Scrolling problem.

[johnnyo]

Hello, thanks to Google I found your forum. I'm 83, retired & decided to try scrolling. Something I've always wanted to do. So I bought me a scroll saw, a Dremel, 1680, takes both pinned & plain blades. So I thought this would fill the need.. WRONG.. I got a couple of patterns, drilled the hole to start the blade. But I have trouble threading the blade. I take it off at the top holder, then I can't seem to thread the blade in the hole, not enough room to look underneath, even bent a couple of blades trying to get it through the hole. So then I thought I'll try threading from the top down, then I can't seem to get the blade into the bottom holder.

Obviously I'm doing something wrong, because if it's that hard to thread blades, I'm sure people would quit scrolling. Should I get a Delta 654 or Dewalt 788 where the arm lifts up.

Thanks in advance & sorry for the long rant trying to explain,  John

[dgman]

Yeah, it's a tight fit and those adapter are a pain in the butt. A little patience and a lot of practice are required. You mite even have to remove the lower shrouds to gain better access to the lower blade holder.

hang in there and let us know how it's going.

[Iguanadon]

Welcome to the forum.  Always nice to see a new face.  The Dewalt would be a good choice if you're going to bite the bullet and buy a new saw.  There is an accessory you can buy for the Dewalt that keeps the arm up to make things even easier.  See below for link.  I've never tried it, but figured I'd mention it.

https://www.amazon.com/Scroll-Saw-Lifter-Dewalt-40-690/dp/B00QLKV3F4/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1498427024&sr=8-2-fkmr0&keywords=dw788+lift

[tuner]

A big part of scrolling for a lot of us is just the fun of doing. The saw is a tool, you do well to use the best you can afford. With practice and time you will solve your problems, but in this case a better tool will eliminate most  and increase fun. you may not be doing anything wrong you work with what you have....but there is a better way

 

[WayneMahler]

First off, welcome to the village. Great place to be and learn. When I say learn it is a little tough in the beginning but things do get better, I promise. Bottom feeding is a tough process when you don't have a lot of room on top. The best thing is to be patient as you learn. It gets better I promise. Some folks open the bottom up a little aid in this. I'm a top feeder but spent many years doing what you are going through. The whole process is about enjoying it and the education get along the way. The satisfaction comes from seeing the smiles on peoples faces. Best advice I can offer is patience and taking your time. Once you have gotten to the point you can up grade your equipment (saw) and continue to learn and grow  so take baby steps and you will be up and running in short time. 

[JOE_M]

You mention that it takes both style blades. Are you using pinless and have you tried using just a slightly larger drill bit? A bigger hole, if there's room, would give you more wiggle room.

And here's a technique that might help (I  haven'tused the dremel, don't know how much room you've got.)

Put the wood down on the table towards you, in front of the blade holder.

Drop the blade in the hole. It will bottom out on the table. 

Lightly hold the blade with a couple fingers and push the wood and blade back so the blade is under the holder. When it gets to where the hole is you will be able to push it through the rest of the way.

Then you connect it on top/bottom or bottom/top whichever your style is.

(Hope that makes sense. It does in my head, but then a lot of stuff sounds good in my head and then I open my mouth and get all sorts of weird looks.)

[NC Scroller]

I started with that same Dremel saw over 15 years ago and then switched to the Dewalt just for that reason.  No matter if you are  top or bottom feeding it does take time to develop a feel.  Practice, Practice and more Practice.

 

Welcome to SSV.

[Dan]

Welcome to The Village John. Use some scrap wood and drill a few different size holes. Then practice threading the blade in these holes. Find the smallest hole you are comfortable with and use that size drill bit. If the pattern is such that the area to cut is smaller than that drill bit you can either use a smaller bit and hope to get the blade threaded or alter the pattern to your liking. Either way patience and practice will get you there. 

[Falcon]

Might try dotting the hole on bottom with a black sharpie makes it easier to target the hole. More light will also help. Don't give up the gift you will make and the smile you will receive cannot be bought it is priceless. Hang in there!

[jollyred]

Welcome to the forum.  One thing you might try if using pin end blades is to grind off some of the pin to make it fit the hole better.  Don't take off too much or it won't stay in the holder.  Using plain end blades is a lot easier, and you have a wider selection of blades.  If all else fails, you could use a mirror to see the back of the wood when threading.

[johnnyo]

Thank you ever so much everyone for the welcome & for your replies & encouragement. bent 4 #2 blades today, all pinless. Tried several times both pushing the blade from the bottom & from the top with the same results. Finally I got one in, but took a long time.  So I have decided to look for a Delta 694/5 or a Dewalt 788. They apparently both have lift up arms. I have found a Dewalt 788 for $250. The man said it's at least 10 yrs old that he knows of. Has a bit of surface rust on the table, but said it works perfectly.

Sad part is I won't get it for a month if I decide to get it. It is in Ontario, & we will be going there July 10th, so I can get it then. So am I correct in assuming it will be a Type 1 ? would I go wrong with this saw?

