Stack cutting

[edward]

Just wondering when stack cutting ornaments about 4-5 at a time, does anyone have the problem  with the bottom layer chipping out. just curious  edward

[stu]

Happens a lot less if using B&B ply wrapped with painters tape and use fdur#3 blade

Stu

[ike]

My experience with stacking . 3 is best 4 is acceptable and more is too much.

IKE

[Lucky2]

Edward, I've never had a problem with that happening to any I cut, but, I know that others have. What they did to solve the problem, was that they used a scrap piece of wood for the bottom. Some use 1/8" plywood, I've even heard of using hard board.

Len

[dgman]

Edward, what blade and wood are you using? I use strictly hardwoods for ornaments, 3/16", three layers with no problems. Usually use FD UR or Olson R blades. I never have chip out on the bottom one. Maybe some fuzzies, but no chip out.

[SCROLLSAW703]

IMO, to stack cut over 4 pcs at a time is a waste of time. Depending on the thickness of each piece to start with, & the type of blade you're using. Some say they prefer the UR blades for stack cutting. Personally,  I prefer a #4 or #5 skip tooth. I don't seem to get as smooth of a cut w/UR blade as I can a skip tooth. There'll be a few fuzzies on the bottom piece when I'm done, but my cuts are smooth & straight. 

 

Some of your tear out, or chipping issue could also be blade speed & material. I've found when stack cutting, if you slow the blade speed down a little bit, & use a good, sharp blade, a lot of those problems go away. Don't try to get more cut out of a blade than it'll cut when stack cutting. When it just starts to get tough goin', pitch it & put in a new blade. 

 

Different woods will chip out more than others. Especially thin material. Oak, walnut, & other hardwoods will chip out with to high of blade of speed. Also remember, smaller blades needs less tension, & larger blades need more tension. good luck.

[lawson56]

I stack cut a lot,I have had that problem,but since I switched over to BB PLY,and #2R blades.I don't I can only stack 2,And I think I am pushing it at that.  

[DWSUDEKUM]

A lot is going to depend upon the ply you are using and the blade.  one of the ways to minimize the splintering on the bottom one is to tape the whole stack top and bottom.

 

DW

[Ron Johnson]

Never had problems with tear out when stack cutting. I use 1/8" BB Ply and stack at the most 4 but usually only 3. Blade size will vary from 0/2 - 3. Sounds like a dull or improper blade.

[WayneMahler]

I stack cut 5 at a time. I do sand the bottom layer with minimal fuzzies. I use FD-UR #5 for this. 

[amazingkevin]

Just wondering when stack cutting ornaments about 4-5 at a time, does anyone have the problem  with the bottom layer chipping out. just curious  edward

I cut stacks slowly so the blade doesn't bend much.

[NC Scroller]

IMHO it has nothing to do with the number of pieces in the stack. I stack cut all the time. My stacks are 3/4" to 1" high. There are a couple things you can do to help. Go to a smaller reverse tooth blade. The other is it install a zero clearance insert to reduce the size of the table hole.

[hawkeye10]

IMHO it has nothing to do with the number of pieces in the stack. I stack cut all the time. My stacks are 3/4" to 1" high. There are a couple things you can do to help. Go to a smaller reverse tooth blade. The other is it install a zero clearance insert to reduce the size of the table hole.

Install a zero clearance insert to reduce the size of the table hole.

I have never stack cut but what you say makes sense.   

[Rolf]

I like cutting in the 1/2 inch thickness range I feel it gives me more control. I use 1.5mm thin fin ply (1/16) so I do a stack of six. Since I have a lot of small detail on my ornaments I use the Olson 2/0 R and toss the blade every 15 minutes. No problems with fuzz, every one of my ornaments gets kissed by a 240 grit mac mop both sides.

[MrsN]

I pretty much always have a stack when I cut. The bottom piece is always a bit of a mystery and can tell you a lot about how you were cutting that day. 

 

Depending on the blade and speed fuzzies are fairly normal, but chipping sounds a bit different to me. If I see chipping it is usually that I have a dull blade or the blade speed is wrong. The other thing that can cause chipping is when you have delicate pieces in the pattern and the grain of the wood or the direction you cut cause the piece to be weak. 

[ike]

When stack cutting I use speed #5 on my DW 788. I can tell by how ut is cutting by feel and sound to either speed it up or slow it down, It all comes with experience The type of plywood has a lot to do with it. The cheep $11 per 4X8 ply chips at any speed.

IKE

[meflick]

IMHO it has nothing to do with the number of pieces in the stack. I stack cut all the time. My stacks are 3/4" to 1" high. There are a couple things you can do to help. Go to a smaller reverse tooth blade. The other is it install a zero clearance insert to reduce the size of the table hole.

 

Okay, newbie here - newbie question - how does a "zero clearance insert" help? and Where does one get one?  Are they different for different saws or all the same?

 

Thanks for everyone who shared their experience/knowledge regarding stack cutting - I have been wondering about it a bit - wondering if how many or how thick was "too much" or just right and the best wood to try with etc.  I am thinking it would be easier if I did some stack cutting on some Christmas ornaments for family I was considering.  Part of it was trying to decide whether I wanted to cut out of BB Ply or hardwoods.  Still can't decide for sure on that.  I think I prefer the look of the hardwood.

[Rolf]

Zero clearance can be as simple as a playing card or a thin piece of wood or even blue tape, that covers the hole around your blade. It serves two purposes, one it supports the delicate work right next to he blade and two it keeps those tiny pieces you are cutting from disappearing on the floor.

