hotshot Posted March 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2017 Top feeders may not like the Hawk.... isn't it bottom feed as is the Jet? No the current BM models and the G4 before that can both top feed --------Randy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lost_in_endicott Posted March 12, 2017 Report Share Posted March 12, 2017 I don't think the price is out of line. Look how much Seyco wants for the Jet with a stand. If the new saw was available last summer when I bought my EX-16, I might have went for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodmaster1 Posted March 12, 2017 Report Share Posted March 12, 2017 I just got the Delta 40-694 and stand yesterday. Saw runs great quiet and smooth. The stand went together easy even without instructions, I got instructions for a zero clearance throat plate instead. The saw itself was real easy to put together. Two bolts on the table and I was done because I don't use the blade guard. The air hose was connected unlike earlier versions. Price for the saw and stand $359 for saw and $74 for the stand. The saw is the Dewalt wrapped in a different case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimC Posted March 12, 2017 Report Share Posted March 12, 2017 I was pricing the Excalibur EX-21s just before they became unavailable and, if my old memory isn't failing me, they were priced comparably to the new Seycos. I also think the new Jet and the Seyco are pretty close in price. I think the price for the Seyco is fair if it is as good as most people say the Excaliburs were. I will be waiting for a few hands on reviews. I believe I read somewhere that WSS magazine is scheduled to review it in their next issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOE_M Posted May 13, 2017 Report Share Posted May 13, 2017 I know it's an old thread, but I'm resurrecting it because this saw should go on sale on Monday. I've watched the Steve Good video review - any other info out there? I'm really interested in seeing what the shipping cost will be. I'm saving up for the RBI Hawk and it bugs me to no end that after I scrape together the $1200 for the saw, I have to find another $150 for shipping (or drive 1000 miles to pick it up in person in KS - or are they drop shipping from overseas?) If postage isn't too bad, and there isn't a 6-month wait, I might be spending some $$$ on Monday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappile Posted May 13, 2017 Report Share Posted May 13, 2017 Well if you reserve a Seyco right how the special price includes shipping. JOE_M 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotshot Posted May 13, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2017 (edited) You know, when I was living in Murfreesboro, the General warehouse was just a couple of miles from me. I tried to get Seyco to save me the shipping and drop ship it to me, or let me pick it up, well, they didn't go for it, and I had to pay shipping anyway. So it left Murfreesboro, traveled all the way to Seyco, then back to Murfreesboro. So, having to pay shipping for the Hawk doesn't surprise me. I suppose if you did go and pick it up, you would have to pay tax, so maybe part of shipping cancels itself out. I have to say, when I saw the original pricing for the EX, I was a little disappointed. Without General as the middleman, I was expecting the new Seyco saw to be less expensive, not more. However, if you take into account the free shipping, that brings that saw back to the price point closer to what I was expecting. So kudos to Seyco for that. In any case, both saws you are looking at are great, so whatever you decide, you win. By the way, the Hawk is made in KS, probably by the same folks that answer the phone. Like the EX before it, my understanding is that the new Seyco saw if built in the same factory in Taiwan. ----Randy Edited May 13, 2017 by hotshot JOE_M 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOE_M Posted May 13, 2017 Report Share Posted May 13, 2017 25 minutes ago, Scrappile said: Well if you reserve a Seyco right how the special price includes shipping. It doesn't say that on their website, or I missed it. There is a button for putting it on a wishlist, I clicked that and got a page saying I need to create an account and I really didn't want to go trough all that trouble to find out that it's not included. 19 minutes ago, hotshot said: By the way, the Hawk is made in KS, probably by the same folks that answer the phone. Like the EX before it, my understanding is that the new Seyco saw if built in the same factory in Taiwan. ----Randy Thanks, that's good info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappile Posted May 13, 2017 Report Share Posted May 13, 2017 If the new Seyco is as good as my Ex, I guess I have no problem with that. The Ex was never made in America. least that is my understanding, it was made in Canada to begin with (?) I am thinking of getting a Seyco. Not totally sure yet. My Hegner was made in Germany, and it is a great saw. I really wish there were some shows in the North West that the vendors came to so I could get a good look at the saws and get a real feel for them. But I don't know of any. I would love to sit at a new Bushton Hawk and a new Seyco Saw and see which one fits me better.