Edited June 26, 2017 by johnnyo

[johnnyo]

4 hours ago, NC Scroller said:

I started with that same Dremel saw over 15 years ago and then switched to the Dewalt just for that reason.  No matter if you are  top or bottom feeding it does take time to develop a feel.  Practice, Practice and more Practice.

 

Welcome to SSV.

Thank you for the welcome.. This saw has been a very frustrating experience so far. I have gone to it, tried inserting blades more times than I've done with any other tool. I'm not new to woodworking, but am to scrolling & turning.. Will try to upgrade to a saw that is easier to change blades, or holes.

[johnnyo]

4 hours ago, Dan said:

Welcome to The Village John. Use some scrap wood and drill a few different size holes. Then practice threading the blade in these holes. Find the smallest hole you are comfortable with and use that size drill bit. If the pattern is such that the area to cut is smaller than that drill bit you can either use a smaller bit and hope to get the blade threaded or alter the pattern to your liking. Either way patience and practice will get you there. 

Thanks, Dan.. That is on my tomorrow's to do list..  I'm not much of a boozer, but that saw almost drove me to it today. lol..

[johnnyo]

5 hours ago, JOE_M said:

You mention that it takes both style blades. Are you using pinless and have you tried using just a slightly larger drill bit? A bigger hole, if there's room, would give you more wiggle room.

And here's a technique that might help (I  haven'tused the dremel, don't know how much room you've got.)

Put the wood down on the table towards you, in front of the blade holder.

Drop the blade in the hole. It will bottom out on the table. 

Lightly hold the blade with a couple fingers and push the wood and blade back so the blade is under the holder. When it gets to where the hole is you will be able to push it through the rest of the way.

Then you connect it on top/bottom or bottom/top whichever your style is.

(Hope that makes sense. It does in my head, but then a lot of stuff sounds good in my head and then I open my mouth and get all sorts of weird looks.)

To me it seems there is very little room. your suggestion makes sense. I will give it a try tomorrow.

John

[johnnyo]

5 hours ago, WayneMahler said:

First off, welcome to the village. Great place to be and learn. When I say learn it is a little tough in the beginning but things do get better, I promise. Bottom feeding is a tough process when you don't have a lot of room on top. The best thing is to be patient as you learn. It gets better I promise. Some folks open the bottom up a little aid in this. I'm a top feeder but spent many years doing what you are going through. The whole process is about enjoying it and the education get along the way. The satisfaction comes from seeing the smiles on peoples faces. Best advice I can offer is patience and taking your time. Once you have gotten to the point you can up grade your equipment (saw) and continue to learn and grow  so take baby steps and you will be up and running in short time. 

Thanks much.. with this saw I can see that top feeding would probably be best for me, unless I can upgrade to a saw where the top arm swings up, like Dewalt or Delta.  I will be looking for one.

[johnnyo]

6 hours ago, tuner said:

A big part of scrolling for a lot of us is just the fun of doing. The saw is a tool, you do well to use the best you can afford. With practice and time you will solve your problems, but in this case a better tool will eliminate most  and increase fun. you may not be doing anything wrong you work with what you have....but there is a better way

 

After struggling with this saw, I think there has to be a better, easier way. Will be looking to upgrade..

By the way we go to South Texas Feb. & mar.

John

[johnnyo]

8 hours ago, dgman said:

Yeah, it's a tight fit and those adapter are a pain in the butt. A little patience and a lot of practice are required. You mite even have to remove the lower shrouds to gain better access to the lower blade holder.

hang in there and let us know how it's going.

So far I'm finding it to be an impossible fit, especially with a bit bigger project & the hole is closer to center. The only way is to push the blade from the top, but then have a terrible time of putting the blade into the bottom holder.

[ike]

I have a dewalt 788 and I bottom feed , some times it is a little tricky getting the blade thru the weed hole . when I drill the hole I turn the wood over and re drill the hole from the oppsite side the top clamp is easier to fit the blade in than the bottom holder . this works best for me.

IKE

[Iguanadon]

7 hours ago, johnnyo said:

Thank you ever so much everyone for the welcome & for your replies & encouragement. bent 4 #2 blades today, all pinless. Tried several times both pushing the blade from the bottom & from the top with the same results. Finally I got one in, but took a long time.  So I have decided to look for a Delta 694/5 or a Dewalt 788. They apparently both have lift up arms. I have found a Dewalt 788 for $250. The man said it's at least 10 yrs old that he knows of. Has a bit of surface rust on the table, but said it works perfectly.

Sad part is I won't get it for a month if I decide to get it. It is in Ontario, & we will be going there July 10th, so I can get it then. So am I correct in assuming it will be a Type 1 ? would I go wrong with this saw?

It could be a Type 2, I have one from 2006.  You can ask the seller to check the plate on the motor and either tell you what it says or have him snap a picture of it for you.

[RangerJay]

My own first saw had a stationary arm ....  that saw is now retired ...... but having said that I did get used to it and cut a lot of great projects.

