Scroll Saw Levels of Expertise

[ike]

Now what would you consider as  a master Scroll Sawer. I have a Sateam locomotive on my Facebook page ( ike's scroll saw workshop) I don't consider that it is of master Scroll sawer but it is the hardist I ever completed., and I don't know what kind of scroller that makes me and I don't care. I am just a scroller that enjoys my work, 

IKE

[OCtoolguy]

Travis, maybe you should change that classification to "poster" instead of "scroller" just to clear up the confusion. I'm considered an "obsessed scroller" if I'm not mistaken but still just a newbie novice to the hobby and I guess I might be considered "obsessed" but by no means am I any good at it. Still just learning. But I do post a lot and try to be involved in the conversations here because I like everybody and it's fun.

 

R

 

[Rockytime]

On 2/10/2017 at 4:53 PM, SCROLLSAW703 said:

 

 

<SNIP> I don't claim to be anybody special, I'm just a retired ol' truckdriver tryin' to keep himself out of the sanitarium! <SNIP>

 

Brad, I don't understand the above statement. JUST an old trucker. There are proud truckers in my family. While my daughter earns an unbelievable salary as the CFO for an oil company and her husband shuttles trailers at night for a large furniture maker. Strange combination? My son-in-law's contribution is as important to the family as my daughters. My favorite cousin trucked cattle his entire career until his retirement. He was a cowboy. Don't know how well I'd be eating were it not for the long haul cowboys.

You are important to all of us.

[Rolf]

One little toot my own horn moment regarding this topic. The first fretwork project I submitted to our local woodworking show for judging was a Jeff Zaffino design. One of the judges was Wes Demarest one of the editors for the former Creative woodworking and Crafts magazine.  This was my first, first place ribbon. I had my new Hawk G4-26 for almost a year at that point.

This was back in April of 2006, I had been scrolling about 2 years at that point. I have to thank my fellow club members for the fast learning curve.

 

If you have a club near you Join!

[Woodmaster1]

I am a self Proclaimed novice not looking to change that status anytime soon. I am sure there are master scrollers on this site based on the pictures of their work.

[SCROLLSAW703]

great job, rolf! Impressive scroll work! It's encouraging to win ribbons & trophies at shows like that, & for folks to see & appreciate your work is even better! A proud moment in your story, my friend! 

I'm sure there are several "master scrollers" here, but, imo, we all are. We all have something in common. We enjoy scrolling. Some of us may be better at fretwork, or puzzles, clocks, bowls, whatever it is, we are able learn from each other & better ourselves in many ways. 
 

[Rolf]

17 hours ago, SCROLLSAW703 said:

I'm sure there are several "master scrollers" here, but, imo, we all are. We all have something in common. We enjoy scrolling. Some of us may be better at fretwork, or puzzles, clocks, bowls, whatever it is, we are able learn from each other & better ourselves in many ways. 
 

I agree wholeheartedly. We were all beginners at some point. Forums like this and the SSWWC are a great resource for getting opinions of your work should you choose to  ask for it. We are all happy to help anyone to take their work to the next level.

[Jim McDonald]

Some of the stuff I gave away the first Christmas I was scrolling HAD to be hideous in retrospect.  I have grown in my abilities and still challenge myself regularly, but there is no way I would ever consider myself a "master"--competent, maybe. 

I have just practiced my eye/hand coordination to the point where I am able to do some justice to the designs that so many great artists have toiled over.

[SCROLLSAW703]

Mr. Jim, make no mistake about the gifts you hand crafted on your saw & gave as gifts. Most likely them that received them are just as happy, or more so than had you'd of given them things you bought from the five & dime. They all have a part of you in each one of those gifts, & it's somethin' they'll cherish forever. They couldn't get that from the store.

I make most all of our Christmas gifts, too. We have all types of folks in our families, from the ungrateful to no matter what it is, it ain't good enough. I've learned to try & pick projects that suit them all. At times, my sarcasm kicks in, & you'd be surprised at what they end up with;);):)

Learnin' the saw & gettin' it to do what we expect of it takes a lot of practice, practice, & well, more practice. Hand & eye coordination are critical to turnin' out a successful project. As are creativity, listening, patience, & learnin'. 

When I first started scrolling 25 years ago, before the internet rage, & videos, I spent more time readin' about it, learnin' wood species, finishin', blades, etc., than I did actual saw time the first year. I was still trucking then, & on the road A LOT, so I took books from library with me to read. After I read every book our meager little library had at least once, some more than once, I convinced myself I was ready to try it. Man! did I create the customized firewood til I started gettin the feel of things, figgerin' out my second hand single speed Craftsman saw. I made some perty ugly projects on that ol' gal til I wore it out. Then we bought a shiny new Hitachi. Man! that was like goin' from a volkswagen to new Peterbilt!;) I spent every minute my bride allowed me to on that saw when I was home. 

