Hawk 226 Ultra Tension Question

[kmmcrafts]

While I have had my Hawk Ultra 226 since May.. I really haven't had that many opportunities to "really" use it much.. I've been using the 220VS or the DeWalt due to being somewhat rushed to get a order done etc..

I've had blade breakage issues with it.. and pretty sure it was just user error.. Blades are breaking in the middle of the wood..typically down near the project I'm cutting.. and a few times it's been an inch or so from the top.. but most times it's a inch or so near the bottom.. I been looking at the ends of the blades for marks of the clamps slipping.. Don't notice anything there.. I really think my tension is too tight... BUT... If I loosen it much at all the saw clatters as if the blade is too loose.. I don't get it.. 

So in playing around with this I've also noticed that the distance has changed between the lower arm and the upper arm... as the way it was set up ( saw was new in the box when I got it ) out of the box.. I had to lift up the upper arm to get the blade in and underneath that stop pin in the clamp.. now the blade is right at the correct height to just lower the arm and tighten the thumb screw.. I am assuming the lock-nut on that rod at the back of the saw has been spinning.. I also assume that is what the nut is for?  Maybe its not? Maybe I need to give it some slack.. My old 220VS has a lot of slack in that and I have to lift up the arm to get the blade in as well much like the 226 was set up when I first got it..

Anyway, I am wondering if that lock nut on that rod is for adjusting this.. or is that the cause of my blades breaking.. I looked in my manual and I didn't see anything pertaining to that lock nut.. Only thing I see in it as far as tension was to look at the cam lever and set it at 11- 1 pm clock position.. nothing is mentioned about that rod or the lock nut.. 

I'm kind of wondering if I need to loosen this lock nut down out of the way and then loosen the tension from the blade.. I think it's too tight but like I said.. getting noise when i loosen it...maybe the noise is something to do with that lock nut.. Going to go out in a bit and give it a try.. but still wondering if the lock nut is for adjusting the distance between the arms.. I know it's much nicer cutting when the arms are right at the right distance apart so the blade just slips into position..

 

Thanks for any comments or suggestions..     

     

[Oldmansbike]

On mine when I had the same trouble as you are having I discovered that the round barrel looking thing that fits into the lower arm when you tighten the rear tension rod  had worked its way up the rod and was creating too much tension. Every time a blade broke or I let go of the upper arm to fast the round thing would get turned sideways and I would reach around and straighten it up. Every time I did this I was turning it up and creating more tension. So I turned it back down a few turns and it's been great since then that was about a year ago. I hope I explained this right I am not very good at explaining things. It would be easier to show you.

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Kevin it is hard to explain in words sometimes but I will try. That nut on the bottom of that rod that sits  under the bottom arm should not move or never move. It is a nylon insert in the nut to keep it from spinning off. The rod stays the same length. The adjustment is in the tension lever that controls that wedge shape device. You turn that to match the size of the blade. The top arm should be at a distance from the table so that when lowered the blade just gets pushed into the blade holder. The blade should just touch the top of the blade holder block and the back of the blade is against the pin. This should be automatic when set up right. Now the tension is set when the lever of the front tensioner is pushed. This now takes out the slack of the rod in the back. I basically always use #5 blades so I do not fuss with that back tension lever. If I happen to use a larger blade I will cut the tip of the blade so that it fits in the setup for the #5 blade and saw away. 

 

Now as I mentioned on that noise thread, sometimes that back lever works its way against the top arm and scrapes as it goes up and down and make a rattling noise. I just center the lever and keep an eye for it. I can tell that noise right away. I have also put a piece of rubber under that lever because some times it may slam against the arm as it comes down and that usually happens when I use larger blades because I did not reset that lever. If you set up the arm as I said you will not break blades because of too much tension. May break them for poor sawing techniques. Not sure if this makes sense or helps. Good luck. I love my 220 and 226

[kmmcrafts]

2 hours ago, Oldmansbike said:

On mine when I had the same trouble as you are having I discovered that the round barrel looking thing that fits into the lower arm when you tighten the rear tension rod  had worked its way up the rod and was creating too much tension. Every time a blade broke or I let go of the upper arm to fast the round thing would get turned sideways and I would reach around and straighten it up. Every time I did this I was turning it up and creating more tension. So I turned it back down a few turns and it's been great since then that was about a year ago. I hope I explained this right I am not very good at explaining things. It would be easier to show you.

