HAWK BM20 help

[kmmcrafts]

On 5/30/2017 at 10:47 PM, DME72 said:

after only using it for a  couple of  hours  i dont really know that i want to get used to it! other than the usa made motor and electronics and being heavy built i dont think it is all it is cracked up to be. the on/off switch is not in a real handy spot,the blade holders are crap, and the more i use it the less i want to use it. this is supposed to be a enjoyable hobby, not a headache with the saw every time you have to make an inside cut! i also got the manual with it when i bought the saw. i have done what the manual says and i still dont like the clamp system. i am glad i bought this used because i would be upset if i had paid anywhere near the $1200 price tag they want for it new.

Wish I was closer.. I'd come take it off your hands if you really don't want to use it.. I bought my first used Hawk 220VS  (1993)  model last Oct. played around a little with it but it had some issues.. few worn parts.. but main issue was user error.. I put it aside until after the big holiday sales rush ( I sell Christmas ornaments and a lot of them.. ) After taking the needed time to actually learn the saw I have grown to love it.. while I still do have times where I will go to the old Dewalt if I am in a rush on a project.. because like you.. after many years of scrolling on the DeWalt.. I am still more comfy on it.. given the fact that I have only had my newest Hawk 226 Ultra (1998 ) for 2 weeks..

I understand what you mean when you say it seems like they could put the switch in a better location.. that said though.. with the design of the saw.. where do you suppose they could put it? I think they did better by just offering up a free foot switch with every saw.. most people that go buy a DeWalt most likely go out and buy a foot switch anyway.. so why bother redesigning the saw for a more convenient power switch.. just seem logical to me to throw in a foot switch since it is actually a safer option anyway since you have to have your foot on the switch to run it.. If you've ever worked in a factory you will notice that most machines have a foot switch.. for the production machines.. why change that up on a Hawk.. after all it was built for commercial / production use.. made to last.. with sealed bearings open design so when / if a part wares out you can see what is going on and quickly repair it and be back up and running in no time..

If you've ever taken a DeWalt apart for replacing bearings.. you will really see how cheaply made they really are.. with stamped steel arms that I am surprised they don't bend when tension is applied to the blade, LOL.. they use open needle bearings so the dust / dirt can get in and do a number on the bearings and sleeves... I know because I have rebuilt my DeWalt 2 times and it needs it again.. BTW.. Not bashing the DeWalt.. just telling the truth.. I have one, and use it.. I do love the machine.. but it's not made to do the work I throw at it.. Like I said.. I make and sell Christmas ornaments.. I don't have time to dink around rebuilding Dewalt saws every year.. plus the motor doesn't like to run in the cold weather.. no heat in my shop yet and it gets cold here in Michigan..

You know... everything you say about the Hawk.. I can say about DeWalt.. DeWalt is a good saw.. why can't they use sealed bearings? why put the power switch up on top without sealing it up.. most power switches quit working after 6-12 months and most replace it buy buying a foot switch and covering up ( dust sealing ) the new switch..

Anyway my point is take your time to learn to use the saw and you most likely would like it.. I've been doing most my cutting on my Hawk since  Mid January.. but I still go back to the DeWalt for certain projects etc. I've gotten to be just about as fast cutting on my Hawk ( finally ).. If you don't want to take that time.. then I suppose sell it.. DeWalts are a good saw for a hobbyist.. but the amount of work I do.. I need a real machine to depend on.. so I have no choice but to give it a good long hard try.. or end up with several DeWalts and start paying someone to repair them for me.. I sent mine out once then I ended up spending a day tuning it as the repair shop didn't square the blade or the table and had the table on wrong to begin with so I still end up taking time to work on it..    

    

  

[kmmcrafts]

4 hours ago, rjweb said:

Rolf are you saying that hawk clamps are like the ones on the new jet, I have gotten use to the jet clamps and like you have them loaded and ready to go, RJ

The older Hawks have the same style ( barrel ) clamps as the new Jet saws.. But the newer Hawks have like the ones shown above.. My old Hawk has the Jet style and my newer Hawk has the ones like pictured above.. I like both really.. took some getting used to at first though..

Kevin

[DME72]

UPDATE

went back inside an read the manual again on blade clamping. as it turns out i did not have the blade in the bottom clamp all the way. the manual has a short sentence about it and that is all. made about 10 inside cuts and the blade change went alot smoother. yes i am still learning to use this brand of saw. i do not mind asking for help or ideas, several people on here commented about the clamps. i feel they could be different but it will take some getting used to i guess.now to the poster that said i was BASHING HAWK saws i stated what is my thoughts on my saw.yes it was user error on my part and i have learned something new. the same poster then turns around and bashes dewalt saws saying they will fall apart and that china loves this,well to bad my saw is a type 1 made by excalibur in canada! they did not start making them in china until after excalibur stopped making them about 2003 i believe. maybe that poster needs to start offering help instead of saying i asked for help then snapped when i got it. first off a couple people on here asked what the problem is that i am having.turns out it was user error.several people also said it is a bit of an adjustment to go from cutting on a dewalt saw to a hawk. then jttheclockman said i should go ahead and sell my saw and buy several dewalts because i will need them.yes i was upset with the saw but that was my fault, lack of use and understanding and such. jttheclockman has not offered ANY help, other than to say he hates to hear this type of BASHING,but does not offer any help or ask what could be done to help. yes i still think the hawks could use some modifications,just my thoughts. if someone gives a saw a review and does not give it 100% is it bashing? i dont think so. you will not build anything and have everyone like it! what i said is my thought on that saw. yes i still feel they are a little high on the price. now i am going to try and do some inside cut and blade changes.thanks to the people who offered to help.

doug

DME72

[hotshot]

Yep, time for this thread to die!