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappile Posted May 13, 2017 Report Share Posted May 13, 2017 (edited) 18 minutes ago, JOE_M said: It doesn't say that on their website, or I missed it. There is a button for putting it on a wishlist, I clicked that and got a page saying I need to create an account and I really didn't want to go trough all that trouble to find out that it's not included. Thanks, that's good info. "plus FREE SHIPPING" To reserve one you click on the add and scroll down and there is a little contact form to fill out or a number you can call to get on the list. The "Wishlist" doesn't do it. But if it did the only thing needed to register is an email address and a password... Edited May 13, 2017 by Scrappile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappile Posted May 13, 2017 Report Share Posted May 13, 2017 Not sure my post above is readable, after I clicked post, it looked very funny. Anyway on their home page is says "plus FREE SHIPPING" To reserve one you click on the add and scroll down and there is a little contact form to fill out or a number you can call to get on the list. The "Wishlist" doesn't do it. But if it did the only thing needed to register is an email address and a password... JOE_M 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOE_M Posted May 13, 2017 Report Share Posted May 13, 2017 (edited) Thanks. Do you have a link for that pic - I can't find it on their website. Edit: Nevermind, got it. Thanks again. You were typing while I was typing, yes the post with the photos looks weird, but I can see it. I just clicked on their home page and I see the ad now. I had been using google and landing directly on the product page where it doesn't say much except available by 15 May. Edited May 13, 2017 by JOE_M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmmcrafts Posted May 13, 2017 Report Share Posted May 13, 2017 Something to consider with a saw that is priced out so close to a Hawk.. and a couple reasons why I sort of feel as though the Hawk is really more bang for your buck.. First off is I think the quality of the Hawk is better than that of a EX's Not sure about the new seyco saw.. but I know the EX's have the same design as a DeWalt as for the open needle bearings.. Hawk uses sealed ball bearings.. Most any saw I have seen... has cast or stamped steel parts... I think most all the parts in a Hawk are machined by a machine shop.. should either of these companies go out of business.. it's be a lot easier to find a machine shop to make the parts you may end up needing than someone to cast a part without a mold.. or stamp out a piece of steel.. I sort of think that a Hawk would probably out last most of us with good care and maintenance.. Don't get me wrong.. I like EX's too.. and think the new Seyco saw is a nice saw.. but honestly think the Hawks will be around longer than us.. and not sure I can say the same on a EX or Seyco saw.. Plus buying a USA made saw keeps Americans to work.. Kevin Dave Monk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappile Posted May 13, 2017 Report Share Posted May 13, 2017 (edited) Well I have to agree with a lot of what you say, I do not doubt that the Hawk will last longer, I would love to give one a try. I also know my Hegner will out last me and whoever inherits it and maybe their children. But I do feel the Ex, will also out last a DeWalt. At least I read of far more problems with the DeWalt than I heard of about the the Ex's. I have owned both, I sold the Dewalt after I had it a couple year because I read of so many problems I had heard of and mine was starting to deteriorate. Make noises, losing tension. I had my Ex longer with no problems what so ever and I used it far more than I did the DeWalt. And a person should be able to expect that, the Ex cost a lot more than the Dewalt did. And I certainly would expect a Hawk to be better made than a Seyco or Ex. They are another step up. But I do not think they are that much smoother running. (keep in mind, I have never even sat at one) my Ex was a fine, fine running machine . The Hawk is a little more manual as far as changing blades, as is my Hegner. But the Hawk is also around 1/3 more.... $929 for the Seyco verses $1400+ $150 shipping for the Hawk. I am 73, do I really want to spend that much more just to have a saw that out lives me. I think my Ex, taken good care of would out live me, maybe a DeWalt also,,,, darn that is depressing,,, time for another wine. The Ex and hopefully the Seyco are easier to use when it comes to delicate fret work, I know this for a fact. You can not convince me otherwise. That is what I do most and probably always will do most. When I do heavier cuts, compound cutting, thick wood, I sit in front of the Hegner. Well not entirely true I do a lot of Fret work on my Hegner also. I usually have one blade in the Heg and another in the Ex and I switch back and forth. Less blade changes that way. But I rattle on. I enjoy the discussion, please do not be offended by what I write. It is just a discussion. I will not get into the discussion about American made verses foreign made. That is a whole neither argument, that could go on forever. I do know the world is very small anymore and we have to step up to that.... Okay this is just all my opinion which is worth you know what. I sold my Ex, yesterday, not sure why other than I like to change saws like I use to like to change cars. I have my name in for a Seyco. Not positive I will follow through with it, may wait a