Blade speed?

[hawkeye10]

I guess this is another question that people have a different opinion on. I have seen some say run your SS wide open then others say run it from 1/2 to 3/4 and then some say find a sweet spot. I find that running it 3/4 to full speed is okay and I really can't tell much difference. All I have been cutting is practice patterns using 1/4" ply that I bought at Home Depot. You know the cheap stuff. Do you guys have any advice?

[Rolf]

Speed is wood, thickness, control and blade dependent. And most important your comfort level. 

Heat destroys blades so feed and speed are important. We all develop our own style of cutting, I do lots of very detailed fine cutting so I slow down for more control. 

I run my Hawk in the mid to high range most of the time never full tilt. 

[Bill WIlson]

Like blade preference, I think this is a something that each user needs to find what works best for them.  There are many variables that play into blade speed; material, blade, pattern, feed rate.  Run at the speed that gives you the most control of the cut.  I'll sometimes change speeds during a cut and I rarely ever run the saw wide open.  It all comes down to how comfortable you are with the cut you are making.  I don't cut for speed and I cut different types of projects from different material, so I adjust the speed accordingly.  Those who specialize in one type of scrolling or cut for production may have a different perspective.

[john shankel]

when i started i was using a scroll saw i got when i was a kid.. it had no speed control ,, my suggestion to u is find a simple pattern and try to cut it out using the cheap wood you got ,, when i started i was cutting a simple one it took three trys to get it the other two broke lol you just need to jump in and try it out dont be scared we all make mistakes...

just have fun ..

[dgman]

Hey Don, I'm a scroll saw instructor at the Woodcraft store in Ventura, CA. I teach my students to start at mid speed. If you feel you can't control the blade or stay on the line, slow down the blade speed. If you feel like it's just going too slow, speed it up. You will learn to "feel the wood" as you gain experience.

[Scrolling Steve]

The wood thickness and type dictate some of my speed selections, but as a rule my saw is at 3/4 speed the most !......Just my two cents,

[CharleyL]

Slow the saw down until it doesn't burn the wood that you are cutting, but remember that dull blades will burn the wood too, so set the speed a little slower if you notice during cutting that the cut is starting to burn. Don't expect a blade to last forever. A blade that turns blue in the cutting area is going too fast and is overheating. It will soften and break where it turns blue very quickly. Slowing the saw and more frequent use of blade lubrication is my best recommendation here.

 

With a DeWalt 788 you won't break blades very often if you are running at the correct speed and are using the right blade for what you are cutting. Even with a #1 or #1/0 blade, I run my blade tension very tight, typically 3-4 on the DeWalt 788 (push down on the upper blade grip as you tighten the blade clamp, for repeatable blade tension settings).  A good Flying Dutchman blade will usually last me an hour or more when cutting pine, about 1/2 hour when cutting hard maple, and they need replacing because they are "too dull" and not usually because they broke, but I also like the Olson PGT blades for certain uses. Buy a few dozen of each of different blade sizes and brands and decide for yourself which ones you like best. Keep notes so you will remember which work best for you for each type and thickness of wood that you cut. You will soon develop favorites and can buy them in larger quantities. Blade life will vary a lot with the different woods that you cut. Usually the harder the wood, the quicker the blade will dull, but woods like cypress will dull blades quickly because of the silica content, even though it is a softer wood. Certain other woods also have high mineral contents that will dull blades quickly. It's just the cost of cutting that kind of wood, so you have to live with it.

 

In quantity, a blade will cost less than $0.20, so it isn't a budget buster when you need to replace it. Don't "cheap out" and try to use a blade when it gets dull. Replace a blade when it doesn't feel right or becomes obviously dull and the quality of your cuts and cutting speed will be higher.  Keep a count of how many blades that you use and/or break for each project and you will quickly decide that this cost is very unimportant with respect to the overall cost of your hobby. When I finally decide that I need to buy blades I usually buy several gross at a time, and it's usually when I'm down to my last 2 or 3 dozen of the size that I'm using, or one of the other more commonly used sizes for me. Then I always seem to be in the middle of a big project and I count the days and the number of blades used until my shipment from The Wooden Teddy Bear http://www.woodenteddybearonline.com/x/ gets to me, but I've always been very pleased with how fast they have shipped my blades to me. I keep my blades in 5 1/2" tall prescription pill bottles that are given to me free by the Walgreen Drug Store that I frequent. Each blade type and each brand gets it's own container, and I cut out the label that came on them and insert it into the bottle, so I can re-order the exact blade and type again. I also attach round sticker labels to the bottle caps and write this information on them as well, but since I will likely get the tops on the wrong bottles someday, the label added inside the bottle will show what is actually inside the bottle. 