I know what you are talking about.. but sadly I don't think this is the issue i am having.. I've done some more checking one thing at a time.. sooner or later I suppose I will figure it all out.. I have noticed that I don't seem to be breaking the blades nearly as bad when running the saw at slower speeds.. 

 

[kmmcrafts]

9 minutes ago, JTTHECLOCKMAN said:

Kevin it is hard to explain in words sometimes but I will try. That nut on the bottom of that rod that sits  under the bottom arm should not move or never move. It is a nylon insert in the nut to keep it from spinning off. The rod stays the same length. The adjustment is in the tension lever that controls that wedge shape device. You turn that to match the size of the blade. The top arm should be at a distance from the table so that when lowered the blade just gets pushed into the blade holder. The blade should just touch the top of the blade holder block and the back of the blade is against the pin. This should be automatic when set up right. Now the tension is set when the lever of the front tensioner is pushed. This now takes out the slack of the rod in the back. I basically always use #5 blades so I do not fuss with that back tension lever. If I happen to use a larger blade I will cut the tip of the blade so that it fits in the setup for the #5 blade and saw away. 

 

Now as I mentioned on that noise thread, sometimes that back lever works its way against the top arm and scrapes as it goes up and down and make a rattling noise. I just center the lever and keep an eye for it. I can tell that noise right away. I have also put a piece of rubber under that lever because some times it may slam against the arm as it comes down and that usually happens when I use larger blades because I did not reset that lever. If you set up the arm as I said you will not break blades because of too much tension. May break them for poor sawing techniques. Not sure if this makes sense or helps. Good luck. I love my 220 and 226

Maybe all this time.. I've been installing the blade wrong..  I was under the impression that the top arm comes down and you insert the blade to that back of the blade chuck and lower the arm until the top of the blade hits a little pin or blade stop thing.. but my upper arm on either saw will lower down farther than where that pin is.. 

But the way you explained it... it sounds like I am to put the back of the blade up against that pin.. that I had been using as a blade stop?? I will check that out tomorrow morning.. Because I had been installing the blade in my 220 this way too.. and at one point had a lot of blade breakage etc.. as well.. but on that saw.. most times I can run it until the blade is about dull anyway.. Though I don't recall ever breaking any blades on my dewalt.. dull or otherwise.. pretty sure it's user error...  

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

1 hour ago, kmmcrafts said:

Maybe all this time.. I've been installing the blade wrong..  I was under the impression that the top arm comes down and you insert the blade to that back of the blade chuck and lower the arm until the top of the blade hits a little pin or blade stop thing.. but my upper arm on either saw will lower down farther than where that pin is.. 

But the way you explained it... it sounds like I am to put the back of the blade up against that pin.. that I had been using as a blade stop?? I will check that out tomorrow morning.. Because I had been installing the blade in my 220 this way too.. and at one point had a lot of blade breakage etc.. as well.. but on that saw.. most times I can run it until the blade is about dull anyway.. Though I don't recall ever breaking any blades on my dewalt.. dull or otherwise.. pretty sure it's user error...  

There should be 2 allen screws on the side of that top block. The bottom one is the blade holder and that one gets set to hold the blade with the thumb screw. The one on top is the one where the top of the blade hits the bottom of that screw. You can not put any more blade in if you hit that screw. That is why you set that back lever so that the blade sits in the same distance every time. If you have more blade showing than that you need to adjust that back lever. I ignore all those clock numbers and just tighten enough to have that bottom of that top screw even with the top of my blade when that arm is pushed down. If you put the blade in the bottom holder with it bottoming out this setup should be the same every time. To me this blade holding system is the easiest to use of all scrollsaws. 

Edited August 27, 2017 by JTTHECLOCKMAN

[Oldmansbike]

JT explained it better than I did. I put the blade in the top holder against the stops tightened the thumb screw then flipped over the front tension lever. Then go to the rear tension lever  release it and screw it up or down until you get the correct tension on the blade. Like JT said ignore the clock numbers.

[kmmcrafts]

Okay, I was inserting the blade correct.. after reading JT's second post.. However I do need to adjust that rear rod and tension lever.. I had been doing it right I believe.. but at some point something changed back there at that rod and changed the length of that rod as well as my tension.. I am guessing now after reading that really nothing changed other that either the wedge or that bottom barrel thing got mis-aligned and then I started fooling with the tension and rod length.. Now I need to go out and adjust it as it should be.. and see if my blades keep breaking still.   