while, may just get by with one saw, my Hegner. Who knows. Edited May 13, 2017 by Scrappile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmmcrafts Posted May 13, 2017 Report Share Posted May 13, 2017 One thing to consider when you say " you hear of many more problems with a DeWalt " .... Dewalts are a entry / mid level saw.. so I would have to say.. there are probably 2 - 3 times or more of those saws out there being used as opposed to the higher end saws.. so with more of them being used I suppose you'd hear more about any issues one might have. For what it's worth.. I am not trying to degrade any of the brands I had mentioned.. I do fretwork the most as well and find that my Hawk is just as easy as my DeWalt.. once I gave it some time to learn the ins and outs of the Hawk.. I will say that I don't think my Hawk is as smooth running through all the speed ranges as my DeWalt.. I've had my DeWalt since 2009.. run it about 30+ hours a week stack cutting ornaments cutting 3 - 6 at a time.. have rebuilt ( bearings & sleeves ) 2 times and ready for it again.. I don't have the money for a Hawk either.. nor do i have the money for a Seyco.. and I don't need the larger throat size.. If i were to get a saw.. I probably would buy the new named EX-16 equivalent saw.. Guess I am getting this thread off topic.. My reply above was more geared to the person that has the money saved to buy another new Hawk.. if they are used to the way a Hawk runs and have the money for another.. other than the shipping cost.. I think if it was me.. I'd still hold out for the Hawk.. simply because it's what they been used to and saved for a new one.. They are very well made..as is the other saws mentioned.. while I don't think the others are designed to do production type cutting such as I do.. On a side note: I'd like to have a large line-up of all the saws currently on the market.. and everyone gets a week with each one.. then decide what saw is best for their needs.. as I said.. all the saws are well built.. from the DeWalts on up.. for their intended use...but not all those saws fit the needs / wants of every scroll sawer.. Carry on with the Seyco discussion Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimErn Posted May 13, 2017 Report Share Posted May 13, 2017 Well I know I am going to be in minority, and I am probably committing heresy or something, but the new Seyco saw does not impress me much at all. With the caveat that I am a bottom feeder ... I put some contact paper on mine with those lines replicated - I find them to be distracting and useless. That magnetic layer should be an option, lines for top feeders and plain for simple folks like me. Larger table is nice, but required for all? And it pushes you back from the blade some. Table size could have been an upgrade option. The angle gauge I have no desire for, I do not do angled cuts presently, (I might someday) but it should be an option. Having to go through the zero the gage routine and then adjust just seems tiresome. One scroller I met at a trade fair, he stopped by and talked while his wife shopped the other vendors, does do angled cuts regularly. He created a reference block with his angles cut, when he needs to set an angle, he just tips his saw head until the blade lines up with the desired pre-cut angle. Much like the tip about cutting a slot and reversing the block to see if the blade slides in easily (90 degrees). And for those who do angled cuts - only one direction goes to 45 degrees. He was concerned about that. No integral LED light - come on! A $99 Porter Cable has a built in light, and a $900+ saw does not? And the blade clamp is still the same as the Ex - I do not understand using a clamp system that can be: 1. spread if the user tightens too much too often - damage is going to be so minimal each time that you will get used to it, until one day - oops. 2. needs a counter set screw to push against when clamping the blade, which is to be set proud in relation to the mount but there is no way to insure the upper and lower set screws are set proud to the same amount. I mentioned here some time ago that a buddy stopped by and for $20 and a beer I got a really old Delta saw. I cleaned it up and cut some on it just to see. No problems, cuts fine. But what really impressed me was the blade clamp. Two pieces of steel that press on the blade, no screw pressing on the blade at all, no possibility of making hockey sticks, or of having a left to right vertical alignment problem. Simple, mechanically sound, design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolf Posted May 13, 2017 Report Share Posted May 13, 2017 That certainly takes it out of the entry and intermediate range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgman Posted May 13, 2017 Report Share Posted May 13, 2017 4 hours ago, JimErn said: Well I know I am going to be in minority, and I am probably committing heresy or something, but the new Seyco saw does not impress me much at all. With the caveat that I am a bottom feeder ... I put some contact paper on mine with those lines replicated - I find them to be distracting and useless. That magnetic layer should be an option, lines for top feeders and plain for simple folks like me. Larger table is nice, but required for all? And it pushes you back from the blade some. Table size could have been an upgrade option. The angle gauge I have no desire for, I do not