 

I frequently lubricate my blades (every 5-10 minutes of cutting) by slightly cutting into a piece of household sealing wax or a broken piece of candle and with a slight side to side motion as I'm pulling the blade back out, to lubricate the sides of the blade. Household sealing wax is available in grocery stores, and a 1 pound box will last you many years, even if using your saw daily. Some say that covering their project with packing tape lubricates their blades, but I haven't had very good luck with this.

 

I've just started my annual "Reindeer Manufacturing Production Process", again making small compound cut reindeer to give away during the Christmas Season. This will be year #7 that I've been doing this, and each year my production quantity has increased. I made 426 reindeer and gave them all away this past Christmas Season. I'm not sure that I can beat last year's quantity, but I'm going to try. I make 4 sizes. The largest is about 3 1/2" high and the smallest is just over 1" high. I make the middle two sizes into pins and the smallest ones into ear rings. The ear rings are for "special friends" since they are harder to make, require 2 of the smallest and hardest to make reindeer, and cost more (for the gold and silver jewelry hardware) to make them.

 

When you get good at cutting curves and following pattern lines closely, I'll show you how to make these. They aren't as hard as they look. They take me 6-10 minutes each, depending on size, with the longest time required for the smallest reindeer. Attached are some pictures of them. Any woman or teen who helps me in any way during the Christmas Season gets handed a reindeer or reindeer pin as I wish them "A Very Merry Christmas". Most men (who are not woodworkers) don't appreciate them, so they are only offered to the women, but I'll also give one to a man, if he is interested. 

 

I posted more reindeer information, these pictures, and more back in December of last year, so a search of my posts will bring up several links to more information. 

 

Charley

Edited September 1, 2016 by CharleyL

[crupiea]

I run my saw on the slowest possible speed.  i also use pretty tiny blades so i have to.

 

I would actually like it if it went way slower.

 

i usually cut 1/8" bb though too.

 

i get scared of the thing if i have a big blade and go full out and I have been scrolling for many years.

[Lucky2]

Speed? It takes a fair amount of trial and error time to learn what speed you should be cutting at. Once you've put enough time into the trial and error part, you'll soon realize that you go by feel and listening to your saw. I pay very little attention to what speed my saw is set at. I know from listening to the sound my saw makes, and from the feel of the wood going into the blade. I don't ever recall a time when I ran my saw at full speed to cut anything, no matter how thick/thin the wood might be. 

Len

Edited September 2, 2016 by Lucky2

[SCROLLSAW703]

+1 on some of Charleys info. Every scroller has their own speed & blade preferences. Even in 1/4" material, I don't see the need to run your saw at top end speed. IMO. 

 

I've been scrolling 23 years, & started out with a single speed Craftsman, & pin end blades. I own five scroll saws now, & my work horse is a 26" Hawk. I use rough sawn material in all my projects, & plane it to 1/2" for most all my projects. I use #02 - #5 blades. Several of my projects have a lot of detail, & require a smaller blade. Even in 1/2" material. I make dream catchers, & I cut my own feathers from 3/16" wood. I run my speed on the low end for those.

 

When I'm cutting 1/2" material, & don't have much detail, I run my speed on 1/2 or there abouts. A #5 blade doesn't require full throttle to maintain its ability. You need to find a smooth spot for your speed in any size blade & material. As mentioned, the scroll saw isn't designed to work on speed as much as patience. It's designed to create, & enjoy your time with. My advice would be to decide what type of projects you want to do, & have an interest in. Research your saw, types of blades, wood species, etc. The more you know about your equipment, the easier it will be to make blade decisions & speed. JMO.

