RBI Hawk 26 Ultra vs Excalibur 21

[Blaughn]

I picked up a like-new Hawk 26 Ultra made by RBI (pre Bushton).  There is a lot to like about it but the vibrations at higher speeds are troubling - along with no dust collection provision.

 

I am on the hunt for an Excalibur 21. Based upon what I have read, it seems to be at the top of many peoples' list.  The Jet 22 is interesting but I would prefer to wait for some user experience before going that direction.  I would be interested to hear from anyone with experience with these 2 machines.  It appears that there is no hurry as everyone seems to be sold out of the Ex-21.

 

I am new to scrolling and to this forum so take that into consideration.  

 

 

[Bill WIlson]

I recently purchased an EX-21 to replace my DeWalt.  I have been pleased with it so far.  I will say that the dust collection provisions on the EX aren't all that impressive.  In fact, I'd say that was the one thing I disliked about the saw.  It's a relatively minor issue though and would not have dissuaded me from the EX, but it isn't really a game changer either.

 

I don't know anything about Hawks, other than what I've read and been told by other users.  They seem to be very highly regarded and their customer service apparently has been pretty good, once they got their feet under them after the acquisition.  My suggestion would be to call Bushton and ask them about the vibration issue.  Perhaps it could be resolved with a simple repair, like a bearing replacement or something.

[Lucky2]

Bruce, how high of speed can you use, before the vibrations cause issues? Do you really need to run your saw at those speeds, or, could you still use the saw at a slower speed? How old is the saw, how much use has it seen, and have you checked all bushings and bearings that are on the saw? How solidly is the saw fastened to it's base, are all corners tightened down tight? There's numerous things that could be causing the vibrations, maybe someone more familar with these saws will have a solution.

Len

[SCROLLSAW703]

Bruce, try putting rubber mats under your saw. The fatigue mats that you can buy at hf work great! Zen asked most of the questions I would've. Check your back mounts to make sure they are both square with the table. Take a couple 3/4" wrenches & check your bearings on the top & bottom arms. They should be 1/4 turn past snug. Also check your mounting bolts underneath to make sure they are all tight. Is your saw level? Make sure it is. As mentioned, is it necessary to run at a high enough speed to make it vibrate? Or does it vibrate at all speeds? The Hawk should run with very little vibration. My shop floor is wood, & I wore out a 220VS Hawk, & recently purchased a BM-26". I can set a nickel on edge on the table, run the saw at any speed & the nickel will set there. I also have mine on casters. It would on the 220 as well.

[Blaughn]

Bruce, how high of speed can you use, before the vibrations cause issues? Do you really need to run your saw at those speeds, or, could you still use the saw at a slower speed? How old is the saw, how much use has it seen, and have you checked all bushings and bearings that are on the saw? How solidly is the saw fastened to it's base, are all corners tightened down tight? There's numerous things that could be causing the vibrations, maybe someone more familar with these saws will have a solution.

Len

Hi Len:  The vibrations are definitely only at higher speeds.  This machine has had very little use (near show-room condition.)  The length of the articulating arm is 30 inches (19.5 from pivot point to blade holder and 10.5 to counterbalance behind the pivot point)  The counterbalance does a good job of reducing vibration but at higher speeds, the vibration caused by the reversal of direction is significant.  I built some vibration reduction pads by laminating plywood and foam together which helps tremendously.  I have seen the Excalibur Youtube video that shows a nickel balancing on the table.  That is impressive.

[Blaughn]

Bruce, try putting rubber mats under your saw. The fatigue mats that you can buy at hf work great! Zen asked most of the questions I would've. Check your back mounts to make sure they are both square with the table. Take a couple 3/4" wrenches & check your bearings on the top & bottom arms. They should be 1/4 turn past snug. Also check your mounting bolts underneath to make sure they are all tight. Is your saw level? Make sure it is. As mentioned, is it necessary to run at a high enough speed to make it vibrate? Or does it vibrate at all speeds? The Hawk should run with very little vibration. My shop floor is wood, & I wore out a 220VS Hawk, & recently purchased a BM-26". I can set a nickel on edge on the table, run the saw at any speed & the nickel will set there. I also have mine on casters. It would on the 220 as well.

Thanks for the suggestions!  I will work through them and let you know how they worked.  I am impressed that you wore one out and bought another.  That is a great endorsement for the brand.  Is the blade change any easier with the BM-26?

[Rockytime]

Sorry to be so late in responding but when this started I was not yet a member. Anyway I have just started scrolling. I have purchased two Hawks, 210VS ultra and a SS16 which is designed to be used on a ShopSmith. Both are in beautiful condition and are silky smooth. The reason I am impressed is there are many fewer parts to wear or malfunction.The engineering is simplistic and anyone with any mechanical ability at all can do repairs and maintenance. I have looked at the DeWalt 788 and the new Jet at Woodcraft and they do make my wallet  water but are out of my financial reach. Not say'n the Hawk is the ultimate saw, I just happen to have them and they are working for me.

[WayneMahler]

I have an EX -21 and love it. Hoping you get your issues cleaned up. I have learned that quality saw come with some expense but so much worth the extra effort,  I do regular adjustments and things on mine would never look back !

[Rolf]

Could you post a picture of your Hawk and a serial number. I have no vibration issues with my G4 Hawk and would never consider changing it for any other brand. 

My scrollsaw is the only tool in my shop without dust collection. I don't want any noise when I scroll, other than the saw of course. I do always wear a half mask when I scroll.

