Seyco Review

[Doug]

This is lengthy so stop now if you are not interested.  When I said I had ordered the Seyco some asked that I give a review.  As you read of some of my issues do not jump to the conclusion I had no idea what I was doing - I grew up on a farm and have been assembling things since I was eight years old and that was a long time ago.  Also, this applies only to the machine which was shipped to me and, hopefully, will not apply to all machines which are shipped.  I assembled mine with the bench top legs rather than as a stand and then mounted it on the 3/4 plywood top I have on an EX stand.  I will be interested in viewing whatever video Steve Good does for assembly of his to see if he encountered any of the problems I had.  I will also be interested in the assembly and operation experience of others who are getting the Seyco so hopefully they will weigh in with their comments.
 
The manual says there are upper and lower blade guards but my unit had only an upper blade guard and none of the manual pictures show a lower blade guard.  This is not a problem for me as I have viewed blade guards on scroll saws as a nuisance rather than a safety factor and have always removed them.
 
The manual says the speed is 400 - 1600 strokes per minute but the motor says 400 - 1550 not a big difference but they both should say the same thing.
 
When you look for the mechanic’s square, it is in an unmarked box with two positive blade angle stops which are provided but not listed as enclosed. The manual does not say what tools you will need so I suggest you have a 12mm and 11mm open end and or box end wrench.  A hex key is provided but it does not fit the hex heads for the table top attachment and you will want a 5/32 hex key.  Assembly bolts for the stand assembly all worked fine but were of two different lengths, someone reached in the wrong bin or had thrown some extras of a different length in the wrong bin.
 
The swing tilt head which is the actual saw unit was a problem when assembling it to the frame.  Where shoulder bolts were used for the front and back swivel the distance from front to back was probably 1/4 to 3/8 inches too far and too much pressure had to be used to mount the saw to the swivel points in the frame.  I am hoping that in operation there is no thread failure due to this extra stress.  Also, the bolt welded on the saw which slid into the arc for adjusting the swivel/angle was slightly off and would be totally unacceptable if I ever wanted to adjust the swivel/angle as it has to really be forced to make it swivel.  If I did work with adjusting swivel/angles, I would either need to return the saw or grind 1/16 to 1/8 of metal off of the swivel arc for freedom of adjusting.  In this respect the EX had a much better method for angle adjustment.  Every place where I had a problem with tolerances had a weld rather than being stamped and I am guessing this was the problem.  If each weld were just slightly different, assembly of the saw to the frame would have been a breeze.  Although they probably were robotic welds, they really looked more like manual welds.  The preceding made assembly of my unit extremely frustrating.  I did get a hammer but ended up not using it.  Although not a problem, this same lack of tolerances appeared in the rather long tilt locking knob and when screwing it onto the bolt there was an up/down type of movement indicating the thread insert was not placed straight in the mold when it was formed.  Tolerances were also slightly off on the brackets the table top was mounted to and the bolts took a little forcing which should not have been necessary.  I do suggest you get six larger flat washers for when you mount the table top to the frame.
 
I am sure there must be a reason for it but it is incomprehensible to me.  What you do not see on the Seyco web site is that if you take the magnetic table cover off, the steel table top has a fairly large rectangular hole through the table which is a few inches in back of the blade slot and directly above the under table mechanism for changing the angle.  For better or worse, this means you are almost wedded to the magnetic table top (which I am not sure I will like) or you are going to be getting a lot of saw dust going down that slot as you rotate your work or the blower (which is designed to blow from the front to rear of your work) removes the saw dust from your scroll line.  It is not likely it was meant as a sawdust dump since the magnetic table cover conceals it so I am at a loss on the reason for it.  I will be interested in whether anyone ever finds the graphics on the magnetic table top helpful as I think I am more likely to find them a distraction.  If there was not the rectangular hole in the steel table top, the magnetic table top could also have been left out and offered as an option.
 