[Rockytime]

I have an old Hawk. It is a 16" VS. I have not looked up the schematic in a long while so don't remember what vintage it is. Unfortunately It does not have the tension release at the front so have to rely on the rear lever. When scrolling there is very little vibration but every so often the threaded rod would vibrate slightly loose requiring me to readjust and continue cutting. When I purchased the saw used the tension lever was missing and a large knob replaced the lever. Apparently the previous owner had the same problem. I did not know better not having seen a Hawk before, only reading about them. When I looked up the parts diagram I ordered the proper parts. I'd like a new Hawk but at my age I'd probably be dead before it arrived. Aside from that little problem which I fixed the saw is flawless. Excellent $200 investment. A little brass knurled screw keeps everything nicely in place.

[SCROLLSAW703]

km, your tension adjustment lever should be pointed towards you, or the front of the saw, however you want to look at, it at all times. To adjust tension, you really don't need to flip your blue lever. Once you get your blade in place, you can adjust the tension by turning the adjustment rod at the back of the saw. Flip your cam lock over at the nose of the top arm & check your tension. If it isn't enough, flip it back, & add another twist on your adjustment rod. That's how I've done it, & leave the lever alone. 

A piece of advice. Try to make sure your blade is centered in that bottom blade holder. Your chances of breakin' blades are greater if it isn't. Also, on the underneath side of the top arm, right under the cam lock, there is a 3/32" allen screw. It needs to be tightened against the cam til you can just start to feel resistance. That little screw needs to tightened every few months to keep resistance against the cam in order for it to keep the blade tight. Make sure the little nylon washer under the blue lever stays clean & dry, or your tension will back off. 

Once you get your bottom blade holder in place, make sure the keepers will hold it, but at the same time, let the blade holder move. If not, loosen them up just a touch. When you insert your blade in the top holder, make sure, as mentioned, it's at the back of the blade holder & push it up til you feel it stop. Your blade is in place. Once you get the tension set, it will hold it. These are some feathers I cut with mine using a #0 blade. A butterfly from beetle kill pine, & a small Crucifix from oak. The feathers are 3/16" thick, & scrap wood glued together, & run thru the planer to 3/16". All cut with my BM.

Edited August 29, 2017 by SCROLLSAW703

[Oldmansbike]

KM did you ever get it figured out?

[kmmcrafts]

I haven't actually had a chance to run it this week.. I did a lot of tuning it etc on Sunday afternoon.. and run it just a little.. but haven't had a real test yet.. Been really busy this week and probably next week too.. I picked up a real nice low mileage Jeep Liberty real cheap because it was vandalized.. for my daughter to drive back and forth to college. Jeep was vandalized ( keyed down the sides egged or some kind of acid to mess up the paint beat on with something maybe a hammer.. broken mirror front and rear brake / turn signals  ).. Believe it was the guys ex girl that he bought the Jeep for her to drive..

So I'm on body shop duty this week .. had to replace a door skin.. pull several dents replace fender etc.. got it almost ready for paint.. hoping to shoot the paint at least by Friday so that next week I can start putting the doors, fenders etc back on it and then do a check of breaks, oil change , and trans service etc.. gotta make sure it's going to be safe and ready for my daughter to drive... college is 45 min drive each way.. but the good thing is.. most of it is online.. so she only goes one day a week for lab work..

Anyway.. back on topic.. I hope to get a good test on the Hawk next week..    

[kmmcrafts]

On 8/29/2017 at 2:01 AM, SCROLLSAW703 said:

km, your tension adjustment lever should be pointed towards you, or the front of the saw, however you want to look at, it at all times. To adjust tension, you really don't need to flip your blue lever. Once you get your blade in place, you can adjust the tension by turning the adjustment rod at the back of the saw. Flip your cam lock over at the nose of the top arm & check your tension. If it isn't enough, flip it back, & add another twist on your adjustment rod. That's how I've done it, & leave the lever alone. 

A piece of advice. Try to make sure your blade is centered in that bottom blade holder. Your chances of breakin' blades are greater if it isn't. Also, on the underneath side of the top arm, right under the cam lock, there is a 3/32" allen screw. It needs to be tightened against the cam til you can just start to feel resistance. That little screw needs to tightened every few months to keep resistance against the cam in order for it to keep the blade tight. Make sure the little nylon washer under the blue lever stays clean & dry, or your tension will back off. 

