Outside Signs

[Dave Monk]

A guy wants me to make a sign for him to go outside on his campsite.  If you have any input on materials and finishes I would appreciate it.  Makes me nervous........I like things to last.

[fredfret]

Cedar, Teak are the first things that come to mind. Those can be used without a finish. If a finish is used Spar varnish well rubbed in and use a couple thin coats. Cypress if avail might work. Cost and availability may dictate.

Fredfret

Wichita, ks

[WayneMahler]

Normally I use Western Red Cedar for outdoor work. I finish it with several light coats of Spar. I always tell me customers that in 2 years they will need to clean it and respray it for added protection. Keep in mind when mounting you need to use something like deck screws that are outdoor rated. Hope this helps.

[kmmcrafts]

I was told to use regular outdoor house paint.. they say it beats any other finish.. you have to buy it plain no pigment in it.. paint stores will think you're crazy for buying just the base, LOL.. When I bought mine I explained to the guy what I was doing.. he didn't believe it would dry clear and asked if he could do a small spot sample to see..  I used it once and the project still looks great ( about 4 years now ).. If you do go that route.. The stuff looks milky white.. but will dry clear.. you have to use several real light coats though.. too heavy of coats will make it dry sort of hazy and also can have the milky white look too if very heavy coats are applied..

 

[Phantom Scroller]

Baffled do you mean sealant paint for brickwork what paint are you using got a picture? Roly

[Birchbark]

If cost is no object, I'd use epoxy, it will still be around long after we're gone.

Russell

[hawkeye10]

10 hours ago, kmmcrafts said:

I was told to use regular outdoor house paint.. they say it beats any other finish.. you have to buy it plain no pigment in it.. paint stores will think you're crazy for buying just the base, LOL.. When I bought mine I explained to the guy what I was doing.. he didn't believe it would dry clear and asked if he could do a small spot sample to see..  I used it once and the project still looks great ( about 4 years now ).. If you do go that route.. The stuff looks milky white.. but will dry clear.. you have to use several real light coats though.. too heavy of coats will make it dry sort of hazy and also can have the milky white look too if very heavy coats are applied..

 

Kevin thanks for the tip on clear house paint. I would never dream you could buy paint this way. Do you have to buy a gallon or can you buy less?

[tvman44]

If it is not too big I use Cedar fencing boards.  Inexpensive & last a long time.  I have a couple of signs I use outside my camper and I made them with that.  A good coat of Minwax polyurethane varnish makes it last even longer.

[orangeman]

Cypress would work too

[kmmcrafts]

3 hours ago, hawkeye10 said:

Kevin thanks for the tip on clear house paint. I would never dream you could buy paint this way. Do you have to buy a gallon or can you buy less?

I don't remember where I bought mine at now.. but since we have a Menards and a Lowes I am assuming I got it at one of the two.. I bought mine in a quart.. I would assume you could get it in whatever size they sell it in.. The places around here that sell house paint get it pre-measured already in the can and shoppers can go back and pick what can / brand they want... then bring it to the counter to be colored.. Just tell them you don't want the color added, LOL But do have them shake it up for you.. You won't get quite a full can because they leave room for the color to be added.. They most likely will think you are off your rocker to LOL

 

Kevin 

[kmmcrafts]

6 hours ago, Phantom Scroller said:

Baffled do you mean sealant paint for brickwork what paint are you using got a picture? Roly

Just regular house paint for wood sided houses.. you would want the plain kind without the primer added.. can be latex but oil base is supposed to be better.. I used latex because I didn't want to buy a 5 gallon pale of oil base for one sign.. as they was sold out of the smaller cans of oil base.. I still have my can and never used it but for one sign.. Anyone close enough could have it.. LOL  Actually I did think about making router ed signs but still haven't done it because the demand for scroll work has kept me quite busy.. 

For what it's worth.. The sign I made was made from Red Oak with a Walnut Backer.. Been hanging outside now for I think 4 years.. looks same as it did when it was hung up..

Kevin

[kmmcrafts]

I was just searching for the web page where I learned of this.. but I cannot seem to find it very quick.. but anyway there is info out there online about doing this.. the one I found back when I did my project.. they showed a study and this guy painted some scraps of wood with several types of outdoor sealers etc.. and the house paint outlasted all of the other so called outdoor sealers.. If I remember correct the test was done in Florida.. 

Anyway, do some research on it... Also suggest you try it on a few scraps first.. because it can be a little tricky with getting the coats on thin so it will not clear hazy.. Was a tedious job for me as to the way I had fretwork to seal up etc.. To do over I'd probably try using my spray gun.. unless I had little to no fretwork..   

[hawkeye10]

2 hours ago, kmmcrafts said:

I don't remember where I bought mine at now.. but since we have a Menards and a Lowes I am assuming I got it at one of the two.. I bought mine in a quart.. I would assume you could get it in whatever size they sell it in.. The places around here that sell house paint get it pre-measured already in the can and shoppers can go back and pick what can / brand they want... then bring it to the counter to be colored.. Just tell them you don't want the color added, LOL But do have them shake it up for you.. You won't get quite a full can because they leave room for the color to be added.. They most likely will think you are off your rocker to LOL

 

Kevin 

Kevin I called Sherwin Williams  earlier today and they have never heard of such. I will call Lowes and Home Depot naext.

[stu]

i would use western red cedar cypress (yellow cedar) will turn black if not painted

[kmmcrafts]

21 hours ago, hawkeye10 said:

Kevin I called Sherwin Williams  earlier today and they have never heard of such. I will call Lowes and Home Depot naext.

