Hegner - Convince Me To or Talk Me Out Of...

[OzarkSawdust]

Even though it's an old topic it is still very interesting. Wonder what Iggy has to say about the Hawk after using it for a while. I watched a video by Bushton Mfg. and was impressed. Cuts 2 1/2"??? Wow! With all the other new equipment lately I can't afford one now...but maybe next year's upgrade. They are only about 280 miles from me, when I get serious I may go see them and get my hands on one.

Edited March 10, 2021 by OzarkSawdust

[kmmcrafts]

2 hours ago, Rolf said:

Ben 2008 Interesting that this discussion has come back to life. 

I just went through my 2005 Hawk G4 26 because it had a squeak, It seems I didn't put three spacers in the correct order on the pitman arm when I replaced it many years ago. Also put a bit of lithium grease on the upper bushing where it connects to the lower arm. 

I know you have installed a hour meter on your Hawk.. Just curious how many hours you have on it.. I installed hour meters on all my saws back in 2018.. My new Hawk I ordered has little over 230 ish hours.. I rotate between 4 saws and sometimes use the 5th saw which doesn't have a hour meter on it.. Both the other older Hawks are pushing 150-175 hours and my EX-21 is in the 250 hours range.. The EX needed rebuilt at around the 120 hour mark but I just took it apart and cleaned / greased it. got another 50 hours before I did the full rebuild..  So far have needed nothing on any of the Hawks other than the oldest one (1993) $100 saw I basically rebuilt it back when I installed the meters.. and the newer 1998 ultra needed new pitman arm bearings.. as it had a squeak.

May not get too many hours on the saws this year as I'm playing with the CNC and Laser as of lately.. 

[kmmcrafts]

1 hour ago, OzarkSawdust said:

Even though it's an old topic it is still very interesting. Wonder what Iggy has to say about the Hawk after using it for a while. I watched a video by Bushton Mfg. and was impressed. Cuts 2 1/2"??? Wow! With all the other new equipment lately I can't afford one now...but maybe next year's upgrade. They are only about 280 miles from me, when I get serious I may go see them and get my hands on one.

Iggy didn't like the saw and gave it away to someone.. He is a devoted DeWalt guy.. even bought a new Pegas and didn't really care for it either and went back to his trusty DW's.. You get used to a certain way a saw cuts and it takes a long time to get into the groove with a new saw... some people struggle with that change.. 

I bought a new one back in Dec. 2017 but didn't take delivery of it until late March 2018.. I love it... 

[Rockytime]

My Hegner's blade just goes up and down, up and down, up and down, up and down, up and down, up and down...

[Rolf]

18 hours ago, Rockytime said:

My Hegner's blade just goes up and down, up and down, up and down, up and down, up and down, up and down...

How did you fix it? Every Hegner I have used only goes Down and Up. Down and UP. 

 

Kevin I will have 450 hrs on the Hawk, but I didn't put a meter on it for the first few years. I only started tracking the time when I started the test cutting for FC in 2010.  I have 35 hours on the EX 16 since I got it in Oct 2019.  I have not been doing that much scrolling as my focus has been on my car. 

Also no fairs last year, so no need for inventory.

 

 

Edited March 11, 2021 by Rolf

[kmmcrafts]

3 hours ago, Rolf said:

How did you fix it? Every Hegner I have used only goes Down and Up. Down and UP. 

 

Kevin I will have 450 hrs on the Hawk, but I didn't put a meter on it for the first few years. I only started tracking the time when I started the test cutting for FC in 2010.  I have 35 hours on the EX 16 since I got it in Oct 2019.  I have not been doing that much scrolling as my focus has been on my car. 

Also no fairs last year, so no need for inventory.