[WayneMahler]

My thoughts are simple. What speed works for you are doing. I regulate mine depending on the job at hand. I can go from full speed to very slow. All blades cut differently as well as the life they offer. It all depends on what you are cutting. Hard wood, baltic birch and the like. But everyone has a comfort zone.Example would be using a spiral cut vs a Ultra reverse depending on the pattern.

[amazingkevin]

I guess this is another question that people have a different opinion on. I have seen some say run your SS wide open then others say run it from 1/2 to 3/4 and then some say find a sweet spot. I find that running it 3/4 to full speed is okay and I really can't tell much difference. All I have been cutting is practice patterns using 1/4" ply that I bought at Home Depot. You know the cheap stuff. Do you guys have any advice?

thin wood you need to go slow,you'll have more control and less mistakes

[Ron Johnson]

Like driving a car, riding a bike or playing a musical instrument I go by sound and feel when cutting and of course speed will vary on thickness and hardness of wood, blade type, pattern and etc I never run the saw at full speed being I'm not on a schedule. When cutting I keep the blade clean and lubricated with bees wax As others have noted you'll find the sweet spot. So when cutting vary your speed with different blades on different woods and in no time you and the saw will become one cutting any pattern with precision.

Edited September 2, 2016 by Ron Johnson

[lawson56]

I just starting using 1/4 BB plywood as my prime cutting wood.I use to cut in the mid range.now I have slowed down some .I have found I get a better cut,less breakage.

[hawkeye10]

Slow the saw down until it doesn't burn the wood that you are cutting, but remember that dull blades will burn the wood too, so set the speed a little slower if you notice during cutting that the cut is starting to burn. Don't expect a blade to last forever. A blade that turns blue in the cutting area is going too fast and is overheating. It will soften and break where it turns blue very quickly. Slowing the saw and more frequent use of blade lubrication is my best recommendation here.

 

With a DeWalt 788 you won't break blades very often if you are running at the correct speed and are using the right blade for what you are cutting. Even with a #1 or #1/0 blade, I run my blade tension very tight, typically 3-4 on the DeWalt 788 (push down on the upper blade grip as you tighten the blade clamp, for repeatable blade tension settings).  A good Flying Dutchman blade will usually last me an hour or more when cutting pine, about 1/2 hour when cutting hard maple, and they need replacing because they are "too dull" and not usually because they broke, but I also like the Olson PGT blades for certain uses. Buy a few dozen of each of different blade sizes and brands and decide for yourself which ones you like best. Keep notes so you will remember which work best for you for each type and thickness of wood that you cut. You will soon develop favorites and can buy them in larger quantities. Blade life will vary a lot with the different woods that you cut. Usually the harder the wood, the quicker the blade will dull, but woods like cypress will dull blades quickly because of the silica content, even though it is a softer wood. Certain other woods also have high mineral contents that will dull blades quickly. It's just the cost of cutting that kind of wood, so you have to live with it.

 

In quantity, a blade will cost less than $0.20, so it isn't a budget buster when you need to replace it. Don't "cheap out" and try to use a blade when it gets dull. Replace a blade when it doesn't feel right or becomes obviously dull and the quality of your cuts and cutting speed will be higher.  Keep a count of how many blades that you use and/or break for each project and you will quickly decide that this cost is very unimportant with respect to the overall cost of your hobby. When I finally decide that I need to buy blades I usually buy several gross at a time, and it's usually when I'm down to my last 2 or 3 dozen of the size that I'm using, or one of the other more commonly used sizes for me. Then I always seem to be in the middle of a big project and I count the days and the number of blades used until my shipment from The Wooden Teddy Bear http://www.woodenteddybearonline.com/x/ gets to me, but I've always been very pleased with how fast they have shipped my blades to me. I keep my blades in 5 1/2" tall prescription pill bottles that are given to me free by the Walgreen Drug Store that I frequent. Each blade type and each brand gets it's own container, and I cut out the label that came on them and insert it into the bottle, so I can re-order the exact blade and type again. I also attach round sticker labels to the bottle caps and write this information on them as well, but since I will likely get the tops on the wrong bottles someday, the label added inside the bottle will show what is actually inside the bottle. 

