Error in judgement, any advice appreciated

[UncleApple]

I believe I made an error in judgement.  I recently finished cutting a chess set out of 1-1/2 inch stock, so I made the decision to stack 3 half-inch boards in order to cut a version of a band saw box.  This is my first error...The cuts are taking forever and I've burnt the wood many times over.  I slowed my speed down to a snail on death row, and this has helped some, but I'd like to finish the project this year.  I'm using a #9 FDSR blade...thinking this would help the process along.  My second error is that I stacked 2 planks of padauk on top of a piece of curly maple.  The orange of the padauk is severely bleeding into the curly maple.  I'm starting to think that I may end up with a real mess. I'd love to take everything apart, but I don't think that this is an option that will work for what I need.

 

My other struggles include the fact that I think the wood stack has a slight bow in it. Depending on where I press down on the wood, the feed rate changes.  I'm also still learning the DW788. I believe that my blade is tilted to the rear which allows for the blade to cut at the bottom of the stack differently than at the top.  Lastly, I also think that I end up experiencing times where the blade twists.  I know everyone says to change blades often, but I can't change midway through a cut, given what I need the wood for...no room to make a relief unless I plan on filling a bunch of holes later on.

 

Help?

[Paladin]

To cut down on the burn, try a large-size FD Polar blade.  They will stay cooler.  You can change a blade mid-cut, it helps to be on a straight spot, but the new blade will slip into the cut line left by the old one.  I had to do this a few times while cutting bloodwood last year.

 

Steve

[Bill WIlson]

Sorry to hear of your troubles.  My first suggestion would be to try a skip tooth blade, such as an FD Polar.  They are a little better suited for cutting hard, thick material.  Slow your feed rate down.  I know you probably already are, but bending & twisting the blade sometimes indicates you are pushing harder than the blade can cut.  With a skip tooth blade, you might be able to get away with a smaller size than the #9, which may help making tight turns.

 

As for the Paduak bleeding into the maple, that's a bear.  Not sure how to remedy that.  Hopefully someone else will chime in on that one.

 

The feed rate changing during the cut may be due to the wood itself.  I've never cut Paduak, so I'm not familiar with it, but in some woods, there are harder & softer parts of the grain that will create a noticeable difference in how the blade is cutting as you cross over different densities in the grain.  I'm not sure if Paduak is like this, but it's a thought.

 

I know that, a while back, there used to be a lot of complaints on the forums about some Dewalt's tendency to over or under cut from top to bottom.  I haven't heard much about that lately, so don't know of Dewalt recognized a flaw in their manufacturing or what, but there were a few modifications that folks were trying to line things up a little better.  I think there may be some advice on Rick Hutcheson's website about that problem.

 

Good luck, hope this helps.

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

You got good advice already and I can not help much. Definetly need a skip tooth blade and a large one. Cutting that much wood and that dense of wood will put a huge strain on a blade and a saw. The maple is what is slowing you down plus the different grain directions I am sure are happening in there. Yes you can stop and change blades in mid cut. I have done it many times. Just let the saw catch up to your cut once again and let the blade do the cutting. 

 

This may have been one time when you should have done a bandsaw box instead of using a scrollsaw. The angle of the cuts and the thin kerf will make things hard to slide a drawer out if that is what you are doing.

 

 

I am sorry but the mix of the 2 materials will haunt you right to the end and I have no way of you to stop the bleeding especially when cutting. 

 

As far as the saw goes, I too have not heard or read of that problem much any more. It was at one time a huge problem with the type #1 Dewalts. I made a fix on mine if you want me to post it I can. It is a simple fix. 

 

All I can say is good luck with this one. 

[WayneMahler]

Great advice has been given. I have worked with Paduak. This wood is very oily and that is what causes the bleed. You can try the above with a skip tooth blade and slow feed rate. Did you wrap the piece with packing tape? Between the skip tooth, slow feed and packing tape should help reduce the heat. Thinking is lower heat less bleed caused by the heat of the blade. 

[SCROLLSAW703]

I've never worked with paduak, but do work with plenty of maple, oak, cherry, walnut, bloodwood, & other woods. I would keep at it with your #9 blade, but as mentioned, go to a polar blade. There is a difference between a polar blade & a skip tooth blade. The polar blade has teeth the full length of the blade. One may disagree, but, The polar blade will cut a smaller kerf, & cleaner cut. In hardwood, they will cut better, too. 