I do not do any angle cuts and have no use for a digital angle gauge and I prefer the hand switch for on/off so will not use the foot switch.  Nothing indicated whether the foot switch is on/off or a dead man’s switch.  Both of those items could have been left out or been offered as optional features.  Most folks probably already have the Wixey Digital Angle Gauge and rather than the nesting place in front of the speed control for the Wixey I would have rather kept the on/off switch closer to the front where it is somewhat more convenient.  Most scrollers who like the foot switch probably have one of those also.  I know I have a foot switch because I had to try it to find I did not like it for the way I work.  Maybe I will find something else to put in the Wixey nesting spot.  It is to small for a can of beer but a shot glass might work.  The money spent on those two items and even the mechanics square would have been better spent improving the angle/tilt mechanism or for offering a slightly lower price (maybe even using a table top without a rectangular hole in it and making the magnetic table top optional).
 
All of the manual photos show the same clamping assembly as the EX and which is also similar to the DW and the thumb screws come with the swivel ends like the EX and DW.  The set screws in manual photos all appear the same as the EX and DW but on the unit I received the set screws were longer and had a nut on the outside - I am assuming this is a method for locking the set screw rather than using Loctite.
 
All of the mechanisms for (i) adjusting blade as vertical by setting table top (sideways blade adjustment) and adjusting motor (back to front blade adjustment), (ii) adjusting the back knob for adjusting upper arm horizontal to table top, and (iii) lifting the top arm to a stationary up position are the same as on the EX.  The manual does not tell you that the motor adjustment can be used to adjust the back to front for a vertical blade - that knowledge comes from the EX manual.

After assembly I did start the saw and ran it from slowest to fastest and it is quiet and does seem vibration free so after the frustration of assembly I am anxious to drive it and expect I will really like it.  I still need to complete my under table dust collection hookups so have not tested it with actual scrolling but should get to that over this next weekend.  Although Seyco seems proud that the dust blower is designed to blow the dust to the back and away from you, I have a feeling I am not going to like it positioned in front of or near the front of the blade and likely will change the blower tube end and maybe remove a few links.

Edited May 26, 2017 by Doug

[Scrappile]

Thanks for the review.  Steve Good sang such high praises of the saw, that I ordered one.  I am really anxious to see how he handles the assembly issues....   I really think you should send this review to Seyco.  They need to know the good and the bad.  Your review does not discourage me, I appreciate you pointing out the short comings, I will not be shocked when mine arrives.  I also do not plan on using their stand, I have a cabinet that my Excalibur was mounted on that I really like and my plan is to use it with this saw.  I prefer custom made cabinets for my saws because a stand is wasted space.  No efficient storage underneath and with my small shop all space counts.  Unfortunately my saw is due to arrive while I am out of town.  It will sit at my brothers house for a week before I can get it.  I hope he doesn't get it in his head to try to assemble it for me.  He knows nothing about scroll saws.  Well really he knows nothing..... just kidding, I love my brother he is a good man.  

[JOE_M]

Thanks for the review. I'm so glad I hesitated. I am not as forgiving as some when it comes to such stuff. If anything, the higher the price of the tool the more anal retentive I get in my expectations and at $929 I'd be completely unforgiving of at least half the things you mention.

[WayneMahler]

Thanks for the review. I was honestly expecting some much more positive. I greatly appreciate the honest and candid approach though. Maybe when Paul gets his saw he can confirm or have a better experience. Thinking that maybe you received one that slipped past quality control. For the money they are asking I would expect an easier assembly and fit.

[kmmcrafts]

As much as I've read about Seyco and how they always pre-set-up the Excalibur saws for each and every customer.. or at least that is how i always read / understood it.. I am really thrown off coarse that they are sending these saws out un-assembled.. or at least not partly assembled and tested.. 