 

 

It takes a lot longer than one would think to put a lot of "actual cutting time" hours on a saw.. While I do spend a good 30,40,50 hours every week in the shop.. I'm lucky to actually put 15-20 hours on the saw a week.. and that would be a pretty busy week of cutting.. I think I'm averaging about 400 ish hours a year of actual saw running time.. No doubt this will go down some since I'm putting a bit more focus on CNC and laser work this year.. I usually do a 100 hours on one saw then move to a different one for the next 100 hours.. so each saw gets at least 100 hours a year. Had the new Hawk going on 3 years and nearing the 300 hours..  I split it up between saws not only to keep from wearing out a saw in no time flat.. but to also make sure that a saw isn't rusting up or the grease dries out from just sitting.. Almost as hard on equipment to just sit as it is to over use it.. If I was to only use the one saw.. in the last 3 years.. I'd have over 1000 hours on it.. And to think my EX - 21 was only good for the 150 ish hours before needing bearings.. Though it was a cheaper China made saw.. soo. But I'm betting the DW's and older EX's was probably getting 2-300 hours before needing bearings etc.. 

I think it'd be interesting if all saws had a hour meter hooked up to them.. wonder how many hours a saw is actually good for.. Scott wears out a DW every 12-15 months.. I'd guess that'd probably be the 300 ish hours..

[new2woodwrk]

9 hours ago, Rolf said:

How did you fix it? Every Hegner I have used only goes Down and Up. Down and UP. 

 

Kevin I will have 450 hrs on the Hawk, but I didn't put a meter on it for the first few years. I only started tracking the time when I started the test cutting for FC in 2010.  I have 35 hours on the EX 16 since I got it in Oct 2019.  I have not been doing that much scrolling as my focus has been on my car. 

Also no fairs last year, so no need for inventory.

 

 

Meter? How would you/did you hook up a meter?

Does it connect directly to the machine or do you have to start it and stop it?

Interesting topic because I've been trying to think of how to do this at the moment.

Right now I use a watch LOL

[kmmcrafts]

1 hour ago, new2woodwrk said:

Meter? How would you/did you hook up a meter?

Does it connect directly to the machine or do you have to start it and stop it?

Interesting topic because I've been trying to think of how to do this at the moment.

Right now I use a watch LOL

If you just want to time projects you can just get a three way plug and plug it into your foot switch ( provided you use one ) and then get a electric clock and set time to whatever hour you want.. the clock will run with the saws on / off.. 

I used an actual hour meter.. bought a short extension cord and cut the one end off to put on the spade electric connecters to plug into the meter and then plug the other end into the three way plug.. comes on with the foot switch etc as the saw does..

I have both a analog meter and a digital.. and there is advantages to both as well as disadvantages.. First off you have to remember that ( the ones I have and I think they are all this way) the meter runs on 1/10th digits.. so it takes 6 minutes to change the 1/10 of an hour digit. so with that said if you have a digital version you could be off 6 minute from being accurate.. However the digital one I have has three mode settings.. two of which can be cleared out back to 0 and the one is a continues hours. 

The analog one you can see somewhat where the 1/10 digit is and guestimate a closer time value.. This is my favorite one.. Also the digital one runs off a battery.. and it's not a replaceable battery so when it dies it's done for.. I have two digital and two analog.. I prefer the analog one better.

To learn a little more.. Steve Good did this years ago and put a write-up on his blog.. and a link to the digital meter.. I lost the link to the digital one but this is the analog one I bought.. I think the price doubled since I bought mine.. I saved the link as I wanted to get more of them.. just never did..

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Hour-Meter-Generator-or-any-120-Volts-AC-60-hz-ProG713/321893404814?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

Edited March 12, 2021 by kmmcrafts

[Rockytime]

12 hours ago, Rolf said:

How did you fix it? Every Hegner I have used only goes Down and Up. Down and UP. 

 

 

 

 

I stand on my head and scroll but I can't do it for very long. :>)

[Rockytime]

I have a clock on both my Hegners. Just cheap $12 alarm clocks from Amazon tied into a three way plug. Why a clock? I find I'm always curious how long I cut on a project, mostly fret work especially with lots of holes. I'm cutting a piece with perhaps over 1000 holes many of which are not much bigger than the blade. I don't sell anything so it is just for my own curiosity. If I were selling I would certainly want to know the time spent on projects. The clock runs when the saw does. Of course all the time spent drilling and switching blades from hole to hole has to be estimated. Overall I just find it fun.

[flarud]

Damn,  I just read this whole thread and I'm not even thinking about buying a new saw!  LOL

[Joe W.]

