Hawk BM26 Review Update - by Iggy

[stoney]

13 hours ago, hotshot said:

I suspect manufacturing those would be very difficult, and keeping with "American Made" might make sourcing those difficult.  Well I thought "I know Bushton is not making the motors, and I seriously doubt those are American made . . .",  so, I got on my back under the saw to see who made the motor, and . . . Yes, it is American made by "Bison Gear and Engineering Corp."  Wow and Kudos to Bushton on keeping the "Made in America" message squeaky clean.  So given the no chinks in the armor, I don't think they would use the overseas sourcing.

Some time back, I did some extensive research, called "many" manufacturers, looking for the knurled knobs with the rotating ends (like Hegner but intended to use on EX), and many did have "Swivel Heads", but that is not the same thing, and will not for for our application.

But to your point, if Bushton gave us the option of  M6 x 1 and shipped without the knob, then we could easily handle the sourcing for ourselves and have the best of both worlds.

I don't know Randy but I would suspect Bushton would be forgiven for using a better designed product for their blade clamp screws even if they had to import them.    Don't get me wrong I am all for Made in USA products but it isn't feasible in all situations.   Very few consumer products have 100% american made content anymore. JMHO     

[Rolf]

The standard Hawk clamps work fine for me I don't get any hockey stick blades or slippage. Use the stock ones for a while you can always tinker if you have problems.

Edited July 24, 2017 by Rolf

[DME72]

does the hockey stick blade mean i am using too much tension or tightening the blade clamps too tight? tension is right at 12 like the manual says. the sticker on the saw says different. i called bushton and she said to use what it says in the manual as a guideline. my thought is i am used to the dewalt blade clamps and i am putting too much torque on the clamps.

 

doug

[hawkeye10]

1 hour ago, DME72 said:

does the hockey stick blade mean i am using too much tension or tightening the blade clamps too tight? tension is right at 12 like the manual says. the sticker on the saw says different. i called bushton and she said to use what it says in the manual as a guideline. my thought is i am used to the dewalt blade clamps and i am putting too much torque on the clamps.

 

doug

I was getting hockey sticks with my Excaliber and it was because I was tightening the clamps to tight. Hotshot straighten me out on that. I am going to have to buy another upper clamp body because of it. I am like a lot of men if a little is good a whole lot is even better. ""WRONG""

[hotshot]

On 7/24/2017 at 3:32 PM, DME72 said:

does the hockey stick blade mean i am using too much tension or tightening the blade clamps too tight? tension is right at 12 like the manual says. the sticker on the saw says different. i called bushton and she said to use what it says in the manual as a guideline. my thought is i am used to the dewalt blade clamps and i am putting too much torque on the clamps.

doug

Which size and type blades are you using?  Top or bottom clamp or both?   If you are getting the Hockey stick effect, I don't think too much tension is your issue.  When you "pluck it", you should get a tone somewhat close to that of your 788.  If you are getting those with straight blades >= #3 and every time, your probably seeing something different from me.  On my other saws, I've seen this when the set screw had worked it's way into the clamp.  That set screw must extend somewhat into the gap in the clamp.  I'll post again in a bit to show you how to tell if you bottom clamp set screw is set correctly.  That might be your issue.

On your Dewalt, the end could rotate, so as the blade started to get tight, the blade and clamp knob tip would remain stationary relative to each other, while the shaft continues to turn and go that last little bit.  With the BM, since the tip doesn't rotate, if it grabs the blade, it will apply a rotation torque, as the opposite side of the clamp would try to resist that rotation as it is held against the stationary set screw.  I'm thinking smaller spirals and Jewelers would be especially problematic.  The HockeyStick effect isn't my main motivation for trying to improve the knob.  I'm more concerned with the torque required to get an acceptable hold. Also, if for some reason you miss your blade, then that rotational torque would now be "trying to turn" that set screw.

Anyway, I think the guy before be got frustrated with the clamps as there is evidence he was also "working" on the issue.  But what he didn't catch was that his set screw was not set correctly on the bottom clamp, which gives me the opportunity to show you a bad setting, versus a new setting.

 

Edited July 25, 2017 by hotshot

[DME72]

hotshot,

i am using olsen 2/0R blades.  i got this saw because i know my type1 dewalt will not last forever. now #2 and #5 work really well. 2/0 blades get all bent up on the top,yes i bottom feed. lately i have cut a bunch of puzzles with #5 and it is sweet cutting.try and cut something else  with a 2/0 after the 5th cut or so the end is bent up and wont feed thru the hole in the wood. i suspect i am heavy handed and putting too much tension on the blade holders causing them to bend the blade. how often do the hawk blade clamps have to be cleaned up with sandpaper? 

doug

[stoney]

I have used blade clamp screws with and without the rotating end and firmly believe the rotating end is a much better design especially for smaller blades that are more susceptible to distortion from the rotation at the end of the screw.

Also I hate to defend Hegner blade clamps (because I consider them antiquated) but you would be very hard pressed to bend one no matter how hard you tightened the screw.   In fact you can actually squeeze the end of  a small blade to the point of making it more susceptible to breaking right at the clamp.   Just wondering why other makes don't use a stronger material for their blade clamps.       

