Dave Monk Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 I make a lot of solid wood plaques and I am having an issue with warping. No one has complained but I see it. If my plaque is very wide I rip my pieces into about 2 1/2" strips alternate the grain, glue them up and plane the whole piece down the thickness I want. Normally about 5/8" think. I paint my backer then glue it on. After that I spray the whole project. I think the glue is adding enough moisture to the wood that it causes the warpage. I know it is best to finish wood on both sides but I am concerned that my backer won't stick good enough. If you have any ideas on my process I would appreciate it. Thanks, dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgman Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 The only question I have Dave, is when you plane your boards, do you plane equal amount on both sides or just one side till you reach your thickness? WayneMahler 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTTHECLOCKMAN Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 What is it that you are actually doing??? Are you using a solid wood as the backer and then scrolling an overlay piece and gluing it to the backer??? The grain of the wood will usually tell you if it is going to warp and how large the piece is. Quartersawn wood is the best for not warping. Facesawn or flatsawn will warp the most. If painting the back board why not use plywood. Need an example to help more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Monk Posted January 31, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 The only question I have Dave, is when you plane your boards, do you plane equal amount on both sides or just one side till you reach your thickness? Equal both sides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Monk Posted January 31, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 What is it that you are actually doing??? Are you using a solid wood as the backer and then scrolling an overlay piece and gluing it to the backer??? The grain of the wood will usually tell you if it is going to warp and how large the piece is. Quartersawn wood is the best for not warping. Facesawn or flatsawn will warp the most. If painting the back board why not use plywood. Need an example to help more. I am using a ply painted backer and gluing my scrolled solid piece to it. It always cups up on the edges no matter what way the grain goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jollyred Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 A plywood backer glued to wood panel is unbalanced, It will warp with humidity changes, since the wood wants to move and the plywood is constrained from moving by its alternating grain directions. To keep this from warping, there needs to be some way for the wood to expand and contract without resistance from the plywood, One way would be to apply the glue just to the middle of the wood, so the edges can expand without resistance. Another way is to use a backer of wood instead of plywood, just be sure the grain is running in the same direction. The third way is to not worry about the small amount of warping you are experiencing, which I think is what most woodworkers do. As long as the wood is relatively dry, the amount of warping will be small. There is no way to eliminate wood movement without completely controlling the relative humidity of the environment the wood is in. Even alternating the growth rings in a glue up only averages out the warping, it does not eliminate it. Dave Monk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTTHECLOCKMAN Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 Use oak plywood. Make the face piece thicker and the backer thinner. Or make the face piece real thin and the back piece thicker. Put the piece in a frame. The wider the project the more chances of warping. Dave Monk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spirithorse Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 (edited) Hi, Dave, I think you are going to an awful lot of extra work in cutting the wood into strips and alternating the grain to begin with. If you think the extra moisture from the glue is part of the problem, perhaps you can just eliminate the sawing and glue up. When glueing the backer onto the plaque , it really takes a lot less glue than most people realize. Perhaps you can ease up on the amount of glue you are using there and, if you are still concerned about the backer not adhering well enough, with 5/8" stock you can easily add a few brads. If you do want to finish the wood on both sides, I think the glue will still hold just fine unless you are using an oil based finish and, if you add the brads mentioned, that will eliminate that worry also. You certainly do amazing work and your attention to detail is commendable. Good luck and God Bless! Spirithorse Edited January 31, 2017 by spirithorse Dave Monk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkeye10 Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 I am using a ply painted backer and gluing my scrolled solid piece to it. It always cups up on the edges no matter what way the grain goes. If it's not cupping much and people don't complain about it maybe you should not worry about it. I do know something like that bugs the heck out of a person. It does me that is for sure. The only thing I can think of is to use a thicker ply for your backer board. I think that would help. Dave Monk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsteve Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 (edited) is it possible the plaques are cupped before planning? whats the moisture content of the wood? has the lumber been acclimated to the shop before working it and/or in a temp controlled shop? are you starting from roughsawn or is the lumber S4S? Edited January 31, 2017 by tomsteve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heppnerguy Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 I have not watched it yet, but I did see where Steve Good did a video on that same warping problem on his web sight. You might want to check that out also. I am amazed at all the knowledge that is here in The Village. Everyone is so helpful too. I do not know if the Steve Good video addresses things the same as here but I just thought one additional piece of advice, doesn't hurt either Dick heppnerguy Dave Monk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkeye10 Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 I have not watched it yet, but I did see where Steve Good did a video on that same warping problem on his web sight. You might want to check that out also. I am amazed at all the knowledge that is here in The Village. Everyone is so helpful too. I do not know if the Steve Good video addresses things the same as here but I just thought one additional piece of advice, doesn't hurt either Dick heppnerguy Dick any and all help is needed and wanted. heppnerguy and Dave Monk 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sycamore67 Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 Some wood will just warp more than others. Quarter sawn wood will warp the least and has the growth rings perpendicular to the surface. With plain sawn wood it is just difficult to control the warping. Dave Monk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Monk Posted February 1, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 Thanks a lot for all of your thoughts and suggestions. I must admit that I am anal and a perfectionist. Constantly looking and listening to all you guys for better ways of doing things. dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScollSaw Slasher Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 All wood table tops if done right are secured to the base by oblong holes 90 degrees to the grain by screws. No glue! This allows the top to expand and contract freely. A possibility is to coat all of the plaque to minimize shrinking and expanding and attach the backer board with small wood screw counter sunk with the holes in the backer board larger than the shank of the screw. I don't know if it would work, but it's a possibility. The backer board would not be glued. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amazingkevin Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 I make a lot of solid wood plaques and I am having an issue with warping. No one has complained but I see it. If my plaque is very wide I rip my pieces into about 2 1/2" strips alternate the grain, glue them up and plane the whole piece down the thickness I want. Normally about 5/8" think. I paint my backer then glue it on. After that I spray the whole project. I think the glue is adding enough moisture to the wood that it causes the warpage. I know it is best to finish wood on both sides but I am concerned that my backer won't stick good enough. If you have any ideas on my process I would appreciate it. Thanks, dave I only had one issue with cupped wood and struggled to get it thru the planner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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