Compound cutting wood

[Old Dust]

I do a l lot of compound cutting for my bar-hopping fundraising. I suspect that here in the US the compound cutting scrollers use 2X2 studs.

(Actual size is 1.5 X 1.5") I have found that Home Depot has a 2X2 labeled "Select Pine". It is usually located near the craft wood display.

It is a tight, knot free, clear stud and great for compound cutting.

I use the scrap sides from compound cutting. I cut them as flat as I can and give them to preschool and kindergarten classes.

The kids color them and also glue them to cards or drawings they make for their parents.

The teacher can also use them as teaching guides.

I get 1 for $7 or 3 for $20 donations for the compound cuttings. Not bad since it only takes on average 15 to 20 minutes for each cutting.

If there is enough interest I will make up a tutorial on how I make compound cutting patterns.

John

Old Dust

 

 

[JOE_M]

Does compound cutting mean 3d - like the chess set and reindeer stuff? If so I'm always open to tips on how to do that better.

[jbrowning]

I'd like to learn how to do compound cutting.

 

Jim

[bandaideman]

I think I am a little corn fused. Are you saying how to make the pattern used to cut them or how to actual cut the wood in a compound cut. sorry it is late and brain not with it. 

[dgman]

I would love to see how you make compound cut patterns. I like to cut compound projects when I do demos. I am doing a scroll saw demo next Saturday at the Woodcraft store in Ventura, Ca. I spent the afternoon cutting up and preparing blanks. For this demo, I will be cutting some 3D dolphins and chickens and maybe some reindeers. I like to use hardwood though. For these, I am using Mahogany and Poplar. 

They take about five miniutes each to cut them I give them to folks that stop to watch. I will have several cut in advance to hand out.

i rely on patterns that are available commercially. It would be fun to draw my own!

[hawkeye10]

John a picture says a thousand words.   

[meflick]

I will join the chorus of "me too" - would love to see and read any and everything on compound cutting.  I have seen some of them but have been hesitant to try them just yet.  Just trying to align the pattern alone seems difficult to me.  Thanks for sharing about the wood source you use for yours.

[Scrappile]

Tutorials?  I love tutorials..

[Bill WIlson]

5 hours ago, meflick said:

I will join the chorus of "me too" - would love to see and read any and everything on compound cutting.  I have seen some of them but have been hesitant to try them just yet.  Just trying to align the pattern alone seems difficult to me.  Thanks for sharing about the wood source you use for yours.

It really isn't all that difficult Melanie, but it does require pretty precise placement to ensure that your cuts aren't misaligned.

The key is to fold the pattern, exactly on the dotted line.  Crease it to make a sharp fold.  Carefully place the crease onto the corner of the wood block, making sure the crease lines up with the corner.  If anything is off, from the fold to the placement, it's best to just start over because you probably won't get good results on the cutting otherwise.

Just as important as correctly placing the pattern is that the wood blank be exactly square.  If the corner is off of 90 degrees, even a little, it will cause the cut piece to be misshapen.

Find a simple pattern and some soft wood and give it a go.  It's fun to pull the finished piece out of the middle of the block.  No matter how many times I do it, it still makes me smile.

[Fab4]

Hi John:

If it's a pattern tutorial. I'm all in

WOOD love to know the ins and outs

Thank you

Fab4

[stevan]

I am still in the very early stages of developing scroll saw skills so on the plus side I would have nothing to unlearn.  Count me in please.

[meflick]

18 hours ago, Bill WIlson said:

It really isn't all that difficult Melanie, but it does require pretty precise placement to ensure that your cuts aren't misaligned.

The key is to fold the pattern, exactly on the dotted line.  Crease it to make a sharp fold.  Carefully place the crease onto the corner of the wood block, making sure the crease lines up with the corner.  If anything is off, from the fold to the placement, it's best to just start over because you probably won't get good results on the cutting otherwise.