 

As far as wrapping your pieces in packing tape to reduce heat, I can't say as I fully agree with that suggestion. I been at this a day or two myself, & have never seen the need to wrap any of my projects in packin' tape for any reason. Heat comes from speed. The faster you try to cut, the more heat you're going to create. If anything, get yourself a piece of candle & rub your blade with that. The biggest thing to remember is you're cuttin' hardwood, & lots of it at a time, so findin' a pace that you can cut a smooth cut, & keepin' a smooth feed at the same time. Hardwood has a mind of it's own, & cuts the same way on a scroll saw. 
 

I don't know a flippin' thing about DeWalt Saws, old or new. But if your blade isn't runnin' straight up & down, & back & forth on the older saws, you'll run through blades like sh*t through a tin horn! That blade needs to be 90* all around. 

 

You can change a blade in mid cut without any issues. Just pull the old blade out & replace it. If ya have to get into a tight cut, run the blade through the cut, & then in your blade holders. 

Edited March 3, 2017 by SCROLLSAW703

[tomsteve]

is it possible that the bleeding you see is just the dust from the padauk? ive stack cut padauk mixed with oak and it appeared to bleed, but it was just the dust from the padauk.

did you slow down the saw speed or your own feed rate- not as much pressure?

in thicker cuts, the saw doesn't have a long enough stroke to clear out the gullets, which that causes the blades to heat up and burn the wood. I slow down the saw speed and when cutting i  feed in a pecking manner- feed in a bit, then let off pressure to allow the dust to clear the gullets. repeat. this also helps keep the cut perpendicular through the depth of cut.

[SCROLLSAW703]

In reading your post again, you mentioned you thought your stack may be bowed. Run your stack over a jointer on both sides to flatten it. That will take your bow out. At least for now. You also mentioned you thought your blade was cutting at some what of an angle towards the bottom. As I mentioned in my first post, your blade needs to be 90* all around. In lookin' at a couple parts diagrams of your saw, is everything square & tight? Any slack in any bearings? I'm wondering if one of your arms is out of alignment? Take a business card & check the blade for square on all four sides with tension on the blade. Make sure you use the the same edge on all four sides of the blade. From there, if your blade is out of square, you've got mechanical issues someplace, most likely with the arms. 

 

You also mentioned burning. Like I said before, speed creates heat. But, on the other hand, if you're using to big of a blade, you're going to burn the project, too. Try backin' off to a #7 polar blade, & adjust your speed accordingly. Maple burns like oak & cherry, especially cuttin' cross grain.

 

Remember to, that the smaller the blade, the less tension you'll want. The bigger the blade, the more tension. If your blade is tryin' to turn when you make a turn, you don't have enough tension on your blade enough. Which in turn, can cause burning. 

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Applying tape is a lubricant and not a heat absorber. If you want to say that a lubricant will cause less heat then fine. A blade will cut just fine with a positive rake or a negative rake on the blade. In fact some saws you can adjust this. Such as the RBI so that statement is false. I agree the blade needs to be straight on the sides if you are not tilting the table. Again not quite sure what type cutting you are doing. When the rake of the blade is not perpendicular it will cut more aggresively either on the top or the bottom depending on which way the table is tilted. At times this is a good thing and in this case it just might be. Now when doing fret work you do not want that type of rake because it will over cut either on the bottom or the top and the cut edge will not be straight up and down.

 

Padauk will create a lot of red or orange dust and that is what is contaminating the pores of the maple. Maybe it will brush away when finished. Wait till you are done to make that assessment.  good luck. 

[amazingkevin]

You got good advice already and I can not help much. Definetly need a skip tooth blade and a large one. Cutting that much wood and that dense of wood will put a huge strain on a blade and a saw. The maple is what is slowing you down plus the different grain directions I am sure are happening in there. Yes you can stop and change blades in mid cut. I have done it many times. Just let the saw catch up to your cut once again and let the blade do the cutting. 

 

This may have been one time when you should have done a bandsaw box instead of using a scrollsaw. The angle of the cuts and the thin kerf will make things hard to slide a drawer out if that is what you are doing.

 

 

I am sorry but the mix of the 2 materials will haunt you right to the end and I have no way of you to stop the bleeding especially when cutting. 

 

As far as the saw goes, I too have not heard or read of that problem much any more. It was at one time a huge problem with the type #1 Dewalts. I made a fix on mine if you want me to post it I can. It is a simple fix. 

 

All I can say is good luck with this one. 