Yeah, I just read it also and my take-aways were that 1) sealed bearings make for a machine that needs less maintenance and 2) there seems to be enough demand for scroll saws that even if you bought a saw you decided you didn't like, you would be able to resell it and recoup most of your money, chalking up the difference to research and experience.

And 3) For those who scroll saw for a living, machine maintenance/replacement costs and associated time is a part of the business and has to be quantified to get a true picture of how efficient their business is.  
For me, it's a hobby and I'm having a blast with it.  
  
  

[Rolf]

Rockytime Instead of a clock I have one of these connected, like you do. When not timing a project I keep track of the time on the blade. One thing I have learned is that my blades last longer on the EX than on my Hawk. My Olson 2/0R 28TPI gets dull in 15 min on the Hawk and about 25 on the EX. I think that the added stroke speed on the Hawk generates more heat causing the blade to dull faster. JMO  Or the long arms of the Hawk put greater stress on the blades? Any thoughts?

 

EX 400-1400

Hawk 30-1725 

Edited March 12, 2021 by Rolf

[Rolf]

Newtowoodwork. As Kevin and the others have said I have an outlet strip connected to my footswitch with my timer and saw plugged into it.  On my EX for tracking the actual runtime hours for maintenance purposes I put a hour meter (Amazon)  in the line that goes to the motor.  I mounted it in a pvc box attached to the saw table. 

[kmmcrafts]

22 minutes ago, Rolf said:

Rockytime Instead of a clock I have one of these connected, like you do. When not timing a project I keep track of the time on the blade. One thing I have learned is that my blades last longer on the EX than on my Hawk. My Olson 2/0R 28TPI gets dull in 15 min on the Hawk and about 25 on the EX. I think that the added stroke speed on the Hawk generates more heat causing the blade to dull faster. JMO  Or the long arms of the Hawk put greater stress on the blades? Any thoughts?

 

EX 400-1400

Hawk 30-1725 

I experience the same with blades.. But I don't think it has to do with the speed.. but I do think it's from heat.. For instance.. I don't run my Hawk full speed.. Probably closer to the same speed as max speed on the EX.. which I do run full speed. However.. when I had my DeWalt, I did run it full speed ( 1700 spm ).. and blades lasted longer than the Hawk still.. I think it has more to do with the blade having a more straight up / down movement on the Hawk which doesn't back the blade away from the material nearly as much and letting the sawdust clear better. The short rocker arm saws such as the DW, EX etc saws give a more rocking motion of the blade which backs the blade out away farther from the heated cut line.. Even though you adjust the blade to be more straight up / down at the table height it's still backing away motion enough to cool the blade more.. Also as you noted.. those long arms ( especially on the 26" saw ) create a lot more stress on the blade than that little short arm of those other saws.. There is probably "some" blade flex with those long arms and having it powered from the lower arm like they are designed especially with those real small blade.. Randy ( HotShot ) talked about this flexing issue when he had his Hawk.. I don't use anything smaller than a #3 most times unless it's a spiral.. most times those are a 2/0.. 

I'm not sure how you all adjust your saws.. but I've never been able to get as true of a straight up down at the material height on my EX as I get with the Hawk.. I have it set as close as it can get.. yet it's still more aggressive cutting than the Hawk is.. However I do set the blade angle on my new Hawk to be slightly more aggressive.. since I do mostly cut 1/2 - 3/4 material most all the time.. But cutting 1/8 - 1/4 material I find the Hawk is easier to control the cut than the EX is.. Both are doable easily but the Hawk I'm more " relaxed" during the cutting process.. If that makes sense.   

[Rolf]

Kevin I did not give the blade front back motion a thought.  I do have my blade motion on the EX almost vertical. I will measure my Hawk and the EX when I get some play time. 

You make a good point about actual run time. When doing fretwork, Depending on the saw, the  project may take several hours but the actual cutting only a portion of that.

Some of you are probably wondering why this is even of any interest. I am a tinkerer, can't help it.

 

Edited March 13, 2021 by Rolf

[Rockytime]

4 hours ago, Rolf said:

Kevin I did not give the blade front back motion a thought.  I do have my blade motion on the EX almost vertical. I will measure my Hawk and the EX when I get some play time. 

