Free Proxxon DS 115/E Scroll Saw

[hotshot]

Here is the deal.  This scrollsaw is like new, kind of looks cool.  From just a casual observation, it looks like it might even be decent.  It has an interesting design, and even has a blade guide which I've never seen on a scroll saw.  But . . . in practice, it is utter crap.  You can see my review and pictures in the scroll saw reviews section of this site.  Here is the Amazon.com page for this product:  https://www.amazon.com/Proxxon-37088-Scroll-Colors-Vary/dp/B0017NUBMQ?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B0017NUBMQ&linkCode=as2&redirect=true&ref_=as_li_tf_tl&tag=scrollsawreviews03-20  See how the saw works here:  

 

That said, I know a few of you might be curious.  Also, I can see how some of you that go to shows could take this along and put it on your display so people can sort of see what a scroll saw is.  If I went to shows, I would definitely do this.  This thing is very small and superlight, and might make a good decoration for you.

 

Here is the stipulations to this gift.  

     1.  You can't be new to this hobby.  I refuse to ruin you on the hobby because you get a piece of crap, and believe that this is what scrollsawing is about.  Scrollsawing is awesome, and a poor tool will suck the joy right out of the hobby.  

     2.  You have to commit to at least using it two hours, then writing up a review in the reviews section on this site.  Who knows, you might even like the saw, the stuff you cut might lend itself better to this tool.

     3.  Since I'm paying shipping, you have to be in the continental U.S.

 

If you buy into all that, I have already packed up the saw, and am ready to pay the shipping to send this to you . . . before my wife finds out that I ever bought it . . . . 

 

First victim to take me up on this wins.

 

--------Randy

Edited July 17, 2016 by hotshot

[dgman]

Thanks for the offer Randy, but I think I'll pass.

[MTCowpoke22]

Thanks, but no Thanks. I'd rather you have to explain to your wife than me having to explain to mine.

[WayneMahler]

Interesting offer Randy. I hope someone takes you up on it. This is the first scroll saw I seen with a miter gauge going by the photo on Amazon.  

[hotshot]

Interesting offer Randy. I hope someone takes you up on it. This is the first scroll saw I seen with a miter gauge going by the photo on Amazon.  

 

It does have a miter gauge, and another straight guide.  If someone was in soft wood and using spirals, in theory, this would allow perfectly straight cuts.

[orangeman]

Randy,

 

Do you have any idea what the shipping cost is?

 

I returned a Hawk scrollsaw maybe 7  years ago due to excessive vibration and the cost was $90 back then!

 

It might be better to give it to the thrift store and take a tax deduction

 

bb

[125 CSL]

I'm still new.

Watched the video. The miter part looks cool. I might be able to figure out something like that for my current saw. Don't like the blade change set up. I do wonder what value that foot thing and being able to change the head height would make in cutting.

[amazingkevin]

Here is the deal.  This scrollsaw is like new, kind of looks cool.  From just a casual observation, it looks like it might even be decent.  It has an interesting design, and even has a blade guide which I've never seen on a scroll saw.  But . . . in practice, it is utter crap.  You can see my review and pictures in the scroll saw reviews section of this site.  Here is the Amazon.com page for this product:  https://www.amazon.com/Proxxon-37088-Scroll-Colors-Vary/dp/B0017NUBMQ?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B0017NUBMQ&linkCode=as2&redirect=true&ref_=as_li_tf_tl&tag=scrollsawreviews03-20  See how the saw works here:  

 

That said, I know a few of you might be curious.  Also, I can see how some of you that go to shows could take this along and put it on your display so people can sort of see what a scroll saw is.  If I went to shows, I would definitely do this.  This thing is very small and superlight, and might make a good decoration for you.

 

Here is the stipulations to this gift.  

     1.  You can't be new to this hobby.  I refuse to ruin you on the hobby because you get a piece of crap, and believe that this is what scrollsawing is about.  Scrollsawing is awesome, and a poor tool will suck the joy right out of the hobby.  