Yes please post your modification

[amazingkevin]

In reading your post again, you mentioned you thought your stack may be bowed. Run your stack over a jointer on both sides to flatten it. That will take your bow out. At least for now. You also mentioned you thought your blade was cutting at some what of an angle towards the bottom. As I mentioned in my first post, your blade needs to be 90* all around. In lookin' at a couple parts diagrams of your saw, is everything square & tight? Any slack in any bearings? I'm wondering if one of your arms is out of alignment? Take a business card & check the blade for square on all four sides with tension on the blade. Make sure you use the the same edge on all four sides of the blade. From there, if your blade is out of square, you've got mechanical issues someplace, most likely with the arms. 

 

You also mentioned burning. Like I said before, speed creates heat. But, on the other hand, if you're using to big of a blade, you're going to burn the project, too. Try backin' off to a #7 polar blade, & adjust your speed accordingly. Maple burns like oak & cherry, especially cuttin' cross grain.

 

Remember to, that the smaller the blade, the less tension you'll want. The bigger the blade, the more tension. If your blade is tryin' to turn when you make a turn, you don't have enough tension on your blade enough. Which in turn, can cause burning. 

Thanks Brad for reminding me about squareness of the blade.It's easy to forget to check if your not scrolling often.And yes mine was out of plumb,Thanks!

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Yes please post your modification

 

 

Shim goes in the back of the saw and it is whatever thickness you need to correct the undercutting. need to enlarge the 2 holes on the side of the saw also. 

Edited March 4, 2017 by JTTHECLOCKMAN

[SCROLLSAW703]

Anytime Mr. Kevin. My Main saw is a BM - 26 Hawk. It has an adjustment underneath the table that can tilt the blade more to the front, or straighten it up to 90*. The more the blade is adjusted forward, the more aggressive the cut. 

 

There are several variables that could be causing the events in your situation. I was thinkin' out loud, so to speak. No offense intended. Good luck to you. 

[JimErn]

All good advice and as new as I am to this hobby I probably should not chime in.  When I stack cut I use hot glue along the edges of the stack, just works better for me than taping the edges.  I had that bleed kind of thing once, the next time I put pieces of wax paper between each piece in the stack, that worked for me.

[Rolf]

So you are cutting a stack of 1" paduk and 1/2" maple. That is a tough nut to start with. All good advice above. The wood needs to lay flat on the table or it will bind on you.

What glue did you use? Some glues like carpenters glue will soften when heated and can be separated.

[redwine]

I will chime in with what I have experienced with the wood padauk  and cutting with maple  wood together. It will bleed or discolor maple really bad and it seems to stay permanent. When ever I choose to cut padauk, it is cut separate from other woods. I don't know if it will bleed into or onto other woods or not, just never took the chance.

As far as blades go, I would not use any of the FD ultra reverse blades and instead use the skip tooth blade preferably with out the reverse teeth at the bottom. I have always used the Pegus modified blades for cutting thick compound  designs using the #5 or #7 blade at a moderate speed. You can use the tape but for myself it was a waste as I use a clamp to hold the wood while cutting it. The clamp I use is from Steve Good's patterns listed under tools.

If your wood is bowed, twisted or anything not flat, you have a problem before you begin. Also make absolutely sure that your saw table is 90 degree's to the blade and check it often as you cut out the "bandsaw" box. They are possible to cut on the scroll saw but takes time to get them right!

You have received a lot of very good advise, you will persevere I am sure!

Erv 

[crupiea]

On the bright side it was a nice day and you were inside and could smell the sweet scent of burning wood.  always a nice smell,

 

not the end of the world.  its just a couple of small pieces of wood.  

 

we really have a nice life when these are are troubles.

[UncleApple]

Thanks everyone...great advice as always.  I decided to remove the Curly Maple from the stack of Padauk.  This reduced my stack-thickness to 1-inch.  Then I put in a new blade and made sure it was lined up properly.  I don't own any Polar blades, yet, so I replaced with a new #9 FDSR.  Then I slowed my saw speed down even further.

 

The steps above helped significantly. No more burning & the cutting, despite the slower saw speed, is going much faster...plus I don't have to worry about bleeding into the Curly Maple.

 

Hope that by taking these steps I can finish this project without making a complete mess of things.  Thanks everyone!

 

P.S. - I researched and found that the Janka value of Padauk is considerably higher than Curly Maple...so I believe that in the future I'll steer clear of thicker Padauk stock.