Hawk BM26 - Replacement Received

[Iguanadon]

Quick update... the replacement saw arrived yesterday afternoon.  I got it setup and have been cutting kids puzzles out of pine this morning to get comfortable with it.  It's much better although there is still some vibration, but I don't know what is normal for Hawk's.  

The one very good thing is, no blades breaking.  The first saw, I snapped 5 blades in an hour and so far I haven't had one break and I'm using #3 blades.  

I've emailed Nilus at Bushton Manufacturing thanking him for getting me the replacement and I have the first one boxed up and ready for UPS to pick up this afternoon.  

I'll continue testing, playing and tweaking and will provide a full review once I swap out a few dozen blades, make interior cuts and cut a couple dozen of my real puzzles out of poplar as a thorough test.  Looks like my farmers market will be a rain-out tomorrow, so I'll get some extra cutting time.

Enjoy the weekend everyone,

Iggy

[jbrowning]

Glad to you hear received the new saw and it is working better than the first one. Can't wait to read your reviews when you get them posted.

 

 

[hotshot]

1 hour ago, Iguanadon said:

.... there is still some vibration......

Iggy

Iggy, how does this compare to your 788?  My 788 is a bit smoother, but the vibration is manageable, so I'm happy.  Where is your harmonic range now (mine is at 6 and 7), but fairly smooth outside that range.  Will it pass the nickel test with the saw turned all the way up?

So glad you got this resolved.  I know you do a different kind of work than me, but will still be interesting to see how this works for you.  I don't have any issues with the blades sizes you normally use.  I've been top feeding for years, but have switched to bottom feeding on the Hawk because it is just less hassle, even for a seasoned top feeder.  That move has made the saw much more enjoyable for me.  After I get a little time under my belt, I will force myself back into the top feeding mode until I can do it without the struggle.

[Denny Knappen]

Wish you the best on the new saw.

[Iguanadon]

20 minutes ago, hotshot said:

Iggy, how does this compare to your 788?  My 788 is a bit smoother, but the vibration is manageable, so I'm happy.  Where is your harmonic range now (mine is at 6 and 7), but fairly smooth outside that range.  Will it pass the nickel test with the saw turned all the way up?

So glad you got this resolved.  I know you do a different kind of work than me, but will still be interesting to see how this works for you.  I don't have any issues with the blades sizes you normally use.  I've been top feeding for years, but have switched to bottom feeding on the Hawk because it is just less hassle, even for a seasoned top feeder.  That move has made the saw much more enjoyable for me.  After I get a little time under my belt, I will force myself back into the top feeding mode until I can do it without the struggle.

Hey Hotshot

My 788 was perfectly smooth, zero vibration, and the Hawk vibrates noticeably.  I'm playing with speeds and found a couple of worse speeds, but no speed is perfectly smooth.  At full speed it's pretty jumpy.  I may try loosening some of the mounting bolts of various pieces and see if they simply need to re-align and "settle".

The legs are rock solid on the floor and I'm on a concrete slab, just so you can mentally eliminate those as potential issues.  I had leg extenders on the back legs because I like a tilt, but I removed those so that I could eliminate them as the problem.

With the first saw I wasn't even able to cut without snapping blades, so this is definitely an improvement, and I really hope I can get rid of the vibration because I love how the saw cuts so far.  

[hotshot]

19 minutes ago, Iguanadon said:

My 788 was perfectly smooth, zero vibration, and the Hawk vibrates noticeably.  

I'm thinking there is a lot more moving mass on the Hawk, so I don't know it will ever be as smooth as the 788/EX, but mine is good enough for me, and is probably less vibration  than the Hegner which is also moving a lot of mass.

-----Randy

Edited July 28, 2017 by hotshot

[Iguanadon]

8 minutes ago, hotshot said:

I'm thinking there is a lot more moving mass on the Hawk, so I don't know it will ever be as smooth as the 788/EX, but mine is good enough for me, and is probably less vibration  than the Hegner which is also moving a lot of mass.

-----Randy

You got me to go out and tinker with it... I loosened the 6 bolts underneath that hold the main arms assembly after loosening the pitman arm from the lower arm and I simply jiggled everything and let them "re-align" and then tightened everything back... It actually seems to have helped.  I can now run it at full speed and it's smoother.  I'll put it to a full test tomorrow.  I really like the fact that this machine has far fewer pivot points, bearings, etc.  A lot less to wear out and go bad.  I truly want to fall in love with this saw and use it for years to come.

[hotshot]

14 minutes ago, Iguanadon said:

........I can now run it at full speed and it's smoother........