Edited July 24, 2017 by stoney

[DME72]

i dont know if anyone knows this but the rotating thumbscrew clamps like the ex and dewalt have looks like they would be easy to make if you had the right tools. the rotating part pulls right out and is only held in place by a small groove with an o ring for some friction to keep it from falling out. i know that seyco sells the kit to refurbish your ex/ dewalt clamps for $6-8 if memory is correct. if somebody on here is a good machinist they could probably modify the bushton t knob clamps to be rotating like the ex style clamps, although i dont know what type of steel is used on them or how long it would take to do. or if bushton would sell 6mmx1 threaded blade clamps bodies you could use the clamps from a ex/dewalt saw. just a thought.

doug

[hotshot]

2 hours ago, DME72 said:

....i am using olsen 2/0R blades.  

Ok, I had hoped you were not using 2/0 or smaller, and that your problem was something else.  I'm agree with Stoney on his opinion, and maybe we get a shot at a different clamp knob to prove or disprove that theory.

 

 

Edited July 25, 2017 by hotshot

[hotshot]

Getting way off topic, I'll create a top level post to dive into what can go wrong with the bottom clamp and set screw.

Edited July 25, 2017 by hotshot

[DME72]

the setscrews are locktite in the clamp body so they should not move unless someone messed with it. if they were not locktite in everytime you tighten the knob it would back it out a small amount and then the two blade holders would not be set true to one another.

doug

[hotshot]

18 hours ago, tonylumps said:

.....Well to make a long story short I did drill a socket head screw out to except a rotating head from another thumb clamp.

Man, I totally missed this post . . . but that is freaking awesome!!!!!!  Seems like the Hawk Thumbscrew modification would be just as doable.

I would have to find a machinist to do this for me though as I don't have anything that accurate.  My chances are probably better on drilling/tapping, but I like this concept a lot.

Edited July 25, 2017 by hotshot

[Terry Jay]

Hotshot:

In a conversation with Ray at Seyco several years ago he mentioned his machinist making the tips and screws.  That may be a source for you.  

[Rolf]

I have never had to sand, adjust or clean any of my Hawk clamps. I also never clean the ends of my blades. 

I did have some problems with the original clamps that came with my G4 in 2005. They were a multi piece assembly with two halves held together with a couple of socket head screws. Because I was heavy handed back then I stripped out those screws by over tightening the clamps. I fixed them by putting in heli coils. The newer, current clamps are much simpler and I have not managed to destroy any.  The newer and simpler version is on the left.  The one on the right is the original. I will take one apart to show how it is made. It has two hard metal blocks that are pressed together to hold the blade, no  rotation at the blade.

[hotshot]

On 7/24/2017 at 3:32 PM, DME72 said:

. . . . i called bushton and she said to use what it says in the manual as a guideline. 

Hey, acknowledging that you were dead right on this . . . 

This one "bit me in the behind" as the sticker they put on the saw is for the G4/220.  I assumed they were still using those stickers because they were still relevant.  The manual does have the corrected (and much different) settings.  I missed this because I passed over it in the manual, assuming the  correct info would be on the easy accessible sticker on the saw.  Yep, kept doubting myself because I couldn't get the settings indicated on the sticker to work for the #2/0 blades.  When I talk to Bushton next, I'll suggest that the stickers are so far off that they do more harm than good.  If the stickers have bad information, there is no benefit that I can think of to have them on the saw.

Edited July 25, 2017 by hotshot

[DME72]

when i called last week and talked to them they said the stickers are left over from RBI. you would think that because they are not correct they would not use them. manual also says that is a general starting point for the tension and may need to be adjusted some. with all that said it is a learning experience to go from a 788 to a hawk. i finally got the blade change down pretty good but still struggle with bending the 2/0 blades. i am just going to see how much less i can tighten the clamps without the blade slipping or pop out.have not had as many pop out as i have hockey stick ends. maybe i am just afraid the blade will pop out if i under tighten it.

doug

[hotshot]

If I could suggest one thing to Bushton that might really help, it would be that "On a premium saw, your customer expect attention to detail."  The sticker thing is not important, and just wasted a little of my time, which is pretty normal for learning a new tool, so moving on.  If this is the worse thing about the saw, then the BM will reign as the best saw ever.

Edited July 26, 2017 by hotshot

[jbrowning]

Have you received the new saw yet Iggy?

[Iguanadon]

36 minutes ago, jbrowning said:

Have you received the new saw yet Iggy?

Funny you should ask... I just received an email from UPS letting me know it's on the way and will arrive tomorrow.

[jbrowning]

ALRIGHT!!!!!! You must be living right, cause you get to have two Christmas' in July.

 

[rjweb]

That's good news, We will all be waiting to hear that this saw is excellent. got my fingers and toes crossed, RJ

[Iguanadon]

Good news... replacement saw just arrived and I swapped the legs to the new one and cranked it up and so far, so good.  Much smoother.  I'll slowly play with it and get familiar with it over the next couple of days.  It looks as though my farmers market will be rainy this Saturday so I won't go.  That'll give me some more time to cut.  

[rjweb]

Glad to see things are working out, RJ

[Scrappile]

Please keep us posted.  Hope this time things are good to go.

[Rolf]

Yea !