[Bill WIlson]

Melanie,

 

The decision to use BB ply or hardwood is mostly one of personal preference.  However, there are some practical considerations to take into account.  When using hardwoods, I typically don't go much thinner than say 3/16".  Thin hardwoods are pretty fragile, especially in short, cross grain areas.  If the pattern is very intricate & detailed, BB ply is often the preferred choice, because you can go with much thinner stock for stack cutting.  Personally I think thinner Christmas ornaments look best.   Thin BB ply (1/8" or less) will be less prone to breakage than a hardwood of the same thickness.  The visual aesthetics of hardwood are hard to beat.  The natural appearance of the grain and color are big reasons we like to work with wood.  BB ply is pretty bland, but it's well suited for coloring with dyes or paints, if that is what the project calls for.  Also, for Christmas ornaments, I find that ones made from the darker woods I love, like cherry and walnut, tend to get lost in the tree.  They don't stand out, because they are too dark.  BB ply ornaments, with a clear finish, will show up better against the dark green of the tree.  So while I prefer the look of natural hardwoods, I've been making most of my ornaments out of BB ply lately for these reasons.

[banderson]

I have learned a few things about stack cutting lately and I was having tear out problems.  It wasn't the blade that was causing the issue, it was the drill bit.  It would clog up and push the wood though.  The hole would look clean but when the blade hit the sides of the hole it would remove the broken chips from around the hole.  I would look at your drill bit if you are having trouble with your inside cuts.  Make sure you clear the chips from the bit when drilling.  

[meflick]

Zero clearance can be as simple as a playing card or a thin piece of wood or even blue tape, that covers the hole around your blade. It serves two purposes, one it supports the delicate work right next to he blade and two it keeps those tiny pieces you are cutting from disappearing on the floor.

Thanks Rolf for that explanation.  I understand now and know of a couple of times with itty bitty eyes on some intarsia pieces that would have helped and kept me from losing them through the hole.    Will try to remember to try this in particular the next time i am working on those small bits and pieces.

[meflick]

Melanie,

 

The decision to use BB ply or hardwood is mostly one of personal preference.  However, there are some practical considerations to take into account.  When using hardwoods, I typically don't go much thinner than say 3/16".  Thin hardwoods are pretty fragile, especially in short, cross grain areas.  If the pattern is very intricate & detailed, BB ply is often the preferred choice, because you can go with much thinner stock for stack cutting.  Personally I think thinner Christmas ornaments look best.   Thin BB ply (1/8" or less) will be less prone to breakage than a hardwood of the same thickness.  The visual aesthetics of hardwood are hard to beat.  The natural appearance of the grain and color are big reasons we like to work with wood.  BB ply is pretty bland, but it's well suited for coloring with dyes or paints, if that is what the project calls for.  Also, for Christmas ornaments, I find that ones made from the darker woods I love, like cherry and walnut, tend to get lost in the tree.  They don't stand out, because they are too dark.  BB ply ornaments, with a clear finish, will show up better against the dark green of the tree.  So while I prefer the look of natural hardwoods, I've been making most of my ornaments out of BB ply lately for these reasons.

Thanks Bill for this knowledge  and insight.  Like you, I prefer the "look" of hardwoods.  However, it is interesting to find that "hardwood" would ten to break more than the BB ply.  I was thinking the opposite simply because they were hardwood. Also like you, I thought the hardwood would be more "visually pleasing" then plywood. I was thinking I wanted to leave them natural so you could see the wood grain and thought hardwood would be better for that too.  I tried some of the "ribbon ornaments" that Denny had shared - cut them out of 3/4" WRC.  I had a couple of them "break" in a spot.  Asked my husband if the grain mattered as well - he said for ornaments the tighter the thicker the grain would probably be better he thought (but then said but he'd never cut ornaments on a scroll saw so wasn't sure.)  Denny had been asked about the "delicate" nature of them and he indicated that they weren't that delicate and he didn't have the breakage.  I was going to ask him what he was cutting from on those so I could try and see the difference.  I do have some BB ply and some Oak ply that I was going to try to cut some ornaments from - thinking to try it with stack cutting and see how I did and how I liked them.  I appreciate your help and sharing your knowledge with us newbies as well.

[Bill WIlson]

Melanie,

 

The term "hardwood" references the type of tree, as in hardwood (deciduous) vs evergreen.  The measure of a wood's hardness typically refers to its resistance to denting and wear and doesn't always necessarily correlate to sheer strength, across the grain.  The weakness of cross grain in hard wood is much greater as the stock gets thinner.  For example, you could pick up a small, ornament sized circle of 1/8" thick red oak and easily snap it in half, across the grain.  You would not be able to readily do so with BB ply, given the nature of its construction.  Plywood is made up of a series of wood layers, with the long grain running in opposite directions for each alternating layer.  This gives the plywood incredible resistance to breakage, much greater than that of the wood in its natural state.  Of course, thicker wood will be much less prone to this breakage, but it is impractical to cut many scrolled projects from 3/4" thick stock.

Edited September 13, 2016 by Bill WIlson

[meflick]

Thanks Bill for your further insight.  So much to learn here!

[dgman]

I have learned a few things about stack cutting lately and I was having tear out problems.  It wasn't the blade that was causing the issue, it was the drill bit.  It would clog up and push the wood though.  The hole would look clean but when the blade hit the sides of the hole it would remove the broken chips from around the hole.  I would look at your drill bit if you are having trouble with your inside cuts.  Make sure you clear the chips from the bit when drilling.

 

I like your thinking Brad!