I don't think you will find many people that will know anything about it.. LOL  Like I said earlier the worker where I bought it at thought I was a little off my rocker, LOL.. All it is is what they call Base Paint.. Base being un-mixed paint with out the color pigment added... I wish i could find the blog where I found this at.. but that was 4 years ago when I did my research.. The base paint looks white.. but actually dries clear..

Has to be exterior house paint as the exterior has UV, mildew, and bug protect-ant properties in it. Can be latex or oil base..  I used latex because that was the only one they had in small amounts on hand.. The blog I read mention either will work but oil base was better..   

[hawkeye10]

3 hours ago, kmmcrafts said:

I don't think you will find many people that will know anything about it.. LOL  Like I said earlier the worker where I bought it at thought I was a little off my rocker, LOL.. All it is is what they call Base Paint.. Base being un-mixed paint with out the color pigment added... I wish i could find the blog where I found this at.. but that was 4 years ago when I did my research.. The base paint looks white.. but actually dries clear..

Has to be exterior house paint as the exterior has UV, mildew, and bug protect-ant properties in it. Can be latex or oil base..  I used latex because that was the only one they had in small amounts on hand.. The blog I read mention either will work but oil base was better..   

Kevin I called Home Depot and they have it.. It can be bought in quarts, gallons, and five gallons. I told them what I was using it for and they said that there were some better products. I ask if they would last four years. I got no answer. People don't believe it but if you think about it you can believe it.

[heppnerguy]

What interesting input here. I love the many ideas that can come up with an answer to a single question. I is like a Free education

 

Dick

heppnerguy

[tomsteve]

On 6/3/2017 at 6:52 AM, hawkeye10 said:

Kevin thanks for the tip on clear house paint. I would never dream you could buy paint this way. Do you have to buy a gallon or can you buy less?

sherwin william A100 non tinted. thin, multiple coats for any water based/born clear finish.actually, waterbased finishes are the best for outdoor projects.theyve been on houses for years and the UV protectant is in the base, so untinted base works great. general finishes 450 is another great choice.

[Scrappile]

I'm with Heppnerguy, this is interesting info.  And, yes when you think about it it does make sense.

 What would be good for spraying these smaller things is one of those old hand pump fly spray sprayers.  Now you have to be as old as me to remember those.  That is what we use to paint things when I was a kid.  It worked good. 

But, reading the original post, this sign is for a campsite, I'm thinking the sign will only be out side and displayed when camping.  Maybe it would survive a long long time with just a good outdoor finish that you can buy in a rattle can.  Then you get a marble when the can is empty.

[CharleyL]

There is a plastic material called "Starboard" that was originally developed for the marine industry.Do a Google search for it to find the sources  It comes in many colors and is colorfast in Sunlight.  It is also the same color all the way through it and it comes in standard sheet stock thicknesses and 4' X 9' sizes There is a special glue for it, because most glues won't adhere to it. You can cut and shape this material with regular woodworking power tools. This material is the best, easily workable, material that I know of for making outdoor signs and other products that need to last a really long time, but it isn't cheap, so it may not be worth using it for this job.

I sometimes do work for the NC Science Museums, and they have gone away from using birch cabinet plywood with HP Laminate covering to using Starboard for most of the exhibit cabinet building, because it is so much more resistant to scratching, chipping, and graffiti. Cabinet assembly is usually done with hidden pocket screws, but sometimes it is also glued together.  On a side note - scraps of Starboard make great cutting boards for the kitchen, I think even better that HDPE, and with color choices..

If wood is the only option, use cedar, or white oak and design the sign so that all of the top surfaces are not flat, but slightly slopped so that rain will not collect on these surfaces and keep all of the  wood well sealed with exterior paint, caulking, or epoxy, or if the wood grain needs to show, covered with several coats of a good top quality Marine Spar Varnish, and add new coats of finish every few years.  The railings and spars of old sailing ships were preserved with frequent coats of boiled linseed oil. This works well, but smells bad for days after application, dries slowly, and needs to be re-coated frequently.

For safety when using linseed or other drying oils, all of the application tools, brushes, and rags should be put outside of your shop or residence in a pail of water very soon after use to avoid spontaneous combustion. Linseed Oil, tung oil and other drying oils react  with Oxygen in the air as they dry, but Boiled Linseed Oil is seemingly much more dangerous  than these other drying oils, and can burst into flames on it's own when it cannot give off this generated heat freely. This can happen quickly under the right conditions.  A bunched up Linseed Oil soaked rag laying on your workbench can become too hot to touch in less than an hour. The safest way to avoid these problems is to remove the materials from the building soon after use. I used to have a chain link fence that I would hang my oil soaked rags and brushes from while they dried to afford free air circulation around them and remove the heat.  but I no longer have one near my present shop. The pail of water is way safer anyway, but make certain that they remain below the surface of the water. The day following their use I remove them from the water and throw them into the trash.. 

Charley

[Dave Monk]

The ideas on this thread have been fantastic. Thanks to all of you. I will be trying a few. I love trying new ideas.

A year ago I made this original plaque. My customer put it under a covered porch.  When I originally sold it to them I told them that my plaques were not designed for outside. At the time I made it I was experimenting with a lot of different finishes so I have no idea what I used on it.

Last weekend they brought it back to me asking if  there was anything I could do with it to make it look better.

I love to try to satisfy my customers.

I decided that I would try a synthetic deck product that I bought at Lowe's to remake it. It cut fine except it was super hard on blades. It doesn't real clean. Cut edges left a bit fuzzy.  The material came in 11" x 96" x 3/4"

I hate how the "2" came out. I sure messed it up but I am not going to remake it for that.

[amazingkevin]

great ideas