 That is awesome news!!!!  You will have to see if it will pass the Nickel test.

Edited July 28, 2017 by hotshot

[kmmcrafts]

Both my Hawks are fairly smooth running and are manageable.. but neither saw is as smooth as my DeWalt.. also neither saw cuts as aggressive or as fast as the Dewalt.. That said.. hard to compare the older saws that I have to the new BM series.. but I do wonder what that comparison is between the older Hawks and the New one.

My 220VS is from 1993 and my 226 Ultra is from 1999 according to who I had on the phone from Bushton,, so they are quite older.. The 226 was still new in the box so no wear and tear before I got it..

[hotshot]

44 minutes ago, Iguanadon said:

..... loosening the pitman arm from the lower arm .....

Ok, that threw me for a sec, but I see what you did, I might give that a try.

Edited July 28, 2017 by hotshot

[Iguanadon]

10 minutes ago, hotshot said:

Ok, that threw me for a sec, but I see what you did, I might give that a try.

After doing it, I was thinking I'd have preferred just loosening the 6 bolts underneath holding the main arm assembly only and not the pitman arm... let the main arm assembly "align" with the pitman.  If that makes sense.

[Iguanadon]

1 hour ago, hotshot said:

 That is awesome news!!!!  You will have to see if it will pass the Nickel test.

Nickel test PASSED!  And a snapshot of the "adjustment" I made to the main arm assembly, you can see the saw dust line of where it was before I realigned it.

At least now I know I can tweak things if/when necessary.

 

[hotshot]

Yes, I think you are right about the pitman arm.  But I noticed something interesting during this exercise.  It looks like Bushton may have marked the "Factory Location" of the assembly with a black marker.  The marks line up with how I received my saw (which is comforting).  Of Course, it could have been the prior owner also, so that would be less comforting.

Anyway the unit is still loose as I scour the manual trying to determine how they line up the assembly with the pitman arm.  If I move the assembly, it stays (not springing into any natural position.  So it's not obvious, other than the lines drawn on the table, where the assembly should go.

If the Bushton folks didn't put that mark there, they probably should.  This way the owner could quickly glance and see if something moved during shipment.

 

Edited July 28, 2017 by hotshot

[hotshot]

Shees, I read the manual, it said "Remove" the bolt holding the pitman arm to the lower arm.  I thought, hmmm, wonder how long it would take me to get that all back together.  Well, I expected a washer between the arm and the pitman, but there were a couple of "bearings" recessed into the arms.  Kinda cool.  But these bearing hold the arm tight between them, so I remove the bearing, and let the arm go to it's "natural position" to see if it was evenly spaced in the housing.  After some experimentation, I ended up on the same marks as the saw was when I started.  Then, it took a long time to get that crazy bolt lined up perfect enough to make it back through the arm and bearings.  

Vibration is about the same, but I do know how to change out the bearing now.  They were a little "gritty", so I put some oil on them, and worked them until they turned more freely.

Where were these bearing made?  It's not a big deal to me, but I thought is was interesting.  I looked and evidently this size is rare, so I'm sure there is not a U.S. source.  (.5" x 1" x 11/32").

 

 

 

There was something a little disturbing that happened and I'm not sure what to think about it.  The rear two nuts seemed really tight, and maybe a little "not straight".  I'm thinking "cross threaded."  They came out, but when I put them back in and started tightening them, I could feel them "not tighten" up.  Freaking Aluminum!!!  Probably Karma biting my butt for pointing out the "Made in China" bearings. I stopped before I completely stripped them . . . I think.  The others are tight enough, and are holding fine, but it was a little disconcerting.  Last thing I want to be doing is taking the whole thing to a machine shop to drill out and re-tap the holes.

The saw is running as smooth as before. 

 

Edited July 29, 2017 by hotshot

[amazingkevin]

7 hours ago, Iguanadon said:

Quick update... the replacement saw arrived yesterday afternoon.  I got it setup and have been cutting kids puzzles out of pine this morning to get comfortable with it.  It's much better although there is still some vibration, but I don't know what is normal for Hawk's.  

The one very good thing is, no blades breaking.  The first saw, I snapped 5 blades in an hour and so far I haven't had one break and I'm using #3 blades.  

I've emailed Nilus at Bushton Manufacturing thanking him for getting me the replacement and I have the first one boxed up and ready for UPS to pick up this afternoon.  

I'll continue testing, playing and tweaking and will provide a full review once I swap out a few dozen blades, make interior cuts and cut a couple dozen of my real puzzles out of poplar as a thorough test.  Looks like my farmers market will be a rain-out tomorrow, so I'll get some extra cutting time.

