Finish for my Napkin Holders?

[Sam777]

Hey Sam, that is some outstanding work!

Something to consider for the future. If you are looking for a nice wood tone finish, use a nice hardwood. I think your napkin holders would look good using mahogany or walnut or Sapele. With a soaking in a boiled linseed oil/mineral spirits mix to bring out the natural color and grain of the wood, then a top coat of your choice. They would look fantastic!

Dan,

Thank you for the compliment and advice.

Where would I get Mahogany, Walnut or Sapele, in thin boards? or are you talking about using 3/4" thick? Do you think these thin cuts/initials will hold up if cut from solid wood? I will have to try. I think next I will use 1/2 Oak.

I appreciate you help

Thank

Sam

[Sam777]

Hi, Sam,

Beautiful work!

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder so, if you like the

Red Mahogany, that should be fine.

My preference would probably be Gunstock or Cherry stain

so it isn't quite as dark as the Red Mahogany.

With other people's suggestions to use contrasting colors,

now that they are cut, you will probably have to wood-burn

areas to stop one color from bleeding into the other area.

I hope to see what your final decision is.

God Bless! Spirithorse

Bob,

Thank you for the compliments / advice.

I don't want to add more phases at this point. I will have to stick to stains. But I still need to finish with some kind of lacquer or polyurethane after staining.

Thanks

Sam 

[WayneMahler]

Great job on designing and cutting them.

[Bill WIlson]

Thin hardwood is available from several on-line sources, if you don't have a local lumber yard that will mill it for you.

 

I've never dealt with them, but as one example, this one gets mentioned a lot;

 

http://www.ocoochhardwoods.com/

 

If I'm using hardwood, I tend to go a little thicker than I might, if I were cutting the same pattern from baltic birch ply.  There is some additional risk of breakage, especially in delicate, cross grain areas, but I've cut some fairly detailed patterns out of 1/4" red oak (which is more brittle than some other species), with no problems.  I think that you would be safe with most hardwoods in thicknesses 1/4" and up.

 

Baltic Birch plywood certainly has it's place in scrolling, but one down side is that it isn't the nicest looking wood.  The grain tends to be very plain and often is splotchy when stained.  If you want a material that shows the beauty of wood, then use a hardwood.  If you want something dark, then select a species that is naturally dark.  Let the beauty of the wood speak for itself as much as possible.

[Sam777]

Myself i do not mess with paints and colors because they get messed up with time. I always make things out of red oak and use a Danish oil as my finish. If I do colors it is with natural woods and their different accents. 

 

 

John,

I LOVE your pieces. Great work. Very Impressive.

I feel the same way about paints. I need to stick to stains, lacquers & polyurethanes.

I think my choice of BB does not lend itself to the expected final pieces. Next I will make more napkin holders out of solid wood (likely 1/2 oak)

Thank you

Sam

[Sam777]

Nicely designed and very well cut Sam. Being you used a plywood my choice wood be to air brush them white (seal wood prior to painting). And maybe emphasize the letters with a different colour (sealing with a clear polyurethane). If these were cut out of a hardwood such as walnut or etc. I would then finish them with a rub on polyurethane.

Ron,

Great job on your pieces (toooo much work for me).

Thank you for the compliment and the advice.

Next I will make napkin holders out of oak or walnut.

I did mess with an air brush a few years back, but it is a mess to keep cleaning after 2-3 minutes of air brushing. Back then I didn't do scroll sawing.

 

Thank you

[Sam777]

Love your creativity,i'll bet your in demand!

Thank you Kevin,

I am NOT in demand but I would like to be

I will keep improving, may some day I will be.

Thanks again

Sam

[Sam777]

I can see some with a beautiful red oak,and some with a rich mahogany.

Thank you,

I may end up doing that.

Appreciate the advice

[Sam777]

Lovely holders.     Roly

Thank you Roly

[Sam777]

Really great detail cuttings! White would be a great color also. I would first shellac first to smooth down the grain and paint and then consider lacquer. The smoothness will let the napkins slide out easier. Tung oil is also good.

I made a few out of 1/2 inch oak from a scroller design a while back. Backers were a pain since I had to route out the material to make it flush. Used Shellac and Lacquer for finish.

Very nice and elegant napkin holders.

I will have to make some from 1/2 oak next.

did you mean: shellac, then paint color over the shellac?

I tried Tun oil on some scrap pieces but didn't come out smooth on the plywood.

 

Thank you

[Sam777]

Great job on designing and cutting them.

Wayne,

Thank you for the compliment

[Sam777]

Thin hardwood is available from several on-line sources, if you don't have a local lumber yard that will mill it for you.

 

I've never dealt with them, but as one example, this one gets mentioned a lot;

 

http://www.ocoochhardwoods.com/

 

If I'm using hardwood, I tend to go a little thicker than I might, if I were cutting the same pattern from baltic birch ply.  There is some additional risk of breakage, especially in delicate, cross grain areas, but I've cut some fairly detailed patterns out of 1/4" red oak (which is more brittle than some other species), with no problems.  I think that you would be safe with most hardwoods in thicknesses 1/4" and up.