I really had wondered how this was all going to pan out with these saws.. considering ( in my opinion ) they ( Seyco ) really rushed to get these saw out there and in the market.. I am in no way trying to talk bad or degrade the saw or the Seyco company.. But I sort of felt from the beginning when i heard about the new saw.. they seemed to be rushing to get the saw on the market before the new named EX-s become available to the USA...

With the reputation that Seyco has I am sure they will get the new saw's bugs and flaws taken care of.. and be sure all their customers are satisfied with their purchase. Hopefully this is just an isolated case.. and the others will go together as smooth as silk.

Kevin

[Scrappile]

Good point Kevin.  My Ex was assembled  when I received it, except for the stand, of course.  That is really what I was expecting this time around also.   If Seyco has done a bad here, it will really hurt their future sales.  Takes a lot to build a good reputation, and not much to lose a good one.

[Doug]

A couple of followup comments.  Note that my review was limited to the assembly process for only the machine I received and mounted on the stand as a bench top and a few comments about some features.  I did not criticize the actual operation and I hope and expect that in actual operation (since I do not ever tilt the saw) I will find the saw I have to be an excellent machine.  The actual saw is fully assembled but then has to be attached to the stand which holds the body of the saw in place.  This attachment is basically at the front and back swivel joints which permit the saw body to swivel.  It was at these points where the tolerances did not permit a secure but easy mounting process and then also at the point where the table was fastened to stand.  The manual states "Your scroll saw has been carefully tested and inspected . . ." and also "All components of each Seyco Scroll Saw are carefully inspected during all stages of production and each unit is thoroughly inspected upon completion of assembly."  I think these comments must be considered as applying only to the saw unit and that any factory testing of the saw unit occurs in a manner which does not require attaching the saw unit to a specific stand; although I do have some curiosity about how the words "tested" and "inspected" are used and intended.  Based on Seyco's reputation I fully expect and hope that future reviews of the assembly process will be more positive than mine and that all reviews of the saw in operation will be positive.  I do look forward to Paul's review and Steve Good's review of both assembly and operation.  I do not want to be unfair to Seyco but did feel I owed it to my friends in the scrolling community to post my experience.

Edited May 25, 2017 by Doug

[Bill WIlson]

Thanks for the review.  It was thorough and detailed, regarding the assembly/set up process.  I'll be looking forward to a similar detailed review of the operation of the saw.  Given Seyco's history of good customer service, I suspect that these kinds of issues will quickly work themselves out of future production runs.  At least that is my sincere hope.  Good luck with the saw!

[orangeman]

Really great review.

My Dad always said: Never buy a new car the first year a new car model comes out. Sounds like assembly issues need to be ironed out.

I'll wait until Woodcraft stocks the saw and then buy their floor model already assembled.

 

[Scrappile]

Note the Steve Good assembly video is out.  I have the link in another post, or go to Steve's site and watch.  I think it will settle things down a little.

[Scrappile]

Another note. I think the new Seyco is not assembled like the Excalibur was when a person received it, is the Ex sat on top of the supplied stand.  On the Seyco saw the stand is part of the chassis of the saw, which make it necessary to assemble when it arrives. 

[Scrolling Steve]

Thanks for all the info guys !

[Doug]

Another update - Ray read my post and I just had a satisfying call with him which I hope I relate properly.  They are doing different legs for the bench top mount and if you have already ordered and intend to use the bench top mount for the frame (that is you Paul-Ray said he was going to try to reach out to you) you should be in touch with Ray so that he may process your order with that in mind.  Ray says using the short adjustable legs for the full frame which the manual seems to indicate should be done were found not to have the correct angle and they are furnishing completely different legs for the bench top mount - I hope and fully expect after our telephone call that when Ray sends those to me it will solve the tolerance problems which I had.  Kudos to Ray for reaching out to me since I had not reached out to him.

If anyone does plan to order and use with bench top frame call your order in and be sure to tell Ray your want the bench top frame legs because unless the website gets updated you will not see that option when you order.