Just as important as correctly placing the pattern is that the wood blank be exactly square.  If the corner is off of 90 degrees, even a little, it will cause the cut piece to be misshapen.

Find a simple pattern and some soft wood and give it a go.  It's fun to pull the finished piece out of the middle of the block.  No matter how many times I do it, it still makes me smile.

Thank you Bill.  It's that folding precisely on the line and then getting it precisely on the wood that causes me concerns!  Anyone got tips or tricks on that?  Good to know about making sure the wood blank is square too.

[campasano]

I am interested in learning how to make 3D patterns as I cut many 3D items. A tutorial is a great idea.

 

Mike

[fredfret]

I use a ruler with a thin edge to fold the pattern I aslo make sure my stock is cut at 90 deg. for the dege I'm using for the pattern. I want to know how to make patterns for compound cut projects PLEASE make a tutorial.

Fredfret

Wichita, Ks.

[Bill WIlson]

5 hours ago, meflick said:

Thank you Bill.  It's that folding precisely on the line and then getting it precisely on the wood that causes me concerns!  Anyone got tips or tricks on that?  Good to know about making sure the wood blank is square too.

No real tricks.  I do use a thin steel ruler as an edge to fold the pattern against.  Line it up with the marks and fold the pattern over the straight edge of the ruler, helps give a nice crisp corner.  I do this before I apply adhesive, then all I have to do is fit the crease to the corner of the blank and press in place.  It isn't as hard as it sounds.  It's just something that needs a little extra attention to detail.

[amazingkevin]

On 5/7/2017 at 2:19 PM, Old Dust said:

I do a l lot of compound cutting for my bar-hopping fundraising. I suspect that here in the US the compound cutting scrollers use 2X2 studs.

(Actual size is 1.5 X 1.5") I have found that Home Depot has a 2X2 labeled "Select Pine". It is usually located near the craft wood display.

It is a tight, knot free, clear stud and great for compound cutting.

I use the scrap sides from compound cutting. I cut them as flat as I can and give them to preschool and kindergarten classes.

The kids color them and also glue them to cards or drawings they make for their parents.

The teacher can also use them as teaching guides.

I get 1 for $7 or 3 for $20 donations for the compound cuttings. Not bad since it only takes on average 15 to 20 minutes for each cutting.

If there is enough interest I will make up a tutorial on how I make compound cutting patterns.

John

Old Dust

 

 

Looks like the whole gang is interested in your info.,me too!

[barb.j.enders]

On 2017-05-07 at 8:06 PM, dgman said:

I would love to see how you make compound cut patterns. I like to cut compound projects when I do demos. I am doing a scroll saw demo next Saturday at the Woodcraft store in Ventura, Ca. I spent the afternoon cutting up and preparing blanks. For this demo, I will be cutting some 3D dolphins and chickens and maybe some reindeers. I like to use hardwood though. For these, I am using Mahogany and Poplar. 

They take about five miniutes each to cut them I give them to folks that stop to watch. I will have several cut in advance to hand out.

i rely on patterns that are available commercially. It would be fun to draw my own!

So what do I do wrong, it took me maybe 20 minutes to cut the reindeer:(

[dgman]

19 minutes ago, barb.j.enders said:

So what do I do wrong, it took me maybe 20 minutes to cut the reindeer:(

The most important factor is the right blade. Do not use a reverse tooth blade as it will not clear the saw dust out efficiently. I use a FD Polar # 5 or # 7 for the 3D reindeer. The Polar blades have a slight set to the teeth. This clears out the saw dust faster which makes the cutting go faster. I also use Mhogany for the blank. Mhogany cuts like butter with a sharp blade. I can usually cut three or four with one blade.

[barb.j.enders]

Thanks for the info.