 

I frequently lubricate my blades (every 5-10 minutes of cutting) by slightly cutting into a piece of household sealing wax or a broken piece of candle and with a slight side to side motion as I'm pulling the blade back out, to lubricate the sides of the blade. Household sealing wax is available in grocery stores, and a 1 pound box will last you many years, even if using your saw daily. Some say that covering their project with packing tape lubricates their blades, but I haven't had very good luck with this.

 

I've just started my annual "Reindeer Manufacturing Production Process", again making small compound cut reindeer to give away during the Christmas Season. This will be year #7 that I've been doing this, and each year my production quantity has increased. I made 426 reindeer and gave them all away this past Christmas Season. I'm not sure that I can beat last year's quantity, but I'm going to try. I make 4 sizes. The largest is about 3 1/2" high and the smallest is just over 1" high. I make the middle two sizes into pins and the smallest ones into ear rings. The ear rings are for "special friends" since they are harder to make, require 2 of the smallest and hardest to make reindeer, and cost more (for the gold and silver jewelry hardware) to make them.

 

When you get good at cutting curves and following pattern lines closely, I'll show you how to make these. They aren't as hard as they look. They take me 6-10 minutes each, depending on size, with the longest time required for the smallest reindeer. Attached are some pictures of them. Any woman or teen who helps me in any way during the Christmas Season gets handed a reindeer or reindeer pin as I wish them "A Very Merry Christmas". Most men (who are not woodworkers) don't appreciate them, so they are only offered to the women, but I'll also give one to a man, if he is interested. 

 

I posted more reindeer information, these pictures, and more back in December of last year, so a search of my posts will bring up several links to more information. 

 

Charley

Charley I have been admiring you work for a long time time on the "Router Forum". Thanks for a great post.

 

PS - In fact I think you might be the one that got me into this scrolling. 

Edited September 2, 2016 by hawkeye10

[Scrappile]

Charley, nice post thanks for taking the time.  You talk about lubing the blade and using "sealing wax" is it "Paraffin wax" you are using?  Does it leave any wax on the cut that would interfere with finish when applied?

Edited September 3, 2016 by Scrappile

[CharleyL]

Thanks for the complements, but you may grow to hate me after you slide too far down this "slippery slope", but at least your scroll sawing lumber expenses won't be as high as some other woodworking projects can cost.

 

Stick to pine (clear pine with no strong growth rings or knots) and thin 1/8-1/4" Baltic Birch plywood at first. Growth rings will deflect the blade as you cut through them at angles. Yellow pine is nothing but trouble because of the hard strong growth rings. Slow growth white pine with almost invisible growth rings is the best pine to use for scroll sawing.

 

For making the largest reindeer I usually look through all of the #2 pine and 2 X 4 stock at Lowes and Home Depot, and pick out the boards that have these traits through most of the board. Then I take them home and chop out the areas that don't meet these requirements, leaving only the best clear areas to cut into blanks for making the reindeer. For the largest of my 4 sizes of reindeer, pieces of 2 X 4 cut flat on the table saw to 3/4 width by the thickness of the 2 X 4 (1 5/8") make great material for this size reindeer, since the grain will be more flat in the piece like "quarter sawn" wood. I use white poplar for the mid sized reindeer because it's a little harder than pine but still cuts easily, and it makes the mid sized reindeer a little less fragile. I use hard maple for the smallest size reindeer because they are so very fragile with their legs smaller than tooth picks.    

 

When I first started scroll sawing I was always looking for easy patterns to cut out. I found that many children's coloring books had some great patterns in them. I used stationary store White-out to make bridges in the pattern lines to keep pieces from falling out after the cuts, and then made several photo copies of each to use as "easy to do scroll saw cutting patterns". I cut these out and gave them away to friends with children, while I improved my abilities to follow the lines and choose the right blades and cutting speeds. I gradually took on more complex patterns as my abilities increased, until they were no longer challenging enough. Then I began buying more complex patterns and cutting them until they no longer were very challenging for me and I began seeking smaller and more precise patterns to cut. It's been over 40 years and 5 scroll saws since I first started scrolling.