In addition to what has already been mentioned I found it helpful to round out the bottom entrance hole with an awl before trying to thread the blade.  And you didn't mention the thickness of your stock - trying to thread a blade through a tight hole in 1 inch stock is a lot tougher than trying to thread a blade through 1/8 or 1/4 inch stock.  Also - at least till you get the hang of it play with smaller projects  - they are much easier to handle on that type of saw rather than larger projects (i.e. ornaments over landscape scenes).  Finally, select relatively uncomplicated patterns - ones that allow you to use a larger bit for your holes - and ones that minimize the number of holes needed.  And just one more "finally" - work hard to keep your blade straight - if you get a bend in the blade it can be tough and sometimes impossible to thread - I keep a set of pliers beside the saw for just the reason - as the blade "ages" those pliers get good use.

Good luck.

 

Jay

Edited June 26, 2017 by RangerJay

[johnnyo]

4 hours ago, Iguanadon said:

It could be a Type 2, I have one from 2006.  You can ask the seller to check the plate on the motor and either tell you what it says or have him snap a picture of it for you.

 

[johnnyo]

5 hours ago, RangerJay said:

My own first saw had a stationary arm ....  that saw is now retired ...... but having said that I did get used to it and cut a lot of great projects.

In addition to what has already been mentioned I found it helpful to round out the bottom entrance hole with an awl before trying to thread the blade.  And you didn't mention the thickness of your stock - trying to thread a blade through a tight hole in 1 inch stock is a lot tougher than trying to thread a blade through 1/8 or 1/4 inch stock.  Also - at least till you get the hang of it play with smaller projects  - they are much easier to handle on that type of saw rather than larger projects (i.e. ornaments over landscape scenes).  Finally, select relatively uncomplicated patterns - ones that allow you to use a larger bit for your holes - and ones that minimize the number of holes needed.  And just one more "finally" - work hard to keep your blade straight - if you get a bend in the blade it can be tough and sometimes impossible to thread - I keep a set of pliers beside the saw for just the reason - as the blade "ages" those pliers get good use.

Good luck.

 

Jay

Thanks Jay. yes I am using 3/4" stock. Trying to make a collapsible bowl which requires thicker stock. And of course the cut starts in the middle of the bowl, so the drill hole should be relatively small, not much bigger than the blade I think. As mentioned in another reply I have found a Dewalt 788, but I won't have it till mid July, but am anxious to start sooner. For some reason I seem to be infatuated with collapsible bowls & baskets, & would like to leave some for my 4 children & nieces as gifts & remembrances after I depart this world. lol.. I want to do other scrolling too, but those 2 really got my attention.  Thanks for the pliers tip, will have to make that a part of my arsenal by the saw..

John

[Iguanadon]

3 hours ago, johnnyo said:

 

On the exterior of the motor there is a plate that tells what year it was made and whether it's a Type 1 or Type 2.  If he can send you a picture of that or just tell you what it says, you'll know for sure, but that looks like a type 2.

[johnnyo]

2 hours ago, Iguanadon said:

On the exterior of the motor there is a plate that tells what year it was made and whether it's a Type 1 or Type 2.  If he can send you a picture of that or just tell you what it says, you'll know for sure, but that looks like a type 2.

OK, I found a Type 1 near there also, says used very little, like new, $50 more so I think I'll go for that one. still will have to order a locking arm & a light for it.. Hope it will make threading blades easier.. attached are pictures of the Type 1. I can't see what year this one was made, but looks in real nice condition.

John

Edited June 26, 2017 by johnnyo

[CharleyL]

For a light, my saw came with the light from DeWalt. It was terrible for scrolling because it was more of a spot light than a flood light and got very hot. It also cast blade shadows, making it difficult to find the pattern line through the shadows sometimes. I replaced that light with two Halogen drafting board lights, one on each side of the blade. This mostly solved the shadow problems, but they got very hot and sunburned my hands. I also burned my face on them more than once.

I'm now using what I feel is the ultimate solution to lighting for my scroll saw, and they were way cheaper than anything that I had tried before. Lowes carries these and they are less than $20 each.  https://www.lowes.com/pd/Style-Selections-13-25-in-Adjustable-Stainless-Steel-LED-Clip-On-Clip-Desk-Lamp-with-Metal-Shade/1000003084      I made a bracket that attaches to the upper arm of my DeWalt 788 that allowed me to mount one of these lights to each side of the upper arm of my saw. These lights don't get hot. They provide a very bright and even white light, and having one on each side of the blade angled down at about 45 degrees completely eliminates the blade and moving upper blade grip shadows, making it much easier to follow the pattern lines. Here is the link to my first post about these lights complete with pictures. The bracket is just two easy to make pieces, made from 1/16 and 1/8" aluminum plus two bolts and nuts,that wraps around the upper arm of the saw. No modifications to the saw are necessary, but you will need to remove the spring clamps on the base of the lamps. The lights will completely remove the blade shadows, provide very bright and even white light, and they don't burn my hands or face, even if I spend the whole day scrolling under them. To me, they have been the perfect solution to lighting on my DeWalt 788 scroll saw. 

Charley