the thicker/harder the material, the bigger the blade.  You want to use the blade that gives you the best combination of control, cutting speed and finish.  Using a large, aggressive blade on thin material will cut very fast (relatively speaking) but may make it harder for you to control the cut and stay on the line.  You will also notice that the cut quality will suffer, with a rougher edge and more tearout.  This may or may not be an issue.  It will take some trial & error with a few different types of blades to find the sweet spot for what you want to do.  Blades are relatively cheap, generally running $2-$3 per dozen.  Mike Moorlach used to offer a sample pack of different sizes and types of FD blades.  I'm not sure if the Wooden Teddy Bear has the same offer available or not.  That was a great way of getting a variety without buying a ton of blades you might not use.

 

Good luck and have fun making sawdust!

[Young_Scroller]

I mostly use olsen blades because they are easily available to me, whenever I buy blades I have never really paid any attention to tpi but maybe I should I have never really found that very important, I mostly use #2 and #5 blades and sometimes larger for thick wood, Another reason you could be breaking blades is if the wood you are using is too thick, I mainly use 1/8inch to 3/4 inch any thicker than that tends to be hard to cut

[tomsteve]

i didnt thoroughly read all the replies, but what i read had great suggestions and i just wanted to add one, but doesnt pertain to blade breakage:

if possible, bolt/screw the saw to your workbench, preferrably with some rubber spacers of some sort between saw and bench.

[ubgoofy2003]

The blades you show are not good blades. I would suggest Flying Dutchmen blades or Olsen. They are both quality blades & you need to practice with the different size blades. Mikes Workshop used to send a sample pack to get started with. Don't know if the Wooden Teddy Bear continues with that service, since they took over Mikes business. Good luck.

[WoodCutter]

I have a Porter-Cable that gives me very little problems.  I started with a Craftsman and got lots of info from the web.  The first I did was to replace the plastic center piece with a custom metal one.  Gave her a tune up, meaning squared everything, filed set screws for holding blades.

I have not broken a blade in over a year.  I use FD blades mostly FDUR#5 from Wooden Teddy Bear.  When changing blades I remove center piece for a good view and be sure bottom mount is same angle as top mount.  I drilled the top tension handle crossways and put a bolt in it for better leverage.   I use medium speed 90% of the time just changing up or done for fine work.

 

I hope that this helps you out a little bit.   like everyone says,  Practice  practice practice. 

 

Good Luck,  Bill