do angled cuts presently, (I might someday) but it should be an option. Having to go through the zero the gage routine and then adjust just seems tiresome. One scroller I met at a trade fair, he stopped by and talked while his wife shopped the other vendors, does do angled cuts regularly. He created a reference block with his angles cut, when he needs to set an angle, he just tips his saw head until the blade lines up with the desired pre-cut angle. Much like the tip about cutting a slot and reversing the block to see if the blade slides in easily (90 degrees). And for those who do angled cuts - only one direction goes to 45 degrees. He was concerned about that. No integral LED light - come on! A $99 Porter Cable has a built in light, and a $900+ saw does not? And the blade clamp is still the same as the Ex - I do not understand using a clamp system that can be: 1. spread if the user tightens too much too often - damage is going to be so minimal each time that you will get used to it, until one day - oops. 2. needs a counter set screw to push against when clamping the blade, which is to be set proud in relation to the mount but there is no way to insure the upper and lower set screws are set proud to the same amount. I mentioned here some time ago that a buddy stopped by and for $20 and a beer I got a really old Delta saw. I cleaned it up and cut some on it just to see. No problems, cuts fine. But what really impressed me was the blade clamp. Two pieces of steel that press on the blade, no screw pressing on the blade at all, no possibility of making hockey sticks, or of having a left to right vertical alignment problem. Simple, mechanically sound, design. I certainly do not consider a light, or lack of light as a minus. Lights or even magnifier lights ar a personal choice. Chances are most folks would replace with their own choice. The light that is an option on DeWalt Saws is lacking in many ways, and is a waste of money. they include a light on some entry level saws as. a selling feature to make the saw more attractive to the entry level buyer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappile Posted May 13, 2017 Report Share Posted May 13, 2017 I certainly agree the gauge is not necessary. They are good gauges, but I will probably very seldom tilt my table. I only did it once wit the EX. If I get into inlays, which I hope to, I would certainly think reference blocks would be the way to go.. I will use the gauge, it is easy to remove and they work great on the table say. 45' tilt, what does a person make that needs a 45' cut? As Steve good says there are only one or two bowl projects that calls for that. If I ever needed that degree, I would make a jig. The light, I agree with Dan. I have my own that is far superior to any light that comes with a scroll saw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmmcrafts Posted May 14, 2017 Report Share Posted May 14, 2017 On 3/10/2017 at 11:53 PM, hotshot said: In Canada, the Excesior 21 is priced equivilent to $743 USD. That saw is basically the EX-21 with nice new paint scheme. Hope someone starts selling those in the States with that price point. The 16" version of that saw is $520. These do not come with the stand. Are you sure about that? When i was looking at those on some web site they was $999 I believe.. and now days with so many online sales.. most web sites now automatically change the currency to the location of the person shopping.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ike Posted May 14, 2017 Report Share Posted May 14, 2017 I agree with Kevin it is way out of my league. IKE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimErn Posted May 14, 2017 Report Share Posted May 14, 2017 Dgman Whether a built in light is a necessity or not, adn whether you add a third party light to the mix, I agree that is a personal choice. Realizing that you can buy an LED light and power supply from amazon or ebay for $4 shipped from China if you are willing to wait, the cost of it whole sale in bulk is certainly below $1. Not a major increase in cost, for any saw, and in my opinion should be there so the user has an option. Instead, Seyco sells their own branded magnetic base add on light for $24.95 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgman Posted May 14, 2017 Report Share Posted May 14, 2017 As far as I know, there are no middle to upper scale saws sold in the States that come with a light. It would not be a selling point to me. I know that the Eclipse saw came with a built in light, but that saw is no longer being made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Finn Posted May 14, 2017 Report Share Posted May 14, 2017 I know that Hegners cheapest, variable speed, saw is $1400 but it will out last any other saw. What is true of any saw is: The price of saws will increase over time. I have a Hegner Polymax that I bought in 2008 and it has increased in price almost $1000 since then. I am very glad I bought it when I did. Parts for my other Hegner, a 1986 saw are still available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vector01 Posted May 17, 2017 Report Share Posted May 17, 2017 Here's one I found on Amazon.... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01G4VTYAU/_encoding=UTF8?coliid=I38AYBNKNH7E2U&colid=9BGM88RDUZNL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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