     2.  You have to commit to at least using it two hours, then writing up a review in the reviews section on this site.  Who knows, you might even like the saw, the stuff you cut might lend itself better to this tool.

     3.  Since I'm paying shipping, you have to be in the continental U.S.

 

If you buy into all that, I have already packed up the saw, and am ready to pay the shipping to send this to you . . . before my wife finds out that I ever bought it . . . . 

 

First victim to take me up on this wins.

 

--------Randy

You often wonder how somethings make it out of the factory.They spent oddles of money designing the machine etc

[NC Scroller]

You often wonder how somethings make it out of the factory.They spent oddles of money designing the machine etc

I think the problem with most products like this is a bunch of engineers designed the machine but not a single one of them were experienced scrollers.

[fastfreddy]

I think the problem with most products like this is a bunch of engineers designed the machine but not a single one of them were experienced scrollers.

Excellent point stated.

[heppnerguy]

I think it looks like a good addition to any shop. I would be willing to give this a try, If it turned out that I did not like it I would pay it forward with free shipping too.. If it is available I would like a shot at it

 

Dick

heppnerguy

[Doug]

Randy

 

Sorry I am not interested but I have another deal for you.  I bought a Hawk BM220 last summer for $1,150.  Used for less than 10 hours so like new condition and I will sell for $500 and you pay the shipping or pick it up in Lincoln, NE.  I had a larger table top made for my EX21 which I really like and just could not come to like the BM220 table top.  Maybe Roly will see this and be interested.

[hotshot]

Randy

 

Sorry I am not interested but I have another deal for you.  I bought a Hawk BM220 last summer for $1,150.  Used for less than 10 hours so like new condition and I will sell for $500 and you pay the shipping or pick it up in Lincoln, NE.  I had a larger table top made for my EX21 which I really like and just could not come to like the BM220 table top.  Maybe Roly will see this and be interested.

Holy moley, I would die to get my hands on a new Hawk. I would take you up on that in a minute, if I had the funds.  If you would have made that offer a few weeks back, before the tax man made it to my door, I would be reviewing the new Hawk, and owe taxes.

 

But, since your here, please give us a good comparison of how the blade clamps work versus the EX.  The clamps are a weak area on the EX as multiple folks, including me, have worn out the threads.  I replace my bottom Aluminum clamp last week.

 

Also, I couldn't tell from the promotional video if the arm raised high enough to feed the blade back through reasonably thick stock.  That is the one area where the EX shines over the dw788.  It didn't look like the arm raised enough.  Running on full throttle, how is the vibration compared to the EX running full out?

 

I am so freaking jealous, eventually, I'll get my hands on a Hawk. 

 

---------Randy

Edited July 18, 2016 by hotshot

[hotshot]

I think it looks like a good addition to any shop. I would be willing to give this a try, If it turned out that I did not like it I would pay it forward with free shipping too.. If it is available I would like a shot at it

 

Dick

heppnerguy

You got it, coming your way as soon as you PM me your mailing address

[WigWag Workshop]

My feeling on this tool, I think it is good for model builders like myself.  I am model builder, and been wanting to get one of these.  I do 1/87 1/64 1/32 and 1/24 scale modeling, and this is the perfect tool for scratching build in balsa and basswood.  However, I don't think it's an advantage with styrene, which is a popular material in model building.

[WigWag Workshop]

I think it looks like a good addition to any shop. I would be willing to give this a try, If it turned out that I did not like it I would pay it forward with free shipping too.. If it is available I would like a shot at it

 

Dick

heppnerguy

 

If your not happy, I would be willing to pay shipping next in line

[heppnerguy]

If your not happy, I would be willing to pay shipping next in line

 

I will keep you in mind, should I decide it will not work well for me... I am anxious to test it out and see how it performs.

 

Dick

heppnerguy

[Doug]

Holy moley, I would die to get my hands on a new Hawk. I would take you up on that in a minute, if I had the funds.  If you would have made that offer a few weeks back, before the tax man made it to my door, I would be reviewing the new Hawk, and owe taxes.