[CharleyL]

This mostly describes how to make compound cut reindeer, but the technique applies to all compound (3D) cutting on a scroll saw. You are going to have to have a good pin less blade saw that has been aligned well to be successful. The blade must be absolutely straight (90 deg) to the saw table in both the side to side and front to back directions. The DeWalt 788 or better model saw of similar design will work well for this, but even the DeWalt has problems since it does not have an adjustment for getting the front to back blade angle perfectly to 90 degrees. You will need to elongate the mounting holes that hold the blade mechanism in either the upper or lower yellow arms in order to move the blade to perfectly straight. It won't take much, about an additional screw diameter, but it makes a big difference when compound cutting. Tune your saw well before trying this.  

 

I've been making compound cut reindeer for 8 years now, and give them away to any woman, sales person, cashier, Waitress, Nurse, etc. who helps me in some way during the Christmas Season. Last year I made 428 and gave them all away. Each year the quantity made increases. At the end of their transaction with me I hold out my hand, palm down, toward them with a reindeer in my palm, and I wish them a Very Merry Christmas. When they reach out toward me I drop a reindeer in their hand. I make 4 sizes. The largest is about 3 1/2" high and the size that I make the most of. I can do one in about 6 minutes now. The middle sizes are either given away, as is, or I glue a pin to one side of them. The smallest, at about 1" high become ear rings. I drill a tiny hole just under their antlers and insert a gold or silver ring that is large enough to clear the antlers. On this ring I attach the ear ring hook for pierced ears. I make a left and a right version so the reindeer face the wearer. These take me about 9 minutes each to make, so they are for special women. A pair is placed in a 3 X 2 box with padding and then given to  those special women. 

I  don't sell these. You have to do something for me to get them, but I get many thanks, sometimes a hug, and occasionally a kiss on the cheek. The girls at Lowes now call me Reindeer Charley, and they all have at least one. You can also find tiny hersds of them sitting high on a shelf in many of the restaurants that I frequent. 

The pattern that I use is a slightly modified version of the one that's available through Mathias Wandell's www.woofgears.ca website http://woodgears.ca/reindeer/plans.html  I just cleaned it up a little (smoothed the lines), changed the size to suit my needs of using it on my scroll saw, and put as many copies of it on an 8 1/2 X 11 sheet of paper as I could, to save paper. I print them on an old HP laser printer. because they hold up better than inkjet. When cutting them out, cut the face view first and the side view pattern out together as one with the face view on the left. Don't cut the two views apart. The line between the views is the fold line. Keeping the two views attached to each other keeps them in alignment. The only scissors cut hat needs to be accurate is the one on the bottom end of their hoofs.

With the pattern sized and cut out of the printed paper, cut blocks of wood just slightly taller than the pattern and wide enough for the side view of the pattern. I use 3/4 pine for the largest reindeer, hard pine, if I can get it in adequate quantities for the three largest sizes. A  carpenter friend brings me scraps of construction SPF wood shorts, anything worth picking up (a foot of more long),.that I cut to size when available. When I don't have enough of these pieces, I buy white pine in sizes from 1 X 2 to 1 X 10  #2 grade at Lowes and sometimes at Home Depot..I hand select the boards to be almost knot free for large areas and then I cut the clean straight grain pieces from them and feed the fire with all of the knots and crazy grain.You could buy select grade wood, but if you are careful when selecting, you can get #2 grade and waste 30% of it  because of the knots and wild grain and still save money. I try to pick the wood that appears almost quarter sawn (grain running almost straight across the 3/4 width) and has almost invisible  grain lines.. Strong and dark grain lines make cutting more difficult and the darker brown lines make the reindeer look almost like a hybrid between a reindeer and a zebra after cutting them out. I use hard maple for the smallest ear ring reindeer because. they need the additional strength to survive even the cutting process. I cut these tiny reindeer from 3/4 X 3/4 hard maple. Trying to cut them from softer wood usually ends up having them fall apart as they are cut. Even with hard maple they are very delicate.

