A Staining Observation

[Bandito]

I have been having trouble with the last couple of projects that I have made out of pine. When I apply the stain the back side turns out looking better than the front (or display side). I thinking the problem that I'm having is caused from not having a substrate between the wood and the pattern. The spray adhesive I'm using is soaking into the wood and causing a barrier that won't let the stain penetrate. I've tried wiping repeatedly with mineral spirits and denatured alcohol to remove the glue residue and it didn't help. Looks like I'll have to start using painters tape or something else under the pattern. Have any of you Guy's noticed the same problem? What are your thoughts?

[Scrolling Steve]

Chad, I tried gluing directly to the wood for a while( it seems to to work for a lot of the folks in the Village).....but went back to painters tape for the reason you are having...I now use the green painters tape or  frog tape, as it is called in some of the big box stores, because it comes off the delicate patterns easier.....Just my two cents.....Steve.

[ike]

I know what you mean, I had the same problem for a while but my wife had some cross stitch  canvas that was too small for her eyes so started useing it to wip my cuttings off with mineral spirits and it work , I am now using easy-tack by KROYLON

ike

[hawkeye10]

Finishing pine has always been a problem and it's not going to change. I try and steer clear of pine in most of my projects unless I am going to paint it. If you are buying pine at a big box store figure up how much you are paying per board foot. I think you will be surprised and not in a good way. Check this place out for good scroll saw ready wood. The great folks here on this forum recommended this place to buy lumber and they are right.

 

http://www.ocoochhardwoods.com/

[Bandito]

Finishing pine has always been a problem and it's not going to change. I try and steer clear of pine in most of my projects unless I am going to paint it. If you are buying pine at a big box store figure up how much you are paying per board foot. I think you will be surprised and not in a good way. Check this place out for good scroll saw ready wood. The great folks here on this forum recommended this place to buy lumber and they are right.

 

http://www.ocoochhardwoods.com/

I have looked at that web site and they do have a lot of nice looking wood. The projects that i was cutting out were about ten inches wide so I thought 1 x 12 pine would work best for me. I still think it will work well I just need to use some tape in the future. Ocoochhardwoods will be a place I'll be ordering from in the future.

[milehiscroll]

I use the blue tape method for the same reason

[MrsN]

You are correct in your observation. Glue soaks into the wood and seals the pores so the stain can soak in. A longer soak or scrub with mineral spirits may help, or trying to sand down past the glue "damaged" area. It can happen with any type of wood.

 

Pine is also a bit difficult to stain sometimes. The stain absorbs differently in different grain densities and sometimes looks quite blotchy. A sanding sealer or thin coat of finish can help even out the absorption rate of the stain.

[WayneMahler]

I use the blue painters tape under my patterns. WHen I do larger pieces in pine I use a pre-stain wood conditioner so that the stain matches across the board. Something I learned quite a while ago when I did some furniture for a customer and had to do tons of extra work to the top of the table when the stain went blotchy :(. If you are going to stain the front and back, pre treat both sides to keep it even Hope this helps.

[Bandito]

I've been staining both sides because the stain ends up running to the bottom side, so I brush the back just to even it up. Do you guy's stain both sides or just the front?

[amazingkevin]

I have been having trouble with the last couple of projects that I have made out of pine. When I apply the stain the back side turns out looking better than the front (or display side). I thinking the problem that I'm having is caused from not having a substrate between the wood and the pattern. The spray adhesive I'm using is soaking into the wood and causing a barrier that won't let the stain penetrate. I've tried wiping repeatedly with mineral spirits and denatured alcohol to remove the glue residue and it didn't help. Looks like I'll have to start using painters tape or something else under the pattern. Have any of you Guy's noticed the same problem? What are your thoughts?

First what kind of wood is it?

[Sam777]

Ok Folks,

If you don't mind, let's talk about how I apply my patterns to the wood (without the mess of spray glue and the pain of removing it):

I have been meaning to talk about this since I joined but I thought the experts know better and they probably tried everything.

1st, I print all my patterns (keep in mind I am still new to scroll sawing: less than a year and have not been doing much) on good self adhesive full sheet labels (I only use Avery and not the cheap labels).

2nd, here is the explanation:

I have not heard anyone talk about a vinyl transfer tape. That is ALL I have used since I started learning scroll sawing and joining this great forum. The reason I know so much about this tape is because I use it a lot to transfer cut vinyl to apply the vinyl to glass (in my case) ALL the vinyl sign makers  use it. you can purchase this tape in many widths from 2" to 36" and I think up to 60" wide. All we would be interested in is probably the 2", 10" or may be just the 10" one.