 

But, since your here, please give us a good comparison of how the blade clamps work versus the EX.  The clamps are a weak area on the EX as multiple folks, including me, have worn out the threads.  I replace my bottom Aluminum clamp last week.

 

Also, I couldn't tell from the promotional video if the arm raised high enough to feed the blade back through reasonably thick stock.  That is the one area where the EX shines over the dw788.  It didn't look like the arm raised enough.  Running on full throttle, how is the vibration compared to the EX running full out?

 

I am so freaking jealous, eventually, I'll get my hands on a Hawk. 

 

---------Randy

 

Randy

 

My experience and opinion only.  Both machines have their advantages.  The BM is made in America - I actually drove down to Bushton, KS to pick mine up.  It is solidly but simply engineered.  A reasonably talented handy person could probably do most repairs.  It has fewer moving parts and fewer bearings and most of it is easily accessible.  The EX has more bearings, more moving parts, and some parts are not very accessible.  When the EX arm is fully up you have a solid 10 inches between the bottom of the top clamp and the table top.  When the BM arm is fully up you have 5 inches between the bottom of the top clamp and the table top.  Also on the BM there is an arm extending along side and below the saw arm which ends just before the top clamp and the height between the bottom of that arm and the table top is 4 inches.  However the BM does have a blade slot which is elongated to the front and with the way the lower clamping mechanism is attached it will let the blade swivel to the front to give some relief to bottom feeders.  The top clamp is also mounted in that manner but will not give as much relief to top feeders.  I think the clamping mechanism is more awkward on the BM than it is on the EX.  On the BM you generally will slip one of the clamps out of its holding mechanism, insert the blade and tighten the thumb screw, and then reinsert the clamp in its holding mechanism.  You will then feed the blade through your work piece to the other clamp - this only has to occur when you change blades.  If I had used the BM more I do think I would have gotten more used to the procedure and been able to do it almost subconsciously but I did not use it enough to get to that point.  The BM clamps themselves are somewhat similar to the EX and DW clamps in that they have a set screw on one side and a thumb screw on the other side.  The BM screws are a smaller diameter than the EX and DW which are interchangeable.  I have also had to replace clamps on my EX - I am a bottom feeder so it is my top clamp which gets used the most on fret work.  After I learned that I do not have to tighten the thumb screw as hard as I can, I have not really experienced a problem with threads although I am sure it will happen again.  I doubt there would be that problem with the BM.  I do prefer the thumb screws on the EX and DW over those on the BM.  The BM is just a solid thumb screw and as you know the EX and DW thumb screws each have an end which swivels and will stop twisting when contacting the blade and while you are continuing to tighten the thumb screw.  I think this design probably relieves some blade stress when you put it under tension and start sawing and that you may be more likely to break blades with a BM whereas with an EX and DW you are likely to be able to run the blade until dull; all other factors being equal.

 

Both are excellent machines.  I love the solid but simple engineering of the BM and if I could change anything it would be the size and configuration of the table top and the thumb screws.  If you recall from postings on another forum, I had a machine shop friend do a new EX table top for me which is four inches wider and four inches deeper to the front of the blade.  I do not care for the EX dust collection so it did not bother me to take that table top off when I got a newer EX and put the larger table top on.  I think my under table dust collection is just as good or better than what EX has attached to its table top.  Biggest disadvantage of the EX is a lot more moving parts to go bad and more difficult and costly to repair even if you can do it yourself.  At full throttle the BM probably has a little less vibration and the BM is a little less noisy.  I do have my machines mounted on the EX stand (separate stands for each) which is bolted to 3/4 plywood and 4 inch locking swivel casters and a bag of water softner salt on the plywood.  I also have 3/4 plywood between the top of the stand and the machine so I could make an extra work surface right beside the machine.  I really do not have a serious vibration issue with these machines.

 

I hope I have given a reasonable comparison of the machines for you and anyone else who is interested in either machine.  If I have failed to answer something you are curious about let me know.  Because of what I have invested I really do not feel I can change my price but since I have already spent the money I would be willing to consider stretching payments over a comfortable time for someone who is interested as I would like it to find a good home.

