Hegner - Convince Me To or Talk Me Out Of...

[Iguanadon]

A recent post of mine ended up going down a path I hadn't expected or planned, but in a good way.  If you're tired of Iggy and his banter, feel free to skip this post, it won't hurt my feelings.  Much. 

I'll try to be concise... here goes...

I've been scrolling seriously for exactly 1 year.  In that time I have now worn out two DW788 saws, meaning they start making noise and need some maintenance.  In this 1 year, I have cut 1,000-1,200 animal puzzles.  So, I'm only getting 500 or so puzzles out of each saw in about 6 months before needing to have work done on each saw.  I fully intended to do the maintenance myself, I even bought a 3rd one (used) as a backup to my backup so I'd have 3 in rotation... 1 I'm using, 1 that needs to be maintained and 1 ready to use in case of breakdown.

Two days ago I took the plunge and tore down my original saw to perform maintenance.  I had all the necessary bearings and sleeves on hand and felt pretty good about things.  I removed the main linkage and started greasing bearings, replaced a couple of sleeves and reassembled it.  I had a bit of an issue with my blade tensioner when I was done and pinpointed it to the top arm binding and not moving freely.  I loosened the case screw and that helped.  I started using the saw the next day and it was sounding better and doing well, but then then the knocking (more like "tapping") started again.  I simply am not patient enough or mechanically inclined enough to take the time to learn to maintain them properly.  I admit it, I'm a bit lazy and more than a bit impatient.  But it's also a matter of time.  I work full time and my puzzle "business" keeps me cutting 2-3 hours a day as well, not to mention attending sales events as a vendor.

So much for being concise... anyway... while I was discussing all of this on another thread yesterday, the subject of high quality saws came up and Hegner being the top of the line got me looking at them again and pondering the possibility.  

https://advanced-machinery.myshopify.com/products/multimax-22-v-variable-speed-scroll-saw?variant=29346710854

I'll admit, I'm 99% sure I will order one soon, but I value the thoughts and recommendations of the SSV members here.  Thanks to those that provided a lot of great information and feedback.  Also an offer to let me come try out a Hegner before buying it.  You guys and gals are great.

I emailed Advanced Machinery yesterday and they replied just a few hours later as I asked about maintenance/repair and their response helped convince me they are a quality saw which require very little maintenance, have a 7 year warranty and in almost all cases if a repair is needed, the part can be sent and I can replace it myself.  The machine is simple enough even an Iggy can work on it.

I have watched videos, I have read sales brochures, I have read the owners manual and while I know the saw has various differences from the Dewalt, I feel I can adjust to them.  The blade loading is quite unique but I use the same blade for everything, so I only swap them out when they wear out, about every 4 or 5 puzzles.  I bottom feed for inside cuts so I will get the optional blade QuickClamp.

The great thing is I have my wife's approval to buy one.  :-)  Seriously, it's great that she supports me, and my puzzles sell well enough that I can pay for it from my sales easily enough.

I've looked at the Hawk as well and while it seems to be somewhat similar to the Hegner, I feel more confident about the history and reliability of the Hegner.  I don't mind paying a little more for quality.

 Here's your chance to live vicariously through me... let me know your experience with the Hegner if you have one or if you've done research and have some helpful hints or information.  Any and all feedback is welcome.

Thanks in advance,

Iggy

[hotshot]

Hegners are a lot of money.  Worth every penny to some, and a huge disappointment to others.  Try before you buy.  If you lived close enough I would let you use my Multimax 22v for a month.

[nrscroller]

HI

I have a hegner VS18 and have owned it for over 10 years and I love it. I mostly make smaller ornaments and things. It always cuts right on, I like the smaller table for the size things I am doing. I bought mine used off Craigslist and drove 3 hours to get it. I paid about half what a new one was at that time, it had very little hours on it. The only thing I have noticed that my tension knob that is on the back end of saw seems to  loosen up now and then. I mostly cut 1/8 in bb plywood and now I use the great Pegas 2/0 blades. I did unhook the bellows and am blowing my air with an airbrush compressor hooked up to my foot switch and I get lots better sawdust cleanning around blade area. Keep your eyes out for a  nice one on Craigslist. Make sure you get variable speed and the quick blade release.