 

Baltic Birch plywood certainly has it's place in scrolling, but one down side is that it isn't the nicest looking wood.  The grain tends to be very plain and often is splotchy when stained.  If you want a material that shows the beauty of wood, then use a hardwood.  If you want something dark, then select a species that is naturally dark.  Let the beauty of the wood speak for itself as much as possible.

Bill,

I guess my choice of bb was not the best for these pieces. I agree with you and I am worried if I stain them, I might have some "splotchy" areas. I will have to use something like lacquer or polyurethane on top, correct?

Thanks

[dgman]

Dan,

Thank you for the compliment and advice.

Where would I get Mahogany, Walnut or Sapele, in thin boards? or are you talking about using 3/4" thick? Do you think these thin cuts/initials will hold up if cut from solid wood? I will have to try. I think next I will use 1/2 Oak.

I appreciate you help

Thank

Sam

Sam, every thing I do is with Hardwoods, except for the few portraits I do. Yes, these would hold up very well in just about any hardwood. In my scroll saw class, I teach my students how to compensate for suspect areas that could break such as widening the cut to make an area stronger. I routinely cut fragile items in 1/2", 3/8", 1/4" and 3/16". I cut all my Christmas ornaments in 3/16" hardwoods.

Fortunately, I have a full wood shop. Table saw, band saw, jointer and planer, so I mill most of my boards. But I also buy thin boards at Woodcraft.

There are many online sources to get thin boards such as Heritage woods, Ocooch Hardwoods and even most of the scroll saw catalogs. Do a google search for Thin Wood Blanks. You will get lots of places to look.

One other source for you is Rockler. I know there is one in Ontario, not yo far from you.

[munzieb]

I took another look at the napkin holder and if you used 1/4" wood like oak or poplar (for paint) and cut out an 1/8" (1/16") backer of the same material using the original cutting as a template. Glue and clamp very tight and sand to match. It will be hard to discern that there are two different pieces of wood. A thought....

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

I say cut down on the design and make is less delicate. Save those type designs for wall plaques or desk  signs. Less is more some times. Or make the design with all pieces touching and no floating edges. I have done many fret work designs in napkin holders but there were no floaters or unsupported edges. Still get the same effect.   

 

I just took another look at your design and there would be absolutely no reason any hardwood could not be used. 1/2" to 3/4" There are 2 free standing pieces that are well within the pattern that they would not be in danger. Good luck. I also believe natural woods are rich looking over painted objects. This is one reason I do not paint.  I choose 3/4" for all my napkin holders. 

Edited February 5, 2017 by JTTHECLOCKMAN

[munzieb]

Shellac is used in sizing paint to cover water stains on sheet rock and plaster and is made to be painted over after it dries.

[Bill WIlson]

Bill,

I guess my choice of bb was not the best for these pieces. I agree with you and I am worried if I stain them, I might have some "splotchy" areas. I will have to use something like lacquer or polyurethane on top, correct?

Thanks

 

There are multiple options, depending on what you want the piece to look like and what application methods are convenient for you. If you want a darker color, but don't want to use stain, you could try dyes.  There is a little bit of a learning curve with dyes, but they can be controlled better than a pigment stain.  You still probably would need a top coat of some sort.  Another option is to use shellac.  Clear shellac will impart a little amber tint to the baltic birch ply and serve as a topcoat.  To get more, deeper color, you can get amber shellac in quart cans.  Shellac is best sprayed on.  If you aren't set up to spray, then you could try brushing or perhaps even dipping.  Shellac dries very fast, so these methods pose some risk of the shellac tacking up before you have a chance to get it all even. 

 

You could dip the piece in boiled linseed oil.  This would also give you a little amber tint and may be easier for you than shellac.  In my opinion, BLO needs a topcoat.  Some folks leave it as is, but for something like this, I would want a clear topcoat over the BLO.  BLO needs several days to cure before putting a top coat on.

 

Next option would be a Danish oil.  These are essentially thinned oil, varnish blends that soak into the wood, give a little amber tint and also can serve as a final finish.

 

You could just apply a clear top coat of your choice.  It won't add much visual appeal to the BB ply, but it will provide some protection and give you a smooth surface. 

[Bill WIlson]

I didn't think I can make all this cutting with oak without breaking many of them.

Sam

 

Using the proper blade and technique, you shouldn't have a big problem cutting even very intricate designs in hardwoods down to 1/4" thick.  If you are experiencing a lot of breakage, try to get to the root cause.  It could be that your blade is too big and it could grab when trying to make sharp turns.  Sometimes the blade grabbing can be violent enough to break short cross grain pieces. 