 

About 12 years ago I discovered compound (3D) cutting. It was at a woodworking show where I watched a band saw demonstrator make a rough looking large 3D reindeer on a band saw. He didn't manage to sell me a band saw, but I was "hooked"on making 3D projects !!! So I went home and tried doing it myself. My first 3D reindeer and projects were cut on my band saw with an 1/8" blade, and I had to design my patterns myself because I couldn't find any. Then I tried using my scroll saw and doing smaller patterns the same way. Getting the smoother cuts with little to no sanding afterward got me completely hooked on using the scroll saw for cutting these and I haven't done compound cutting on my band saw since then.     

 

When you are ready to try compound cutting, send me a PM with your personal e-mail address and I'll send you some of my patterns. Send me your home mailing address and I'll send you some samples.

 

For more information and some great patterns in compound cutting 3D, look for books by Diana Thompson. She has published several books of 3D scrolling patterns now. Frank Pozsgai has also published books on doing 3D scrolling, but some of his patterns are not correct. Like maybe he drew them and published them, but he never actually tried to cut them out. 

 

Charley

[Sparkey]

I find the faster I try to run the more mistakes I make. I run my DW 788 on number 4. It cuts a little slower but gives me better control.

[CharleyL]

Scrappile,

 

I'm using either candle wax from broken or "to short" candles, or the paraffin sealing wax that comes from the grocery store, nothing fancy. The blades hold so little on their sides that I've never had any problems with it affecting finish stains, oils, or poly. Most of the wax that the blade holds onto in the blade teeth gets rubbed off in the first blade stroke or two. The wax on the sides of the blade gets into the pores of the metal, and this is what keeps the blade cooler and helps prevent burning. It doesn't last very long, so it needs to be applied frequently. I either just rub the sides of the moving blade or cut into the wax and then use light side to side pressure as I'm backing the blade back out of the cut in order to get the wax against the sides of the blade. The cut length into the wax is never deeper than 1/8 - 1/4". A box of paraffin wax from the grocery store has about eight roughly 1/2" by 2 1/2" square pieces of wax in it. I usually cut one of these in half with the scroll saw, as I need a new piece. Usually both halves end up somewhere around my saw, so at least one is nearby when I need it. In truth, I probably loose more pieces of wax than I actually use. My wife saves me broken or "too short" candles, and if I have some of them, they will get put near the scroll saws and gradually used up or lost too. I sometimes completely refill my wax storage box when I finally do a thorough cleaning of the floor around my scroll saws and under the tool chest, putting all of the "found" pieces of wax in my little wax box which is nothing more than an old  4" X 6" wooden box that I keep my wax pieces in near my saws where I can conveniently reach them to use them again. Postage stamp sized pieces of wax usually just get tossed or swept up. I could probably remelt them and make larger pieces, but wax is cheap and not worth my time to recover them. I likely waste way more wax than actually gets on the blades, but again, it's cheap.

 

I also wax my scroll saw tables with Johnson's Paste Wax before every scrolling session, and sometimes every 3 or 4 hours if cutting all day. If you let the paste wax dry to a haze and then wipe off the excess, it will never cause finishing problems, but it will make your work float around the blade as you cut, allowing you to get better accuracy.

 

Better lighting that eliminates shadows and false blade images is also very important. That's why I began using a light on each side of the saw table, pointed at the blade cut point. Originally I was using draftsman's halogen lights, but switched to some nice white LED lights earlier this year. With the many LEDs in each light they create even less shadows than the two halogen lights did. Now my hands don't get sunburned and I don't burn my head on the halogen lights any more either. The LED  lights that I bought are $19.95 each at Lowes. I liked the lights, but wasn't happy with the spring clip attachments, so I made a bracket from aluminum that wraps around the upper arm of my DeWalt 788 and I attached the goose neck of the lights to this bracket, one on each side of the upper saw arm.

 

If you decide to do this, only buy the lights with the spring clip base. The ones with the weighted base are not made the same, even though the goose neck piece looks the same. It's much easier to attach the goose neck from a spring clip light to a new bracket than it is to try to come up with a way to attach the goose neck from a weighted base version of the light to a home made bracket.

 

See the link for my post about these lights below.

 

http://www.scrollsawvillage.com/topic/17818-improved-lighting-for-my-scroll-saw/?hl=charleyl#entry175181

 

 

 

 

Sparkey,

 

I agree.