Good Luck,

Bill

[rjweb]

I can see you buying a quality built saw, and like you say 500 Puzzels and the Dewalt needs maintance, now how is maintance on this saw, easier than the Dewalt. My brother in law has an old Hegner about 20 years, the motor just went on it, I feel he got his money's worth for it. Am I correct that they are made in Germany. Good luck with your decision, RJ

[blights69]

I have the Hegner Multicut 2S Scrollsaw Variable Speed as you may know I am relatively new to this scroll saw lark but I have been on the tools all my life until ill health forced me to quit before I purchased this I used an old Axminster that was snapped in half off of ebay for £45 I did not want to pay out and not be able to get on with scrolling so done it this way I just screwed it to a board and hey presto broke in half or not she cut lol anyways whilst learning I researched and researched and then went out and about and tried several different ones, I also spoke to a lot of people about which scroll saw would they recommend the majority would come back and say Hegner and it was always for the same reason most had bought one and had it for many years with no issues the main reason I think people buy this brand is the reliability of them parts are easy to get also, they are pretty pricey here in the UK but they do say you get what you pay for just my input for what it is worth (oh by the way Hegners can cut vinyl too) lol The unit is solid not much vibration not too noisy either it is a bottom feed of course so far so good with mine no problems mechanically I have just bought some more clamps though as I snapped the grub screw in one the other day could of been avoided I felt it going weak and carried on using it instead of changing out the screw quick lol lesson learned a 20p screw change ended up being a £8 clamp. I always look on fleabay in case a 2nd hand one comes up local as I would like a back up just in case plus it can be set up to let any young uns that may come a visiting have a go . Good luck with your research and what ever you decide on buying me personally 6 months in  and a strip down on a dewalt naaaah not for me.

[tonylumps]

That is a tuff call.Only because of the 1800.00 and you never touched a Hegner.Now if you were looking at a good used Hegner with all of the updates for about about 700-800 That would be a no brainer.If i needed a good saw yesterday i don't know what I would do if i could not wait for a used Hegner.Because you are used to the Dewalt type of saw i would be looking at The jet or Seyco Neither one has enough time on the road.But if you think you could survive the learning curve. That saw you are looking at is a dream and the type of work you do with 3 loaded clamps you could do a lot of cutting and never look back.A lot of people use the nickel test.On the Hegner you use the dime test.If you go for it order all of the extras with it.I have about 6 clamps 2 different sizes.

[Scrappile]

And when you get the clams mark the size of each on the each clamp..  I wish they came stamped with the size.  If they get mixed, good luck telling the difference by looks.  I not sure which I am using, now.  It works so I do not really care.

[kmmcrafts]

If I were you.. I'd probably piece together the DeWalts as long as you can and opt to look for a used Hegner or Hawk.. You seem to have your mind made up on the Hegner so I guess maybe Hawk is out of the question now? or at least give one a good couple hour test run..  Like I said in the other post.. being able to adjust the aggressiveness of the cut is worth it's weight in gold when you get a saw that cuts a lot slower and cannot adjust the aggressiveness.. One thing that you can help compensate is using larger blades to help cut faster.. Not sure if the blade can be adjusted on the Hegners.. but if not.. the type of work you do is typically thicker wood.. and in order to keep the puzzles tight.. you probably don't want to go to a larger blade.. so the only option is being able to adjust the blade front to back for a more aggressive cut.  

Maybe cutting fast is not a concern of yours.. but for me.. time is money and if I could cut 1 or two more puzzle per day.. that time and money ads up over a years time.. 

I plan to own or at least try out a Hegner one day.. Maybe I would like one better than my Hawks..

[Iguanadon]

8 minutes ago, kmmcrafts said:

If I were you.. I'd probably piece together the DeWalts as long as you can and opt to look for a used Hegner or Hawk.. You seem to have your mind made up on the Hegner so I guess maybe Hawk is out of the question now? or at least give one a good couple hour test run..  Like I said in the other post.. being able to adjust the aggressiveness of the cut is worth it's weight in gold when you get a saw that cuts a lot slower and cannot adjust the aggressiveness.. One thing that you can help compensate is using larger blades to help cut faster.. Not sure if the blade can be adjusted on the Hegners.. but if not.. the type of work you do is typically thicker wood.. and in order to keep the puzzles tight.. you probably don't want to go to a larger blade.. so the only option is being able to adjust the blade front to back for a more aggressive cut.  