[Rolf]

I know this may surprise you Randy but I am not interested. I could see this saw being used by a model builder , for one it has a true vertical stroke like the really old saws with spring tensioning. But It has too many negatives for a serious scroller. Just my opinion.

 

Doug

Did you mean me? "Roly"   I would love to have a BM 20, especially for that price. My problem, I have 0 space left in my shop. 

[hotshot]

That was absolutely awesome.  The EX is a great saw, so having that perspective, and contrasting that with the Hawk is priceless.  You might share some of your experience on the reviews page so this information don't get lost in the flood of posts.  There is just so few folks that buy the newest Hawks, that very little practical information is available.

 

It is interesting the the clamp screws on the BM doesn't have the "loose" head.  That might be one part that Bushton doesn't have the equipment to make.  As a top feeder, it would really be good for the top arm to lift higher as well.  I really like that feature of the EX. I do have to say, in terms of complexity, if the EX start making crazy internal noises, those fixes are not trivial.  In this regard, the Hawk is more like the Hegner.  But . . . when the EX is working as it was designed, it is an absolute joy to drive.

 

I did have one more question for you that I forgot to ask the first time.  I'm pretty good at tweaking the EX to minimize blade travel, but no matter how much tweaking, it is never zero.  Usually blade travel doesn't bother me, but there are a few delicate cuts that blade travel give me issues as I'm trying to get that first "touch" to the workpiece, especially coming in at an angle.  How is the blade travel on the Hawk?

 

I do remember that discussion on the other forum about your custom table.  That has been quite a while back.  I'm a hardware guy, so I enjoy that type of thing immensely.

 

------Randy

Edited July 19, 2016 by hotshot

[Doug]

I know this may surprise you Randy but I am not interested. I could see this saw being used by a model builder , for one it has a true vertical stroke like the really old saws with spring tensioning. But It has too many negatives for a serious scroller. Just my opinion.

 

Doug

Did you mean me? "Roly"   I would love to have a BM 20, especially for that price. My problem, I have 0 space left in my shop. 

Yes Rolf, I did mean you.  Roly is the other side of the pond and I know you like your Hawk.

[Rolf]

The lower clamp support on the Hawks is adjustable using an allen wrench. It moves the lower clamp forward or back to almost true vertical stroke. The only true vertical was a design like the Eclipse used.

Go to the Hawk web site ( sorry I can't seem to copy and paste?)

 

Regarding the clamps. The original clamps that came with my G4 were  an assembly of about 7 pieces two halves, two allen screws to hold it together. two internal hardened metal blocks that sandwiched the blade and of course the thumb screw with a nice rubber grip. Obviously an expensive clamp, I had to put helicoils in the assembly because my heavy hands stripped the threads. They were replaced by a simple one block design with a set screw and a thumb screw, this is what they use now. I have never had a problem with blade bending with them. What is nice is there is a hole down the center so no guess work in blade positioning and dept.

 

I have since modified my upper clamp with the Pozgai (delta clamp) quick clamp ( no longer available thanks to Delta)

Fret work blade clamping is almost instant. I keep several clamps loaded with blades, when one breaks I just pop in another  and go.

[Doug]

Rolf/Randy

 

Here is the Hawk web site

 

http://www.bushtonmanufacturing.com/WebsitePages/The-Hawk-Scroll-Saw.html

 

As mentioned, I do think you get closer to a true vertical cut and blade with the Hawk.  Although most probably know it, I did not mention the Hawk has the tear drop table like the DW rather than the rectangular table like the EX.

 

Randy - I did copy and paste to the scroll saw review under Hawk BM 20 review and cross referenced to it under the EX 21 review.

[heppnerguy]

Randy,

The saw arrived today I will be leaving for a few days but when I get home I will unpack it and give it an honest shot. I will make a few items and post them. I will follow up with a written review of the saw, including what I like about it and what I do not. After an honest effort I will make a decision on whether I will want to keep it or offer it to another SSV family member. Thank you again for your generosity. Maybe some day there will be something I can do for you you

 

Dick

heppnerguy