Eventually, my projects began to look like I kinda knew what I was doin'. I started makin' Birthday gifts, per my brides' orders. Anniversary gifts, baby toys, & Christmas gifts. Even picture frames & things. 

I'd read several times over about the hand & eye coordination, & it came fairly quick after I got the rest of it figgered out. Then the saw became my addiction! It was an awesome way for me to just forget about the headaches of the road & my other drivers for awhile! I managed to get the scroll saw perfected, & in 25 years of scrollin', I've worn out 3 saws, one bein' a Hawk. I still have my CW - 40 Hitachi. Another 16" Craftsman, & a BM 26 Hawk.

Since I retired 6 years ago, & had to get off the road, I jumped into woodworking deeper, bought a few more toys, lathes, etc. We rent the 400 sq. ft. shop space we're in. My health keeps me from doin' as much as I'd like, but I enjoy scrolling & wood working to much to give up. Just keep practicin', & spendin' time with your saw. You'll be awesome before ya know it, & will have the right to say "that's my work" anytime ya want!;):) keep makin' sawdust, brother! You're the master of your ability!;)
 

[ScollSaw Slasher]

Ah yes Brad, that CW-40 was a great learning saw for me as well. It really cut beautifully for less then $200. It had one quirk though. About every two or three months, it just wouldn't turn on. I'd do everything to it, but just wouldn't turn on. Then, two hours later or the next morning when I was going to toss into the can, it magically would start cutting like a banshee again. Did sell it though because I needed the room. But great memories and it cut some beautiful projects.

Blake

[kmmcrafts]

I've been sawing for 12 years now and seriously scrolling for about 5 + or - years.. with production cutting.. I'm turning 50 years old in November.. I'm thinking the best scrolling expert level i'll achieve in my lifetime will be expert at producing ornamental firewood..  

[Rolf]

Having a seamstress for a Mother and a toolmaker for a Father, did not hurt my scrolling comfort levels. 

 

Kevin "I'm thinking the best scrolling expert level i'll achieve in my lifetime will be expert at producing ornamental firewood..  " made me laugh.

[SCROLLSAW703]

Kevin, Your achievements will overcome you with age, my friend.;) I've got two years in age on ya, & A few more years experience, but I've learned a lot from you & your posts. Don't sell yourself short, my friend. You have a lot of good experience that is helpful to us all here at the village.:)

There's a lot I've done on the scroll saw, but there's a lot I want to learn, too. I consider myself a beginner in many ways because I learn from folks like you, Kevin. I'm not a production cutter, in some ways beyond hobbyist, in other ways, the head broom pusher. Enjoy it while ya can! Share your knowledge with others, & most of all, keep on bein' who you are, Sir! 

[SCROLLSAW703]

Mr. Blake, my CW - 40 is the first saw I bought new 23 years ago. Shortly after we bought it, the saw was obsolete. Hitachi stopped production of the saw:( which was a disappointment to me, bcause after startin' out on a single speed Craftsman, this saw was the bees knees for the money! I still own mine, & use it on occasion. I've replaced the power switch, variable speed switch, air bellows & loc line. Otherwise, I've kept it blown out, clean & maintained, and it still cuts like new! 

I've read a lot of reviews on the saw since I've owned mine, & some are good, & like always, some ain't so good. One of the problems with it that stood out in the reviews to me was the issues with circuit board at the back of the saw. And for a long time, it was obsolete, but I have seen replacements on their website. 

I wouldn't trade mine for anything, Blake. I was lookin' for another one when I found my first Hawk. I wore it out & traded for the BM 26 I have now. If I found another new CW - 40, at the right price, I'd buy it. 

[kmmcrafts]

2 hours ago, SCROLLSAW703 said:

Kevin, Your achievements will overcome you with age, my friend.;) I've got two years in age on ya, & A few more years experience, but I've learned a lot from you & your posts. Don't sell yourself short, my friend. You have a lot of good experience that is helpful to us all here at the village.:)

There's a lot I've done on the scroll saw, but there's a lot I want to learn, too. I consider myself a beginner in many ways because I learn from folks like you, Kevin. I'm not a production cutter, in some ways beyond hobbyist, in other ways, the head broom pusher. Enjoy it while ya can! Share your knowledge with others, & most of all, keep on bein' who you are, Sir! 