Maybe cutting fast is not a concern of yours.. but for me.. time is money and if I could cut 1 or two more puzzle per day.. that time and money ads up over a years time.. 

I plan to own or at least try out a Hegner one day.. Maybe I would like one better than my Hawks..

Keep the comments coming folks.

kmm, let me ask you what you mean by adjusting the aggressiveness of the cut.  The Hegner is variable speed, as is the Dewalt.  Is there something else that causes the Hegner to cut "slower".  

I'm not overly concerned if I'm forced to cut a little slower.  My goal is to cut 5 puzzles a day, about 2 hours of cutting per day.  An extra few minutes won't cause me any problems, but just wondering what could slow down the cutting process.  And you're right, I can't go with a bigger/thicker blade.  I use a #3 blade in order to keep the puzzle pieces as tight as possible.

Thanks again for your thoughts.

Iggy

[kmmcrafts]

1 hour ago, Iguanadon said:

Keep the comments coming folks.

kmm, let me ask you what you mean by adjusting the aggressiveness of the cut.  The Hegner is variable speed, as is the Dewalt.  Is there something else that causes the Hegner to cut "slower".  

What I mean is.. blade movement from front to back.. the more movement front to back the more aggressive the saw will cut or faster cutting..  Not sure if the Hegners have any type of adjustment for this.. Ex's, Newer Hawks, Jets, and Seyco saws have this feature.. If you go to the Hawks web site they mention the adjustment in their video and show how to do it.. very simple.. not sure how it's done on the other saws..

Kevin

 

[tonylumps]

The more the blade angle front to back the more aggresive the cut.On the EX you can adjust the angle buy loosening the 3 bolts on the motor and spin the motor in very small increments.When cutting puzzles I found out less aggresive the better because I have a hard time with tight turns.The hegner has no adjustments.The blade is always straight You make up for it in motor RPM.The new hawk has it under the table with very easy access to the adjustment.Nice system.The new BM series look really nice. It looks like they did there homework

[NC Scroller]

This is my 2 cents....

There is no perfect saw.  Some excel at one or two things but fall short on other things.  Then there are those saws that excel at nothing. Some are easier to tension.  Some are easier to change blades. Some are easier to do fret work then others.  Some will cut a perfect 90 and others never will.  Some are top feed only.  Some are bottom feed only.  Some can do both.  I own or have owned 5 different brands (Dremel, Dewalt, Hawk, Excalibur and Hegner).  The Hawk and Hegner I got second hand.  The two that I am running right now are the Excalibur and the Hegner. I also cut some puzzle but more like 50 - 60 per year.  For your puzzle making I think the Hegner will outlast 15-20 Dewalts before doing any maintenance .  Now the down side.  Because Hegner is cutting a true 90 (front to back blade movement) it will cut slower then the Dewalt.  It also requires a tool to change the blade.  If I was in your shoes I would bite the bullet and get a Hegner.

 

[Iguanadon]

28 minutes ago, NC Scroller said:

This is my 2 cents....

There is no perfect saw.  Some excel at one or two things but fall short on other things.  Then there are those saws that excel at nothing. Some are easier to tension.  Some are easier to change blades. Some are easier to do fret work then others.  Some will cut a perfect 90 and others never will.  Some are top feed only.  Some are bottom feed only.  Some can do both.  I own or have owned 5 different brands (Dremel, Dewalt, Hawk, Excalibur and Hegner).  The Hawk and Hegner I got second hand.  The two that I am running right now are the Excalibur and the Hegner. I also cut some puzzle but more like 50 - 60 per year.  For your puzzle making I think the Hegner will outlast 15-20 Dewalts before doing any maintenance .  Now the down side.  Because Hegner is cutting a true 90 (front to back blade movement) it will cut slower then the Dewalt.  It also requires a tool to change the blade.  If I was in your shoes I would bite the bullet and get a Hegner.

 

Thanks Scott, I appreciate you sharing your vast experience with so many types of saws.  My favorite sentence was "For your puzzle making I think the Hegner will outlast 15-20 Dewalts before doing any maintenance."