Edited September 16, 2016 by Rolf

[hawkeye10]

I recently purchased an EX-21 to replace my DeWalt.  I have been pleased with it so far.  I will say that the dust collection provisions on the EX aren't all that impressive.  In fact, I'd say that was the one thing I disliked about the saw.  It's a relatively minor issue though and would not have dissuaded me from the EX, but it isn't really a game changer either.

 

I don't know anything about Hawks, other than what I've read and been told by other users.  They seem to be very highly regarded and their customer service apparently has been pretty good, once they got their feet under them after the acquisition.  My suggestion would be to call Bushton and ask them about the vibration issue.  Perhaps it could be resolved with a simple repair, like a bearing replacement or something.

Bill I just got the EX 16 and I agree about the dust collection. In fact I took mine off. Other than that I really like the EX.

[Rolf]

You wore out a Hawk 220 VS! WOW what part of it wore out?  I have been using my G4 26 since 2005 and replaced one bearing.

[Blaughn]

Could you post a picture of your Hawk and a serial number. I have no vibration issues with my G4 Hawk and would never consider changing it for any other brand. 

My scrollsaw is the only tool in my shop without dust collection. I don't want any noise when I scroll, other than the saw of course. I do always wear a half mask when I scroll.

I would be happy to but, for the life of me, I can't find a way to upload the images to this post.

Edited September 17, 2016 by Blaughn

[Blaughn]

I found it.  

 

Forgive the slow reply.  I have replaced 1/8" pegboard with 1/4" in the shop and am now in the process of installing a new dust collection system.  Working in the shop right now is a bit like trying to change a tire on a moving car........

 

Images corrected thanks to Hotshot.

 

Edited September 17, 2016 by Blaughn

[hotshot]

Images have weird direction attribute that don't always get corrected, even when you flip it using windows utils,  hope this works:

 

Edited September 17, 2016 by hotshot

[Blaughn]

Thank you but how did you do that.  I have been messing with it for 45 minutes.

[hotshot]

Thank you but how did you do that.  I have been messing with it for 45 minutes.

 

First time, I used the built in windows util to rotate the image, but when I uploaded, it still showed upside down, so I cheated and used photoshop to re-render the image.

 

SInce I was curious, I research for a bit, and there are a few free programs that fix this, xnview being one of those. I downloaded, tested, and it worked, as I attached the imaged I fixed with that tool.  http://download.xnview.com/XnView-win-small.exe

Edited September 17, 2016 by hotshot

[Blaughn]

First time, I used the built in windows util to rotate the image, but when I uploaded, it still showed upside down, so I cheated and used photoshop to re-render the image.

 

SInce I was curious, I research for a bit, and there are a few free programs that fix this, xnview bing one of those. I downloaded, tested, and it worked, as I attached the imaged I fixed with that tool.  http://download.xnview.com/XnView-win-small.exe

Thanks, again!!

[SCROLLSAW703]

Mr. Rolf, I bought my 220 two years ago, & it was a used machine. In pristine condition, very little, if any use on it. It was a 20 year old saw. I put it right to work out of the crate. Run like a new saw! After leveling it, & checking it over. The table weren't even scratched! In the last three months, it got where it wouldn't hold tension, & had a loud clattering noise. Between Hawk & myself, over the phone, tried to diagnose the issues. After $300 in parts, & no results, we finally took it to bushton to their plant. They worked on it most of the day we took it in, & found more things wrong with it the longer they worked on it. The main problem finally came down to the tension rod & assembly. And to fix everything else that was wore out, it was going to take more $$$ than the saw was worth. So, I just decided to let them put their money into it, & traded it off for a BM-26. We figured in the 2 years we've owned it, I'd put close to 2000 hours on it. I gave $300 for the saw, & had that in parts before i took it to bushton. By the time We'd of got the bill paid with their work, we'd of had $700 in it. I just figured it'd be best to let it go. They gave me $425 trade in. I'm extremely happy with my 26. Wouldn't trade it for anything else!  The Hawk saws are top of the line machines! You can't beat them, even used! I don't know anything about the ex saws, but, I've got 5 in my shop, all in usable condition. And, I do use the others for certain things. But the Hawk is my work horse. 

 

I've got a CW-40 we bought brand new 20 years ago, & it still runs like new! I'd hate to think how many hours that ol' fella has on him! I've had to replace the power switch, the VS switch, & recently the bellows. Otherwise, it keeps on running, considering the saw is obsolete. I reckon it's all in how hard you use them, & how well they're taken care of. jmo.

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

I picked up a like-new Hawk 26 Ultra made by RBI (pre Bushton).  There is a lot to like about it but the vibrations at higher speeds are troubling - along with no dust collection provision.

 

I am on the hunt for an Excalibur 21. Based upon what I have read, it seems to be at the top of many peoples' list.  The Jet 22 is interesting but I would prefer to wait for some user experience before going that direction.  I would be interested to hear from anyone with experience with these 2 machines.  It appears that there is no hurry as everyone seems to be sold out of the Ex-21.

 

I am new to scrolling and to this forum so take that into consideration.  

 

I own a Hawk 220 and 226. The key with them is getting them to sit level and make sure all legs are splayed out properly to get the balance. I never run the saw at high speeds. It is way too fast for me. I am in the 8 to 9 range and there is no vibration at all. Love the saws I am a bottom feeder and these saws are great for that. Good luck in your quest to find that perfect saw. I found mine.