I fold each pattern on the vertical line between the two views. I just align this fold line top and bottom to the corner of a block of a block of wood and run my finger down the  pattern fold line to crease it along the line Then I remove the pattern and bend it further to about 90 degrees. I'll usually cut and fold all of the patterns that were cut from one sheet of paper before continuing.  I use common stationery store rubber cement, and go through several of the large jars of it every year.  I apply it with the bottle brush to the one wide side as well as the narrow side on the left of the block of wood, You can move the pattern around to get the fold line on the corner of the wood and the reindeer's feet at the bottom edge of the block of wood. Rubber cement is relatively cheap and works well for compound cutting because you never have to remove it after you have cut the pattern. The finished reindeer, or other compound cut project, comes from the center of the block of wood and the paper pattern gets discarded with the scrap wood.  Any excess wood above or to the right of the reindeer pattern just becomes waste. I like to have about 1/4" of wood above the reindeer pattern so I can start the cut before cutting into the pattern. A little extra wood on the right side of the pattern keeps the blade from breaking out of the block as you cut the tail of the reindeer. 

You will need a good clamp to keep all of the cuttings together while cutting the reindeer from the pattern. The block of wood must be kept together until all of the sawing is complete. You will be cutting the reindeer  two times, once for the face view and once for the side view. If any of the pieces are removed before or during the cuts, the blade will cut faster through these areas and it will be harder to stay on the pattern lines .  

Here is how I make the clamps -

You will need to purchase two pieces of 10-32 all threaded rod about 8" long, four 10-32 hex nuts, four washers to fit the #10 all thread rods, and two 10-32 wing nuts. Look for straight rods by rolling them on a flat surface before buying them. They need to be very straight. If they are curved, it will be very noticeable when you roll them on a flat surface. I buy stainless rods because they are stronger. The regular steel 10-32 all thread will gradually stretch and curve in repeated use and become unuseable. The nuts and washers can be mild steel. If you have a Lowes nearby, all of this hardware especially the all thread rods, can be found in the "specialty hardware" gray metal drawers  that are in the nuts, bolts, and screws aisle. 

I use two pieces of 3/4 birch cabinet plywood because of it's strength, but solid hardwood 3.4 X 1" X the length needed will work.. I cut two identical piecesof 3/4" birch cabinet plywood about 1" wide and about 2" longer than the pattern that I will be cutting. The length can be longer, but not excessively long. I clamp both pieces together, side by side,with their veneer faces against each other, aligning both the edges and ends. You could use double sided tape instead of the clamp to hold them together and in alignment , but both pieces will need to be perfectly aligned with each othe through this next step. I then mark  for one drilled hole at each end through the two pieces   1/2" from each side and 1/2" from each end. The drill will need to be a size slightly larger in diameter than the threaded rod and cut through both pieces of wood with the veneer side up on a drill press. The holes need to be straight and completely through both of the pieces of wood..

Then separate the two pieces of wood and remove the double sided tape, if you used it. Now install a hex nut on each piece of all thread and run it on until each nut is about 1 1/4 inch from the end of the rod. Now install a washer on the short end of each rod, then insert this end of each rod through one of the holes in one of the piecees of wood, then install another washer and follow with another hex nut on each short rod end of the rod, Now move the nuts until they are on both sides of the wood and about three threads from the ends of the threaded rods. Tighten the nuts against the wood with wrenches. You don't want these to loosen in use.

Now place the second piece of wood on the long end of these threaded rods. Install a washer and then a wing nut on each rod. Your clamp is now complete. It should resemble a square with the two pieces of wood making up opposite sides and the two threaded rods making up the other two opposite sides.

You are now ready to begin cutting out a reindeer.

Place a block of wood into the center of this clamp, with the clamp lying flat on your scroll saw table. With the block of wood flat against the table and both boards of the clamp also sitting flat on the table, move the two pieces of wood together against the block of wood. I always begin cutting with the face view facing up and the block of wood roughly centered in the clamp. Then alternately tighten both wing nuts to keep the pressure of the clamp roughly even on both ends of the block of wood  Tighten them about as tight as you can using only your fingers.  The goal here is to keep the block of wood from moving, including the pieces that are being cut from it.