I won't mind it cutting a bit slower, it'll help to teach me patience.  LOL  I'll order extra clamps so that I can pre-feed 3 blades and have them ready as I wear them out (every 4 or 5 puzzles).  I rarely cut long enough in a day to go through more than 3 blades.  Then I'll swap out the bad ones at the end of the day and have fresh ones ready for the next day.

 

[Bfreeman]

Iggy

I have some experience with Hegners I have two the VS 18 and the VS 22 , I bought the 18 in 2001 new and have used it almost  every day with no problem till this spring the speed control started acting up so I replaced it I didn't try to fix it .

I have used both saws on thick and thin material and have never had a problem with any type of cutting.

I have tried many different saws but none can compare to the Hegners. 

Thats my story and I am sticking to it.

Bill

[SCROLLSAW703]

jmo, I've had five different saws. Craftsman, Hitachi, Dremel, Hawk, & Master Mechanic. The Hawk & Hitachi saws are the best there is, imo. No tools are needed to change blades. Both are Variable speed. I've wore out a Craftsman & a Hawk I bought used. Then I traded it for the bm - 26 Hawk i have now. It can be used as a top or bottom feed saw, has the ability to hold 6 racked blades, tension release at the front, keeps & holds tension. More than plenty of power. The aggressiveness of the blade is easily adjusted. Variable speed up to 1750. SUPER QUIET MACHINE! Very stable on its feet. plenty of work table room, & best of all, it's built here in Kansas, & there is no problem with it the Hawk tech folks can't solve with it. Parts availability is dead on! The hawk cuts a perfect line, & great for fretwork, heavy, thick work, & will make a perfect 90. I use rough sawn hardwood in all my projects. The Hawk makes easy work of it!

My Hitachi will, too. As many hours as I've put on it, & its 23 years old, the only two things i've ever done to it is replace the power & vs switch. As many bad marks as that saw has agin' it in the reviews, it's one of the best saws I ever bought, & still use.

Were I you, I would do some serious research on saw capabilities & try to drive one of each you're interested in before you dump your cash into something you won't enjoy using.

Edited June 10, 2017 by SCROLLSAW703

[Iguanadon]

54 minutes ago, Bfreeman said:

Iggy

I have some experience with Hegners I have two the VS 18 and the VS 22 , I bought the 18 in 2001 new and have used it almost  every day with no problem till this spring the speed control started acting up so I replaced it I didn't try to fix it .

I have used both saws on thick and thin material and have never had a problem with any type of cutting.

I have tried many different saws but none can compare to the Hegners. 

Thats my story and I am sticking to it.

Bill

Thanks Bill, quite the seal of approval.

[Iguanadon]

24 minutes ago, SCROLLSAW703 said:

jmo, I've had five different saws. Craftsman, Hitachi, Dremel, Hawk, & Master Mechanic. The Hawk & Hitachi saws are the best there is, imo. No tools are needed to change blades. Both are Variable speed. I've wore out a Craftsman & a Hawk I bought used. Then I traded it for the bm - 26 Hawk i have now. It can be used as a top or bottom feed saw, has the ability to hold 6 racked blades, tension release at the front, keeps & holds tension. More than plenty of power. The aggressiveness of the blade is easily adjusted. Variable speed up to 1750. SUPER QUIET MACHINE! Very stable on its feet. plenty of work table room, & best of all, it's built here in Kansas, & there is no problem with it the Hawk tech folks can't solve with it. Parts availability is dead on! The hawk cuts a perfect line, & great for fretwork, heavy, thick work, & will make a perfect 90. I use rough sawn hardwood in all my projects. The Hawk makes easy work of it!

My Hitachi will, too. As many hours as I've put on it, & its 23 years old, the only two things i've ever done to it is replace the power & vs switch. As many bad marks as that saw has agin' it in the reviews, it's one of the best saws I ever bought, & still use.

Were I you, I would do some serious research on saw capabilities & try to drive one of each you're interested in before you dump your cash into something you won't enjoy using.

Good stuff Brad.  I looked at the Hawk and they look impressive.  Asking about saw brands is like starting a discussion of Ford versus Chevy.  Thanks for the info.