Thank you for the kind words.. 

On a more serious note.. I kinda said what I said because I don't consider myself a expert.. not really anywhere near being a newbie either.. 

I personally think there are too many types of scrolling styles and materials to be scrolled that one would have to be cutting all their lives to be in a ( what I would consider ) expert level... everyone will certainly have their opinion of what that expert level means just as I do.. 

Some might consider themselves an expert scroll sawer.. but the only style of cutting they've ever done might be portraits.. or puzzles.. etc etc.. I've done a lot of portrait and ornaments cutting as well as quite a lot of 1/2 - 3/4 inch thick hardwood clocks... To me to be an expert.. I'd say you'd have to master all the types of cutting styles and materials.. 

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

I will toot my own horn and say I am very good. The only part of scrolling I have not done is Intarsia work. I could probably easily pick it up but just too many other things going on. I feel once you learn to do fret work there is nothing you can not do. puzzles, portraits 3D cutting are all based on fret work scrolling. Learning to cut circles and curves without humps and to cut straight lines without straying makes for an excellent scroller. That is how I judge ones talent. Crisp inside corners as well as crisp outside points or turns count too. Intarsia work deals with having a good eye for both color grain direction and depth of field so I believe this part of the scrolling is the most challenging. You also use more tools other than a scrollsaw to do that kind of work and to me is more artistry related. I have done marquetry too and this can be challenging but again is basic scrolling. 

So call it what you want expert, master, or just very good, all comes down to learning to do fret work well. My opinion.

[kmmcrafts]

10 hours ago, JTTHECLOCKMAN said:

I will toot my own horn and say I am very good. The only part of scrolling I have not done is Intarsia work. I could probably easily pick it up but just too many other things going on. I feel once you learn to do fret work there is nothing you can not do. puzzles, portraits 3D cutting are all based on fret work scrolling. Learning to cut circles and curves without humps and to cut straight lines without straying makes for an excellent scroller. That is how I judge ones talent. Crisp inside corners as well as crisp outside points or turns count too. Intarsia work deals with having a good eye for both color grain direction and depth of field so I believe this part of the scrolling is the most challenging. You also use more tools other than a scrollsaw to do that kind of work and to me is more artistry related. I have done marquetry too and this can be challenging but again is basic scrolling. 

So call it what you want expert, master, or just very good, all comes down to learning to do fret work well. My opinion.

JT, as I said before... many people will have different opinions on what a expert is.. I mentioned many different things, but left out time being one of them.. coming from someone that is a production cutter.. and business.. I feel most anyone can achieve the things you mentioned as pumping out quality work if they took their time.. but coming from a production standpoint.. If I was looking to hire a scroll sawer to help with production.. those things you mentioned would be what I'd be looking for... as well as the amount of time they took.. I couldn't pay someone $20 hr. to produce $5 hr worth of inventory.. 

I'm in no way saying you and many others that have been doing this for years do not deserve that expert title.. I feel I am very good at what I do.. just as you do.. but giving myself the expert title based only on the quality of work only.. I'd have been able to give myself that title after the first year I started scroll sawing.. pumping out a whole 2- 3 ornaments a day.. now I cut about 15 - 20 an hour.. still the same high quality work.. just lots more experience with that..  I don't give myself that expert level because I'm not proficient at all styles of cutting... the quality is there.. but the production time is not... For instance.. I cut some puzzles that Iggy says he does in 20 minutes... since he only cuts puzzles he is very good at it.. Took me about 30 - 35 minutes to cut the same puzzle..

Again.. everyone has a different expectation or idea of what that expert title actually would mean...  Also again.. not saying you and many others are not at that expert level.. I'm merely stating why I don't consider myself as being an expert.. I can pump out the quality in many various styles and materials .. but in a timely manor? most likely not..   

 

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

There is nothing wrong in saying and accepting accolades for being good at something. Celebrate it and make it part of your business line. I will not back off my account of being good because I paid my dues and it took me some time to get good. I have not seen anyone call themselves an expert here. I do believe this thread has gone the way of a different direction than what was intended. There is in my eyes only one expert and that is The Good Lord Almighty. 

Edited May 23, 2018 by JTTHECLOCKMAN

[SCROLLSAW703]

In the sense of the word, expert can be taken out of pretense to the point of judgmental. Time & experience are inevitably two of the common factors that make that so called expert. Also, having the pride & ability to do all types of scrolling efficiently. I'm good at what I do, too, JT. But I'm not interested in other folks hearing that from me. JT, I personally believe most of us here have something to "toot our own horn about." We've done a lot of what we like to do, which has brought us all to this site. 