After each antler to hoof cut, or hoof to antler cut (one end of the block of wood to the other) you are going to have to re-tighten these wing nuts about 1 turn each because the blade will have removed it's thickness from the wood, making the block slightly narrower and the clamp will be loose. None of the pieces of the reindeer block can move with respect to each other or the reindeer will not turn out right.  

I always start cutting at the top of the right antler and then work my way down to the hoof on the right side of the reindeer and continue clockwise around the face view pattern lines of the face view of the reindeer. I cut all the way down and out of the block of wood at his right hoof.Then I tighten the wing nuts of the clamp. I then cut back into the block on the left side ofhis right hoof and up between his legs, then back down the right side of his left front leg and back out of the block. At this point, a tiny piece of blue masking tape, placed to hold the loose piece of wood between his legs, but not covering the pattern  line on the left side of his left leg will keep the piece in place. Then I cut up the left side of his left hoof and all the way up to the tip of his left antler and then out of the top end of the block of wood. Again, tighten the thumb screw wing nuts. Then cut down into the space between his antlers, around and back out the top of the block of wood at the left side of his right antler. 

His face view should now be completely cut out, but not his side view. Hold the pieces tightly together with your fingers as you loosen the wing nuts of the clamp, Loosen the clamp way apart and, while still holding the pieces of the blockof wood  tightly together, rotate the block and lay it flat against the saw table with the side view of the reindeer now facing up, and tighten the wing nuts to clamp the clamp against the block of wood again. The block of wood cut pieces must be held tightly together and perfectly aligned with each other with the clamp. They must also be flush with the bottom of the clamp and the saw table. Again I cut clockwise beginning at the highest right antler and continuing clockwise around the reindeer, tightening the clamp after you make the antler to hoof rut and again after you make a hoof to antler cut. 

If you have cut all the pattern lines,made  smooth, non-stopping cuts, stayed on or just outside the pattern lines by no more than one blade width anywhere, you should have a perfect little reindeer. You can now loosen the wing nuts of the clamp and remove the block of wood. What you now have is a reindeer that's hidden inside of a rectangular egg like shell. Carefully slide and lift the pieces of outer shell off, and in the middle of the block of wood you will have a tiny reindeer. Be careful around his legs and antlers because they are very fragile. Don't force any pieces, especially those between his legs and antlers. To help with these pieces I made a tool from about 5" of 1/8" dowel, sharpening both ends with a pencil sharpener to about a small blunt point. I use this tool  to gently push the pieces out from between his legs and antlers.

A little careful de-fuzzing of his legs, and two small black magic marker dots added for his eyes (Just below the front edge of the front antler on each side)  and a big red magic marker dot on his nose (if his name is Rudolph). Then a dip in your clear finish of choice, let him dry, and you have a completed reindeer.

You will probably make several reindeer before you get a good one. Don't give up. They get easier after you get some experience. I can now cut out one of the larger 3 1/2" reindeer in about 6 minutes, but your first ones will take you much longer.  Don't even try to race the clock when you are first starting. Concern yourself with making smooth lines that are on or very close to the pattern lines, and on the waste side. If you can make smooth lines and can stay within about one blade width of the outside of the line you will have a pretty good looking reindeer.  Not all reindeer will look exactly alike. It will depend on how well you follow or stay on the pattern lines. No two people look the same either, except for identical twins, and if they turn out with all their antlers and four legs and they stand up on their own, consider them to be a success.

All other compound (3D) patterns are cut in much this same way. Each has some unique tricks that you will need to learn as you make a few pieces of firewood, but hang in there and don't get discouraged. I started compound cutting about 10 years ago and I rarely do any flat pattern cutting any more. I like the challenge of compound cutting and making smaller and smaller things on my scroll saw.