[hawkeye10]

I have been looking on the net at Hawk saws. The thing that really impressed me was to be able to go from an aggressive cut to not so much. To me that would be a big plus as I do a variety of projects.

[Scrappile]

The fact that the Hegner is not as an aggressive cut only means that you may want to change to a more aggressive blade.

[Rolf]

As most know I am a major proponent of Hawk saws (2005 and newer) That said we have a variety of saws in our club. The majority of them are Hegners. Some members have been scrolling with them for 60+ years. 

The question of maintenance on Hegners and Hawks. They are simple machines, no complex linkages, no shrouds to be removed, the clamps are separate pieces that snap in not part of the mechanical arm that can strip or bend with a heavy handed user (me).  All of the bearings and bushings are easy to get at should you need to.

But there is no need with routine maintenance. I have broken a spring on my Hawk since May of 2005 , bought some extra clamps and replaced one bearing because it just didn't feel right to me. 

I chose the Hawk because it was a top and bottom feeder and it has more room under the upper arm for my style of cutting. I was lucky to have the variety in our club where I could do a side by side comparison.

Like Hotshot said it would be great if you could take the saw for an extended test drive. As we have seen before some folks are not comfortable with change. And all saws have their differences. 

 

[orangeman]

I have a VS22 Hegner and a DeWalt. Been cutting puzzles for 10 years now and this is my 4th DeWalt. The Hegner sits in the corner. I have found it difficult to adjust to get a true 90 degree angle which you know is necessary for puzzles. Then there is blade breakage. I have never broken a blade on a DeWalt. The Hegner is a different story! Occasionally I cut stamp puzzles with a jewelers blade and Christmas card puzzles with the FD puzzle blade. In my opinion this would be impossible with the Hegner. I recently bought a little used Hawk for $100 and it sits in my garage - need to find a place in my shop for it but from appearance it looks like it would have the same issue re stamp puzzles and Christmas card puzzles.

[kmmcrafts]

3 hours ago, hawkeye10 said:

I have been looking on the net at Hawk saws. The thing that really impressed me was to be able to go from an aggressive cut to not so much. To me that would be a big plus as I do a variety of projects.

After having one that adjust.. I wouldn't buy a saw that didn't adjust.. I also do a wide variety of projects.. and cutting thicker stock with a saw that is not very aggressive is like driving on the expressway at 10mph LOL... especially after cutting on an aggressive Dewalt saw for the last 10 years..  

[kmmcrafts]

3 hours ago, Scrappile said:

The fact that the Hegner is not as an aggressive cut only means that you may want to change to a more aggressive blade.

The problem with doing that is he strictly cuts puzzles.. and a more aggressive blade typically means a wider kurf. and a wider kurf makes a sloppy puzzle..

[SCROLLSAW703]

i disagree with ya on that on, km. I've got my Hawk adjusted to be fairly aggressive, & I use #0 & #1 blades regularly with no issues. I even use #0/2 blades from time to time, & haven't changed the setting since I adjusted it where I wanted it when I set it new. It's all in the touch, & how fine tuned your saw is. I use 1/2" or better hardwoods in all my projects. 

Every blade has a different kerf & a different number of teeth at different angle set on each type of blade. Knowing the difference between aggressiveness & blade purpose is huge. Yes,  a bigger blade will be more aggressive, & cut a wider kerf, in turn chewing more wood. Where as having the ability to adjust aggressiveness & use a smaller blade not only handles less wood, but cuts down on wear & heat on the blade, & cuts a smaller kerf. Therefore getting longer blade life. That's why I'm a Hawk advocate. Because, like Mr. Rolf stated, there is no machine on the market any simpler made, easier to work on, all the bearings are sealed, & takes little maintenance. The blade holders hold all sizes of blades, can be used for top or bottom feeders, easy to set up & use. 

Edited June 10, 2017 by SCROLLSAW703

[Jim Finn]

I had a similar experience with DeWalt saw.  I tossed it after it pooped out at 22 months.  I bought a Hegner and love it.  I now have two Hegners .  A new (in 2008) Polymax-3 and a used (1986) 25" multimax-3.  The Polymax has belt change speed control and the Multimax is single speed.  For fretwork I would suggest a DeWalt with it's brushed motor but for thicker cutting the induction motors on my Hegners are the way to go.