Kevin, in all honesty, I was giving you respect & compliments for your abilities & knowledge, Not meaning to say, or give you the wrong impression. I have great respect for you because of what I've learned from you. I'm far from a newbie myself, but have an open enough mind to learn from others. I think some folks get the idea they've been doin' something so long, Conceit sets in, & then judgement, on & on. I don't feel that here. Not once since I've been a member here. And that is a big part of what has kept me here. The friendship, the personal support from all the members, the willingness to jump in & help each other with our issues whether it be health, personal, scrolling, wood, blades, whatever it is. IMO, there is no better place to be to get involved with other scrollers. I'm involved with other sites. But this is the bees knees!

The joy of reading threads like this one is learning everyone's high points & low points, & helping one another reach their achievements they're striving for. Not just reading the gloatin' & better than you bs I see on other sites. I'd much rather be able to use my time & experience at the saw to help someone. That's what we're about, & the joys of having the wisdom & knowledge we're blessed with.
 

Edited May 24, 2018 by SCROLLSAW703

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

3 minutes ago, SCROLLSAW703 said:

In the sense of the word, expert can be taken out of pretense to the point of judgmental. Time & experience are inevitably two of the common factors that make that so called expert. Also, having the pride & ability to do all types of scrolling efficiently. I'm good at what I do, too, JT. But I'm not interested in other folks hearing that from me. JT, I personally believe most of us here have something to "toot our own horn about." We've done a lot of what we like to do, which has brought us all to this site. 

Kevin, in all honesty, I was giving you respect & compliments for your abilities & knowledge, Not meaning to say, or give you the wrong impression. I have great respect for you because of what I've learned from you.

The joy of reading threads like this one is learning everyone's high points & low points, & helping one another reach their achievements they're striving for. Not just reading the gloatin' & better than you bs I see on other sites. I'd much rather be able to use my time & experience at the saw to help someone. That's what we're about, & the joys of having the wisdom & knowledge we're blessed with.
 

Brad once again this is what happens things get read and interpreted in each person's mind. I was making comment to a few posts ago and that is why i am tooting my own horn. My point was there are no experts here but very good scrollers and I happen to be one too. If you do not want to read my posts then don't what do I care. I think everyone here tries to help each other. 

This thread started out asking about the catagories written under the sign-on names and has evolved into what an expert is. That is all this topic was about. 

[SCROLLSAW703]

Ya know JT, you're right. I always read your posts. politely, sometimes I agree, sometimes I don't. I don't have any ill feelin's towards ya, by no means. 

[kmmcrafts]

9 hours ago, SCROLLSAW703 said:

In the sense of the word, expert can be taken out of pretense to the point of judgmental. Time & experience are inevitably two of the common factors that make that so called expert. Also, having the pride & ability to do all types of scrolling efficiently. I'm good at what I do, too, JT. But I'm not interested in other folks hearing that from me. JT, I personally believe most of us here have something to "toot our own horn about." We've done a lot of what we like to do, which has brought us all to this site. 

Kevin, in all honesty, I was giving you respect & compliments for your abilities & knowledge, Not meaning to say, or give you the wrong impression. I have great respect for you because of what I've learned from you. I'm far from a newbie myself, but have an open enough mind to learn from others. I think some folks get the idea they've been doin' something so long, Conceit sets in, & then judgement, on & on. I don't feel that here. Not once since I've been a member here. And that is a big part of what has kept me here. The friendship, the personal support from all the members, the willingness to jump in & help each other with our issues whether it be health, personal, scrolling, wood, blades, whatever it is. IMO, there is no better place to be to get involved with other scrollers. I'm involved with other sites. But this is the bees knees!

The joy of reading threads like this one is learning everyone's high points & low points, & helping one another reach their achievements they're striving for. Not just reading the gloatin' & better than you bs I see on other sites. I'd much rather be able to use my time & experience at the saw to help someone. That's what we're about, & the joys of having the wisdom & knowledge we're blessed with.
 

This was an awesome reply!! very well said... Brad

 

[SCROLLSAW703]

Thank you Mr. Kevin, I appreciate your kind words, my friends. I'm an honest fella, & speak my mind, but from the heart as much as possible. I strive to be the best man I can be. I also believe respect is earned, not given. Our social skills are as much of a valuable tool here as are our abilities. 

Regardless of the level of expertise you have, there is always something to learn from someone. New friends to make, new folks to help up the trail. That's my take on it.