Be prepared for the look of amazement  that most people get on their faces the first time that they see your work. Many people have seen flat scroll saw work, but very few have ever seen compound cut scroll saw pieces. Many will think you carved them or laser cut them.. 

When I first started making compound cut reindeer I would power carve them after cutting them out to make them rounder and more realistic. I would even try to apply thinned stains with tiny paint brushes to make them look more realistic. No one seemed to appreciate all this extra work and they seemed even happier when I just leave them the natural whits wood, so I stopped the time consuming power carving and I now just coat them with a 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 mixture of BLO, paint thinner and poly, dipped with a fine solid wire wrapped  loosely around their neck. Then hang them by the wire to dry. A few minutes after dipping I touch their hoofs with a paper towel to remove any excess drip finish. I have a long wire across the ceiling that I hang them from. Then I leave them drying until the next day. I can put finish on 30-40 at a time. The long wire stretched across my shop just below the ceiling  holds them  just above my head height, so they are out of my way, but I can still easily reach them.. 

I will try to help anyone with questions about making these reindeer. This is a good time for experimenting with compound cutting. This same technique is used for making any of the compound cut projects, whether they be reindeer, chess pieces, tulips, elephants, mailboxes, etc.,  and because Santa's Workshop reindeer manufacturing doesn't need to begin begin seriously seriously for several more months.. 

The reindeer are an easy pattern to start with. Thanks to Matthias Wandel for the source pattern. Once you can make reindeer well, there are several soft cover books full of patterns by Diana Thompson that are excellent. Her mailbox on stand with vines is quite a challenge, so wait until you have the concept of compound (3D) cutting well figured out before trying it. She has one book on Christmas Ornaments that is great too. In her book "3D Patterns for the Scroll Saw" you will find many  patterns that seem to be Dr Zeus character inspired and they are a lot of fun to cut out. The kids immediately love these when they see them.

 I also have one book by Frank Pozgai that I'm not at all impressed with and I will not recommend. Some of his patterns appear to have never been tested before he published them, as they won't cut out correctly.

The easiest patterns to cut are those in which the image is identical in both views, like most of the chess pieces Diana's Tulip from the book above is one of these. Steve Goode has some good chess piece patterns on his website too.

Please ask questions if you try compound (3D) cutting and you have problems. I will do my best to help you.

Charley

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 13, 2017 by CharleyL
Cleaned up spelling and poor wording of some parts and added a bit to better explain things

[meflick]

Thanks for sharing your reindeer information Charley.  I don't presently have time to sit down and read through it all as I'm about to head out the door for an appointment, but will be back to peruse in detail later and take copious notes. 

[meflick]

Bumping this back up first to say thanks to Bill, Dan, Fred and Charley for sharing the info. on the blades to use, how to cut and align the pattern to the wood and how to cut them out. (Someone else had asked on a different thread about this thread and Charley pointed back to this one that I had forgotten about.) Second, to see if John @Old Dust had developed his tutorial on how to create a 3d Pattern its self (which is what I think he was offering to do.)

[Scrappile]

I think Charley's long response should be in the Articles section so it doesn't get lost.  I save it to my computer so I will have it when I do more 3D cutting.

[OCtoolguy]

Thanks Charley for the excellent verbal tutorial. I will also save it to my computer so that I can read it over and over until it imprints in my hard old noggin. I want to try this idea too. I used to go to all the woodworking shows each year and there was always a guy there demo'ing the Hegner saws and he would talk to you while cutting those little reindeer and do it almost without looking at them. I guess it's muscle memory or something but I was impressed. So, now I will give it a try . Thanks again for all your efforts to put that article together. Sometime, you might try adding a couple pics to it just to give the readers a visual to make it a bit easier to read. Either way though, it's fantastic.

Ray

 

[Dan]

I get the compound cut thing but I want to see pictures of the scraps after they are cut flat.