Enjoy the weekend everyone,

Iggy

Iggy ,I'd like to see your saw dust pile one day!

Edited July 29, 2017 by amazingkevin

[stoney]

Randy, finding Chinese bearings on your Hawk just confirms what I suspected and I am not surprised. Their saws do not contain 100% Made in USA content.    This tells me for sure they should not have a problem using imported rotating insert thumb screws for their blade clamps which are a better product in my humble opinion.  

Edited July 29, 2017 by stoney

[hotshot]

28 minutes ago, stoney said:

.......  This tells me for sure they should not have a problem using imported rotating insert thumb screws for their blade clamps which are a better product in my humble opinion.  ....

Stoney, I hope you are right, and I had that same thought.  A few days ago I emailed and asked Nilus about making me some clamps drilled with #8 instead of the #7 bit to fit the m6x1.  Haven't heard back, but, he hasn't said no yet.  It would be nice if they would sell the better thumbscrew, but really, if they would just offer the clamps drilled and tapped for the M6x1, I would be happy.

Since the existing clamp works for most users, I'm not sure how far they will go to accommodate me.  Iggy is using the bigger blades, so he can probably get by with what he has just fine.  I guess we will know if he has any blade slippage.  It would, I think, make a difference for Doug and myself.

Edited July 29, 2017 by hotshot

[DME72]

in theory you would really only need the top clamp modified for the swivel if you bottom feed like me. i have really been thinking about buying a few extra  clamp knobs from bushton and ordering the clamp renewal kit from seyco for about $7. the end of the swivel for the EX clamp is a bit smaller than 1/4 inch about .175 or so. i would like to try and make one from a 1/4-20 clamp and the inserts from seyco, even though they are a hair smaller i really think they would work good. just have to find a way to clamp the knob so it will not move while i drill it out. should only need a small center drill and correct size drill bit. this will be a test just to see if it works when i get it done. maybe next week.

doug

[Robert H. Bigart]

I found that 3 legs work better than 4 legs on a concrete floor  {It stopped all the vibration}

 

Bob

[Iguanadon]

6 hours ago, Robert H. Bigart said:

I found that 3 legs work better than 4 legs on a concrete floor  {It stopped all the vibration}

 

Bob

Hi Bob... Did you build your own stand or modify the existing one somehow?

[SCROLLSAW703]

glad to hear ya finally got your issues resolved, Iggy. Haven't heard from ya lately & been wonderin' aboutcha. I've been busy with mom the last week, haven't even been to the shop. I've been "designin" a project for a customer, & I finally got her approval on it last night, so now I can finally get back in the shop. mom is situated in swing bed here after her surgery, so now it's shop time. Finally. It has been a long time comin'! 
Your vibration could be several things. Mine vibrated a little bit when it was brand new, but after usin' it awhile, the vibration left me. I've got mine on casters, & on a wood floor. I didn't move anything, I just let it go thru a break in period, so to speak, & mine will pass the nickel test at every speed. I don't get mine much above 3 very often. I cut to much detail in half inch or better hardwood, but I use blades as small as #0/3, too. That's a perty small blade. I use up to a #7 at times as well, & I don't break blades, or bend the tops. I think I've got mine perty well tuned. It'll cut as aggressive as you want it to by adjusting the bottom arm adjustment w/the allen wrench with the saw. Enjoy your new investment, brother. Anything I can help ya with, just call. keep in touch.

[heppnerguy]

On 7/29/2017 at 5:31 AM, Iguanadon said:

Hi Bob... Did you build your own stand or modify the existing one somehow?

I am pretty sure that the Hawk has a three legged stand and has for some time. They used to be an option, I believe. I would suggest you give them a call and ask about the three legged stand.

Dick

heppnerguy

[Rolf]

I never saw a three legged Hawk. Mine sits on an uneven  concrete  floor. I don't move my saw often but when I do and it is not sitting solid I just nudge the legs a bit until it settles in.

They do have a special leg set to accommodate a wheel chair. 

Randy where are these bolts into the aluminum that concern you? 

One reason that the Hawk is not as aggressive is it has much less front back blade motion, especially if you adjust it out. 

[Robert H. Bigart]

I mounted the saw on 4 wheel 16 x 30 push cart and removed the casters then put on a plywood bottom and placed 2 solid casters on the front and 1 swivel caster on the back.

[rjweb]

Iggy,

Any good news on your hawk, is the replacement ok, RJ