I wish I have made a video of the process but let me describe that process: 

You can buy this at many places and of course at Ebay. I will put links to this at the end of this post. There are two different kinds, one looks like masking tape and the other like scotch tape (clear). I have only used the masking tape look alike although there would be a great benefit to the CLEAR tape(LUBRICATING THE BLADE).

You apply either tape (I use the 10" wide one) with a squeegee just like you would on the adhesive back shelf rolls. Then you apply the pattern which you printed on the Avery label. Trust me I know what I am talking about. when you are all done with cutting your pattern, just start peeling from any place and depending on the complexity of your pattern, the tape and pattern come off leave ABSOLUTELY no residue. If your pattern has small pieces the tape/pattern paper would not peel off at in one piece but you keep peeling any small pieces effortlessly.

Remember many of us apply the blue tape one strip at a time. With my way you apply the tape to the whole surface of your wood, and you choose the clear tape, you don't need the strips of clear tape on top to lubricate the blade.

NO MORE staining or any other issues of paper stuck to the wood.

Here are the links to transfer the tape on Ebay:

* The Masking tape look alike tape:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=conform+transfer+tape&_sop=15

 

* The Scotch tape look alike tape (Clear):

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=conform+transfer+tape&_sop=15&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xclear+conform+transfer+tape.TRS1&_nkw=clear+conform+transfer+tape&_sacat=0

 

If you anyone has any questions about THIS process, please feel free to ask.

I hope I didn't confuse anyone.

 

Thank you

Sam

[Lucky2]

Chad, what your experiencing is just the regular behavior of pine wood. It doesn't take staining evenly, it will always give you a blotchy finish. To get a good even base to stain, pine wood should be pretreated with a wood conditioner.

 

Len

[Rockytime]

What is this wood conditioner? Is there a brand name? Wondering because I also cut plain old pine.

[LarryEA]

_{^{I never stain.....}} 

Well, I did once and didn't like it.... 

Like my wood natural !

[CharleyL]

When doing intricate work, and especially when doing relief carving, I like to use Applique Film for my patterns. It comes in 8 1/2 X 11 sheets and is a peel and stick design with an adhesive that does not seem to transfer to the wood. In fact, I can peel the pattern off and re-position it several times before it looses it's stickiness. A laser printer or photo copier can be used to print the pattern directly on it. An ink jet printer works, but not as well (you need to use a foil projection setting). This Applique Film is available through art and stationery supply stores, but you may need to order it, because there doesn't seem to be enough demand to keep it in stock at all locations. The product is "Chartpak DAFR8 for copiers".. Although a bit expensive at about $0.80 / sheet to be used for every day use, I prefer it for relief carving and intricate scroll saw projects where the paper patterns always seem to lift off before finishing the cuts. This film stays on to the last cut, but peels off easily with no glue left behind.

 

 Here is a link with good information about it, although I have never ordered from this website. My last box came from a local artist supply store. A box of 100 sheets lasts me several years, but I'm always careful to put as many patterns on a sheet as possible, using Photoshop to position them on the sheet, before printing them. After printing, I just cut each pattern free of the sheet using scissors, then peel off the backing, and place the pattern on the wood. If I don't get it positioned right, it peels off easily and I can re-position it several times before it no longer sticks to the wood well enough to use.

 

http://www.officespecialties.com/chartpak_dafr8_applique_drafting_film_34690_prd1.htm 

 

Charley

[Lucky2]

What is this wood conditioner? Is there a brand name? Wondering because I also cut plain old pine.

Wood conditioner is a product that preps wood for even staining, it is clear and you usually brush it on. The brand I use is Minwax, and it's called Minwax Pre-Stain Wood Conditioner. It's supposed to help wood absorb stain evenly, that's what it says on the can. Some people use it all the time, others don't like using it at all. I've used it a few times, and it has helped with ending the blotchiness. Personally, I don't find that it doesn't allow the stain to penetrate the wood. What I find it does, is it blocks the stain from penetrating the wood, it lays on top and the stain shows as its true color. I have never tried doing this, but, I think a coat of shellac would work the same as the conditioner does. I have no shellac on hand, or I would try it to see how it works.

 

Len