Edited May 26, 2017 by Doug

[Bill WIlson]

That's good to hear and kudos to Ray for stepping up to make it right.

[trackman]

You can't beat that kind of service!  Hard to get some companies to do anything to help you.  

[Doug]

I have now scrolled for several hours with the Seyco.  It has been an enjoyable experience.  I think the Seyco ran smoothly at all speeds and was at least as good as my EX when the my EX was new so, other than the assembly issues previously discussed and which Ray is remedying, I am pleased with my purchase.  I expect the changes Ray is making for the tabletop legs for bench top assembly purposes will also make the swivel feature work smoothly like in Steve Good’s assembly demo for assembly as a stand.  I previously commented on some design things I would have done differently but others may like the design features and they do not take away from the fact that the saw runs well.

I did do three things as I was sawing which made an improvement for me and the method I work.  I took the blower hose and shortened it significantly and took off the 90 degree end and put on a straight end.  The magnetic table top seemed to hold my wood more than I would like so I decided to try some Johnson Paste Wax like I use on the tables of all of my saws both for protection and ease of wood movement across the saw table.  The wax worked just like on my other saws and made the wood move across the magnetic table top much easier and smoother so that is something I will keep doing.  This may be true only for spiral blades, which is all I use, but I did get some kinking in the blade ends.  Both the EX and Seyco manuals say the set screw should protrude slightly into the clamp area and the Seyco came with that setting on the set screw.  I had changed my EX so the set screw was flush with the clamp face and I did the same for the Seyco, upper and lower - problem solved; again, possibly a problem only with spiral blades.  I had mentioned befoe that the clamp came with a longer set screw and then had a nut on the outside of the clamp which is presumably to lock the set screw.  Since I was changing the setting on the set screw I did go ahead and use blue Loctite as well as the nut to lessen the change of set screw movement or creep.

[amazingkevin]

On 5/24/2017 at 7:22 PM, Doug said:

This is lengthy so stop now if you are not interested.  When I said I had ordered the Seyco some asked that I give a review.  As you read of some of my issues do not jump to the conclusion I had no idea what I was doing - I grew up on a farm and have been assembling things since I was eight years old and that was a long time ago.  Also, this applies only to the machine which was shipped to me and, hopefully, will not apply to all machines which are shipped.  I assembled mine with the bench top legs rather than as a stand and then mounted it on the 3/4 plywood top I have on an EX stand.  I will be interested in viewing whatever video Steve Good does for assembly of his to see if he encountered any of the problems I had.  I will also be interested in the assembly and operation experience of others who are getting the Seyco so hopefully they will weigh in with their comments.
 
The manual says there are upper and lower blade guards but my unit had only an upper blade guard and none of the manual pictures show a lower blade guard.  This is not a problem for me as I have viewed blade guards on scroll saws as a nuisance rather than a safety factor and have always removed them.
 
The manual says the speed is 400 - 1600 strokes per minute but the motor says 400 - 1550 not a big difference but they both should say the same thing.
 
When you look for the mechanic’s square, it is in an unmarked box with two positive blade angle stops which are provided but not listed as enclosed. The manual does not say what tools you will need so I suggest you have a 12mm and 11mm open end and or box end wrench.  A hex key is provided but it does not fit the hex heads for the table top attachment and you will want a 5/32 hex key.  Assembly bolts for the stand assembly all worked fine but were of two different lengths, someone reached in the wrong bin or had thrown some extras of a different length in the wrong bin.
 