 

It's not necessary to run the saws fast. The blade can only remove the amount of wood that the gullets of the blade teeth can hold for each stroke of the blade. Running the blade faster may help you cut a little faster, but you won't be anywhere near as accurate, and the accuracy of following the pattern lines as perfectly as possible, while achieving smooth curves, is what makes a good scroll saw project. Running fast or using blades that are too large for the tightness of curves that you need to follow in the pattern burns the wood, overheats the blade, and dulls the blade faster. They break sooner too. You need to feed the wood into the blade at a speed that allows accuracy with a blade and speed that can remove the wood from the cut slightly faster than you are feeding it. It's all a balance between you, the blade of choice, and the blade speed. Applying too much feed pressure to make a blade cut faster will distort the blade, making the cut in the wood curved. This is very bad when trying to cut thick or stacked patterns. I run my blades tight. a 3-4 blade tightness setting on a #1 Reverse tooth blade in my DeWalt 788. I avoid excessive feed pressure and sideways pressure on the blade, and I can cut pine or Baltic Birch plywood for well over an hour before the blade becomes dull, and I rarely break a blade. Scrolling should be fun and as accurate as you can make it. Not a race to completion. It's the journey, not the destination, that should give you beautiful projects and enjoyment in scrolling. Don't worry about how fast you can cut a pattern. Strive to make it as perfect as you can and let it be completed whenever it is.

 

Charley

Edited September 3, 2016 by CharleyL

[meflick]

As a fellow newbie to the saw and the forums - I just wanted to say thank you to everyone who has posted and answered these types of questions and especially the detail that each of you provide so often.  I appreciate all the answers and read them all (sometimes more than once) in my effort to learn as I go with this new hobby.  My DH said the other night - that you could be making stuff rather than being on the forum answering questions - I am well aware of that - and just wanted to let you guys and gals know who are sharing that it is welcomed, appreciated, and helping newbies like myself.  Thanks. 

[SCROLLSAW703]

I think some of us with years of experience forget we had to learn the things we're giving you newbies advice about. As crazy as this may sound, 50% of the folks that buy scroll saws from the box store, HF, whoever, end up sending them back bcause they lose interest. The number one reason is they don't know how. The #2 reason is they aren't able to get anybody to "show them what to do next." The number three reason is they "can't" find blades or wood.

 

You may wonder where I got those stats from, but it's no secret. Nearly every saw review has a list of written comments. In those comments, you'll find why more & more folks take the saw back where it came from. One of the secrets to the scroll saw, or any tool, for that matter, is to read the operators manual FIRST! Then ask questions. Research your equipment a little bit. Learn what its designed to do, & the things that can be done with it. Once you start using your saw, listen to it. Constantly! It won't take you long to learn its noises when its running properly. You'll pick up on problems sooner.

 

Spend a little time researching blades & blade types after you decide the type of projects you're interested in. You'll understand more about which type best suits the project you're doing. Blade type & material type & thickness dominates blade speed. Like anything else, start slow, & figure out what works for you. Just bcause I run my saw at 750 - 800 rpm with a #3 blade, doesn't mean that blade & speed will work for you at that speed. I use rough cut lumber in all my projects, & plane it to whatever thickness the project requires. 

 

Personally, I started out on 1/4" pine under layment, simply bcause I had access to plenty of it, & my saw, at that time, used pin end blades. The entry hole has to be bigger, so the projects I used were simpler, & had room for a larger entry hole. And I didn't yet have a planer, either. 

 

You'll find that even in pine, the blade will have a tendancy to follow the grain. This is, from my experience, more adiment in soft woods than hardwoods. Especially at higher cutting speeds. You should start out slow, learn the basics, then practice, practice, & keep practicing with different blades, speeds, woods, etc.

 

Another important factor in the equation, is to keep your table waxed. Wood will move much easier on the table, & its easier on blades & your patience. Use johnsons paste wax, or worst case scenario, wax paper from your brides' kitchen. 

 

I keep about 25 different sizes & types of blades on hand. From #02 up #7. Spiral blades, too. You'll find every project may use more than one type & size of blade. Keep learning, keep sawin', & don't be afraid to ask questions. You're on the way to getting a good start. God bless, & good luck!

Edited September 4, 2016 by SCROLLSAW703