You make a good point about actual run time. When doing fretwork, Depending on the saw, the  project may take several hours but the actual cutting only a portion of that.

Some of you are probably wondering why this is even of any interest. I am a tinkerer, can't help it.

 

Likewise!

[rash_powder]

I like mine; although i don't use it in a year as much as you would in a month.  

I have been using Honda Moly 60 Paste to lube the bearings.  If you look up and read a little bit about this sort of grease and Molybdenum Disulphide, you will find it will lubricate after the carrier oil is burned off and up through about 700 degrees f.  Way overkill for our needs; which to me makes it a perfect fit as it decreases time between lubes.  

I've made a sacrificial table for mine as I don't have that nice insert in the table.  The bump stop has been moved so the upper arm has more clearance.  That was probably the single greatest mod to the saw.  Makes getting parts in and out easier.  

Thats all I know.  I think you will really like your new Hegner.

[Scrappile]

18 hours ago, rash_powder said:

I like mine; although i don't use it in a year as much as you would in a month.  

I have been using Honda Moly 60 Paste to lube the bearings.  If you look up and read a little bit about this sort of grease and Molybdenum Disulphide, you will find it will lubricate after the carrier oil is burned off and up through about 700 degrees f.  Way overkill for our needs; which to me makes it a perfect fit as it decreases time between lubes.  

I've made a sacrificial table for mine as I don't have that nice insert in the table.  The bump stop has been moved so the upper arm has more clearance.  That was probably the single greatest mod to the saw.  Makes getting parts in and out easier.  

Thats all I know.  I think you will really like your new Hegner.

Are you lubing the bushings with a paste?  Do you remove them each time to lube them?  Or are you talking bearings,,, I do no know of bearings on a hegner... Not saying there isn't any, just saying I do not know of any..

[OCtoolguy]

20 hours ago, rash_powder said:

I like mine; although i don't use it in a year as much as you would in a month.  

I have been using Honda Moly 60 Paste to lube the bearings.  If you look up and read a little bit about this sort of grease and Molybdenum Disulphide, you will find it will lubricate after the carrier oil is burned off and up through about 700 degrees f.  Way overkill for our needs; which to me makes it a perfect fit as it decreases time between lubes.  

I've made a sacrificial table for mine as I don't have that nice insert in the table.  The bump stop has been moved so the upper arm has more clearance.  That was probably the single greatest mod to the saw.  Makes getting parts in and out easier.  

Thats all I know.  I think you will really like your new Hegner.

RE: your mention of moly lube, when I went through GM school back in the late 60's they were having a lot of trouble with the posi-traction rear ends jerking when going around corners. The fix was to put a tube of moly lube in the differentials. That stopped the problem. Great stuff.

 

[OCtoolguy]

1 hour ago, Scrappile said:

Are you lubing the bushings with a paste?  Do you remove them each time to lube them?  Or are you talking bearings,,, I do no know of bearings on a hegner... Not saying there isn't any, just saying I do not know of any..

The only "bearings" that I know of on a Hegner are the two that are located in the bell-crank arm attached to the motor and lower arm. And as far as I know they are sealed. The reference has to be about greasing the arm bushings. I wonder why they don't just use an oilite bushing instead.

 

[Rockytime]

56 minutes ago, octoolguy said:

The only "bearings" that I know of on a Hegner are the two that are located in the bell-crank arm attached to the motor and lower arm. And as far as I know they are sealed. The reference has to be about greasing the arm bushings. I wonder why they don't just use an oilite bushing instead.

 

Oillite bushings make great sense. I doubt my bushings will ever need replacement but oillite would make sense.

[Ronny80]

Hi, I have another question for the Hegner owners. What is the distance between the top plate and the clamp, with blade on tension and the top arm in down position. On the specifications is 6,5Cm. On my Hegner multicut se does not arrive to 6cm

[Rockytime]

6.67258 cm on my 18" Hegner

[Ronny80]

14 minutes ago, Rockytime said:

6,67258 cm sul mio Hegner da 18 "

Do you use quickClamp or normal clamp?