 

It could be that your cutting sequence removes too much of the surrounding material that supports the piece during a cut.  I always look over a pattern and carefully plan the cutting sequence.  You want to look for trouble spots before you start cutting and plan accordingly.  Cut gently in these areas, slow down your feed rate and try no to make a lot of sudden course changes.  Instead of trying to spin the blade to make really tight turns, back out of the corner and nibble away at the waste area to approach the point of the lines from both directions.  Try to cut the most delicate areas first, so that the maximum material remains around it to support it while it's being cut, then work out from there. 

 

Some folks have mentioned zero clearance inserts.  They can be helpful, if your saw has a large opening around the blade.  If I recall correctly, you have an Excalibur.  I don't think the hole in the table is all that big on an EX that a zero clearance insert is necessary, but no harm in trying one out.

[Sam777]

Using the proper blade and technique, you shouldn't have a big problem cutting even very intricate designs in hardwoods down to 1/4" thick.  If you are experiencing a lot of breakage, try to get to the root cause.  It could be that your blade is too big and it could grab when trying to make sharp turns.  Sometimes the blade grabbing can be violent enough to break short cross grain pieces. 

 

It could be that your cutting sequence removes too much of the surrounding material that supports the piece during a cut.  I always look over a pattern and carefully plan the cutting sequence.  You want to look for trouble spots before you start cutting and plan accordingly.  Cut gently in these areas, slow down your feed rate and try no to make a lot of sudden course changes.  Instead of trying to spin the blade to make really tight turns, back out of the corner and nibble away at the waste area to approach the point of the lines from both directions.  Try to cut the most delicate areas first, so that the maximum material remains around it to support it while it's being cut, then work out from there. 

 

Some folks have mentioned zero clearance inserts.  They can be helpful, if your saw has a large opening around the blade.  If I recall correctly, you have an Excalibur.  I don't think the hole in the table is all that big on an EX that a zero clearance insert is necessary, but no harm in trying one out.

Yes I do have an EX16 but I don't have problems braking blades. Actually I have not broken ANY blades at all.

Thanks

[Sam777]

I want to thank EVERY MEMBER who took the time to check out my design/cutting and reply with comments and advice.

By now I realize that I should have used other woods than BB ply.

As for the type of wood: I am limited to what I can buy at the big home centers. I don't have a table saw (I sold a fairly new one cheap at a garage sale just before I got into Scroll sawing).

I don't have a planer, so I am stuck using finished boards at my local home centers. There are a couple of large lumber stores but they don't carry but 3/4 boards & 1/2 poplar & oak. NO thin boards. I understand I can buy these online.

As for painting vs staining, I am not set up to spray paint in my garage specially being close to my neighbors. I do have a air brush. I will have to make an effort to paint outdoors without a lot of SMELL

If I decide to air brush, do you think I need to seal the BB with before painting?

Thanks again for all the help.

Sam

[Bill WIlson]

I was referring to breakage of the wood, not blades. 

[hawkeye10]

Hello Group,

I have been busy designing and cutting these Personalized napkin holders.

They are: 1 for my wife and 3 for close friends.

I chose not to put backers. Actually I have never used backers This was too much work as it is. I spent about 2 hours just for cutting each pair of sides. I was going slow.

I stacked cut each pair of panels with FDUR #1. Remember the problem I was having with blades bending backward. I was working on these

Now I am done with cutting, I am not sure how to finish them. I tried a few sample scrap pieces with different stains & just oils. I think I like the finished of red Mahogany.

Would you please throw some advice my way?

I appreciate the help

Thank you

 

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Sam I vote for Danish oil natural. It would be hard to keep paint from getting built up in the tight corners and over time it would get messed up. Also Dan "dgman" right in saying use a hard wood that you like the next time. You did a to good of a job cutting these not to use hard wood. Here is a very good place to buy hard wood if you don't have a good source already and if you don't have the tools to mill wood.

 

http://www.ocoochhardwoods.com/

[Sam777]

I was referring to breakage of the wood, not blades. 

Sorry Bill. Senior moment there

Thanks

[UncleApple]

Hello Group,

I have been busy designing and cutting these Personalized napkin holders.

They are: 1 for my wife and 3 for close friends.

I chose not to put backers. Actually I have never used backers This was too much work as it is. I spent about 2 hours just for cutting each pair of sides. I was going slow.

I stacked cut each pair of panels with FDUR #1. Remember the problem I was having with blades bending backward. I was working on these

Now I am done with cutting, I am not sure how to finish them. I tried a few sample scrap pieces with different stains & just oils. I think I like the finished of red Mahogany.

Would you please throw some advice my way?

I appreciate the help

Thank you

 

P1220278.JPGP1220279.JPGP1220280.JPGP1220281.JPGP1220282.JPG

They look amazing! Great work.  It would have taken me longer than 2 hours... As far as finish, I prefer natural wood...no paint for me. I prefer danish oil to bring out the grain and because application is pretty simple.  For lighter color woods, it can discolor them a little so be sure to test!  If you like the Red Mahogany stain, then by all means...use it!  I'm sure they'll turn out stunning!