The swing tilt head which is the actual saw unit was a problem when assembling it to the frame.  Where shoulder bolts were used for the front and back swivel the distance from front to back was probably 1/4 to 3/8 inches too far and too much pressure had to be used to mount the saw to the swivel points in the frame.  I am hoping that in operation there is no thread failure due to this extra stress.  Also, the bolt welded on the saw which slid into the arc for adjusting the swivel/angle was slightly off and would be totally unacceptable if I ever wanted to adjust the swivel/angle as it has to really be forced to make it swivel.  If I did work with adjusting swivel/angles, I would either need to return the saw or grind 1/16 to 1/8 of metal off of the swivel arc for freedom of adjusting.  In this respect the EX had a much better method for angle adjustment.  Every place where I had a problem with tolerances had a weld rather than being stamped and I am guessing this was the problem.  If each weld were just slightly different, assembly of the saw to the frame would have been a breeze.  Although they probably were robotic welds, they really looked more like manual welds.  The preceding made assembly of my unit extremely frustrating.  I did get a hammer but ended up not using it.  Although not a problem, this same lack of tolerances appeared in the rather long tilt locking knob and when screwing it onto the bolt there was an up/down type of movement indicating the thread insert was not placed straight in the mold when it was formed.  Tolerances were also slightly off on the brackets the table top was mounted to and the bolts took a little forcing which should not have been necessary.  I do suggest you get six larger flat washers for when you mount the table top to the frame.
 
I am sure there must be a reason for it but it is incomprehensible to me.  What you do not see on the Seyco web site is that if you take the magnetic table cover off, the steel table top has a fairly large rectangular hole through the table which is a few inches in back of the blade slot and directly above the under table mechanism for changing the angle.  For better or worse, this means you are almost wedded to the magnetic table top (which I am not sure I will like) or you are going to be getting a lot of saw dust going down that slot as you rotate your work or the blower (which is designed to blow from the front to rear of your work) removes the saw dust from your scroll line.  It is not likely it was meant as a sawdust dump since the magnetic table cover conceals it so I am at a loss on the reason for it.  I will be interested in whether anyone ever finds the graphics on the magnetic table top helpful as I think I am more likely to find them a distraction.  If there was not the rectangular hole in the steel table top, the magnetic table top could also have been left out and offered as an option.
 
I do not do any angle cuts and have no use for a digital angle gauge and I prefer the hand switch for on/off so will not use the foot switch.  Nothing indicated whether the foot switch is on/off or a dead man’s switch.  Both of those items could have been left out or been offered as optional features.  Most folks probably already have the Wixey Digital Angle Gauge and rather than the nesting place in front of the speed control for the Wixey I would have rather kept the on/off switch closer to the front where it is somewhat more convenient.  Most scrollers who like the foot switch probably have one of those also.  I know I have a foot switch because I had to try it to find I did not like it for the way I work.  Maybe I will find something else to put in the Wixey nesting spot.  It is to small for a can of beer but a shot glass might work.  The money spent on those two items and even the mechanics square would have been better spent improving the angle/tilt mechanism or for offering a slightly lower price (maybe even using a table top without a rectangular hole in it and making the magnetic table top optional).
 
All of the manual photos show the same clamping assembly as the EX and which is also similar to the DW and the thumb screws come with the swivel ends like the EX and DW.  The set screws in manual photos all appear the same as the EX and DW but on the unit I received the set screws were longer and had a nut on the outside - I am assuming this is a method for locking the set screw rather than using Loctite.
 
All of the mechanisms for (i) adjusting blade as vertical by setting table top (sideways blade adjustment) and adjusting motor (back to front blade adjustment), (ii) adjusting the back knob for adjusting upper arm horizontal to table top, and (iii) lifting the top arm to a stationary up position are the same as on the EX.  The manual does not tell you that the motor adjustment can be used to adjust the back to front for a vertical blade - that knowledge comes from the EX manual.

After assembly I did start the saw and ran it from slowest to fastest and it is quiet and does seem vibration free so after the frustration of assembly I am anxious to drive it and expect I will really like it.  I still need to complete my under table dust collection hookups so have not tested it with actual scrolling but should get to that over this next weekend.  Although Seyco seems proud that the dust blower is designed to blow the dust to the back and away from you, I have a feeling I am not going to like it positioned in front of or near the front of the blade and likely will change the blower tube end and maybe remove a few links.

Always something!