[kmmcrafts]

I am happy that you found part of the problem of using your new saw.. Even though you have that portion figured out.. it's still going to take some time to adjust to the different design of the Hawk.. I think if you give it enough time you will like it.. I like my Hawk a lot won't say I love it.. because every saw I have used I found things I think they could have done better.. My DeWalt has been an awesome saw for me for over 10 years.. Yes.. I've replaced the bearings in it a few times.. I have the newer Type 2 but I think for a $425 saw ( what I paid new with stand and light ) and have pretty much run it 8 hours a day which is way more than what it was designed to do at a mid level saw.. over those years the saw has paid for itself and several other large tools and equipment..not to mention the new shop 24 x 32 with a 14 x 32 loft.. so yeah I don't think DeWalts are junk.. they do what they were designed to do.. or at least mine has.. I just need more of a production type saw.. which used Hawks can be had for a price of a new DeWalt so I tried one. 

[SCROLLSAW703]

glad to hear ya figgered out some of the issue. The blade needs to hit bottom of the barrel holder, & the top one needs to be at the back of the blade holder, & pushed in til you feel it hit the stop in the holder. Then you'll have it! hang in there, you'll get it!

[Dave Monk]

12 hours ago, Rolf said:

Scrollsaw703 You are right on the spot. JT I agree with you  also, especially with the foot switch. 

I tried the BM 20 at the last open house and at a couple of other shows. Absolutely loved it, There is only one thing I would change on the saw, and that is the clip material that keeps the clamps in to beryllium copper a lighter springier material, but that is just me tinkering.

My 2005 Hawk G4 26 has the same removable clamps. The attached picture is the bottom clamp. I think it is the simplest clamp and if you strip one out from being heavy handed it is easy to replace with out removing parts of the machine like you would do on a Dewalt.

I keep a bunch of pre-loaded clamps ready to go for very fast blade changes. I don't get the problem, I hold the clamp with my left hand and tighten the blade with my right.

Why is that difficult? 

KMMCrafts, Interesting comment on the Delta clamps, I think they were the best clamps ever for a scroll saw, so much so that I put them on my upper arm of the Hawk. The trick with them was not to over tighten them. I adjust mine so that there is about 1/8 " before the cam tightens, perfect grip every time. I did not change this because I don't like the Hawk clamps but for speed. One day I will do a short video on my blade changes. 

Are you a bottom feeder?

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Doug at first you said poster than you call me by name. I said what I said because of your response. I don't get you. As for help I offer alot of help here. Can't help someone who gave up on the saw after a couple hours. As another poster pointed out for every problem you point out on the Hawk you can double it on the Dewalt. I too have a serier#1 Dewalt and do you want me to mention all those problems they had???  There were many. 

Don't just point me out because others here have told you the same thing as I did. Go back and read the responses. 

Again I will highlight your own words so do not tell me I won't help. When you got to this post sounded like you did not want help and made up your mind. 

Glad you found an operator error and maybe you will give the saw a chance to show you what a good saw it really is. It will take more than a couple hours of use to get use to. 

after only using it for a  couple of  hours  i dont really know that i want to get used to it! other than the usa made motor and electronics and being heavy built i dont think it is all it is cracked up to be. the on/off switch is not in a real handy spot,the blade holders are crap, and the more i use it the less i want to use it. this is supposed to be a enjoyable hobby, not a headache with the saw every time you have to make an inside cut! i also got the manual with it when i bought the saw. i have done what the manual says and i still dont like the clamp system. i am glad i bought this used because i would be upset if i had paid anywhere near the $1200 price tag they want for it new.

Edited June 2, 2017 by JTTHECLOCKMAN

[SCROLLSAW703]

1 hour ago, JTTHECLOCKMAN said:

Doug at first you said poster than you call me by name. I said what I said because of your response. I don't get you. As for help I offer alot of help here. Can't help someone who gave up on the saw after a couple hours. As another poster pointed out for every problem you point out on the Hawk you can double it on the Dewalt. I too have a serier#1 Dewalt and do you want me to mention all those problems they had???  There were many. 

Don't just point me out because others here have told you the same thing as I did. Go back and read the responses. 

Again I will highlight your own words so do not tell me I won't help. When you got to this post sounded like you did not want help and made up your mind. 

Glad you found an operator error and maybe you will give the saw a chance to show you what a good saw it really is. It will take more than a couple hours of use to get use to. 

after only using it for a  couple of  hours  i dont really know that i want to get used to it! other than the usa made motor and electronics and being heavy built i dont think it is all it is cracked up to be. the on/off switch is not in a real handy spot,the blade holders are crap, and the more i use it the less i want to use it. this is supposed to be a enjoyable hobby, not a headache with the saw every time you have to make an inside cut! i also got the manual with it when i bought the saw. i have done what the manual says and i still dont like the clamp system. i am glad i bought this used because i would be upset if i had paid anywhere near the $1200 price tag they want for it new.

I agree w/jt, doug. No matter what we offered up as experienced Hawk owners for help, you were argumentative & your comments about the saw got worse. You'll find there are all levels of scrollers here. Some with the "look what followed me home from the big box store, now what do I do" syndrome, some who can't read the owner's manual before flippin' the power switch, others of us that been at this 25 years or more & can make a saw do most anything we need it to do, regardless of the color. You'll also find that when you come here with an issue, we're more than willing to help you in one way or another. Whether you choose to take that advice is up to you. I, like JT, have several saws, & have worn out a few. And am on my second Hawk. And am well acquainted with them, & the team @ Bushton where they are built. You can learn alot from a scroll saw if you allow it to teach you. First being patience. Easy does it & try not fly off the handle when things don't go just right. Learn to listen, then put the noise to use.