Once you get your bottom blade holder in place, make sure the keepers will hold it, but at the same time, let the blade holder move. If not, loosen them up just a touch. When you insert your blade in the top holder, make sure, as mentioned, it's at the back of the blade holder & push it up til you feel it stop. Your blade is in place. Once you get the tension set, it will hold it. These are some feathers I cut with mine using a #0 blade. A butterfly from beetle kill pine, & a small Crucifix from oak. The feathers are 3/16" thick, & scrap wood glued together, & run thru the planer to 3/16". All cut with my BM.

Thanks for the info on the small allen screw under the top arm.. I will look into that.. I have notice that the blades don't break as much if I run the saw at slower speeds.. I feel like maybe it is something with the tension being lost at the higher speeds.. makes me wonder if I need to adjust the screw you had mentioned.. Shouldn't be because of anything worn.. as the saw was brand new still boxed when I got it back in May.. I've only cut a small amount of items on it.. maybe at best 5 projects..   

[SCROLLSAW703]

I've found with the BM it's pretty easy to over tension smaller blades. I run mine a little tighter than some because I'm a perfectionist, & have tall expectations of not only the blade, but the saw, too. I cut a lot of detailed projects, from Native American work to lettering. I'm yet to break a blade, or lose tension. My BM is a year old this month. 

Keeping the saw well tuned, clean, & everything in line is an important aspect of the Hawk. The longer you use it, & more projects you endure with it, the more you'll get to know it. The Hawk saws are unlike any saw you've ever used. Some things on it are more touchy than other parts. Read the manual til you can't stand to read it anymore, ease into it with hands on. They are more simple than you realize, but as complicated as you make it.

You do have my curiosity up about something. You keep saying yours is a 26 Ultra. Mine is a 26. I looked on their website & didn't see a 26 ultra, unless I overlooked something. What's the difference?

[Oldmansbike]

The 26 Ultra is what they were called back in the 90s when RBI made them. I think the BM Hawks have a different motor and lower blade holder. Don't quote me on that though. 

[kmmcrafts]

6 hours ago, SCROLLSAW703 said:

You do have my curiosity up about something. You keep saying yours is a 26 Ultra. Mine is a 26. I looked on their website & didn't see a 26 ultra, unless I overlooked something. What's the difference?

There is a video on their web site that says something to the effect VS & Ultra series VRS the BM series.. they probably explain it best in the video.. I've always found it odd there is no mention of the G4 saw ( that I recall of ).. 

The ultra has a lower blade adjustment for aggressiveness.. so does the BM's.. but the BM's have variable adjusting.. where as the Ultra just has two positions to put your blade holder into.. Also the lower table angle and or the lower arm was redesigned and on the BM series the arm protrudes through the table angling mechanism where as on the older Ultras the arm is behind the table angle so I have to reach in behind the angle mechanism to change my blade etc.. They do have different motors as well.. otherwise.. same basic saw.. I also have a old 220VS that I bought last year Oct.. took me forever not to break blades on this saw too.. I'm sure it's just a learning curve for my ultra.. My 220VS is from 1993.. and my ultra is from 1998 according to Hawk..  Really like to sell both of my Hawks .. and get the new BM series saw.. But people aren't really paying much for the older Hawks.. while I only gave $100 for my 220VS and $400 for my 26 Ultra.. I'd probably be pressed to get much more than that from them.

[stevan]

10 hours ago, kmmcrafts said:

 I picked up a real nice low mileage Jeep Liberty real cheap because it was vandalized.. for my daughter to drive back and forth to college. Jeep was vandalized ( keyed down the sides egged or some kind of acid to mess up the paint beat on with something maybe a hammer.. broken mirror front and rear brake / turn signals  )..

 

Believe it was the guys ex girl that he bought the Jeep for her to drive..

I hear Carrie Underwood in the background...

Before He Cheats

Edited August 31, 2017 by stevan

[meflick]

4 hours ago, stevan said:

I hear Carrie Underwood in the background...

Before He Cheats

Well, being of the female persuasion, that was my thought BEFORE I got to the part - sounds like somebody made a girlfriend mad   - I love that song  Good thing for my hubby he's never made me that mad in our 34 years+ together.  Course his words of wisdom to anyone getting married is to learn two simple words - "yes, dear." Might explain it. 

[stevan]

My wife is always warning advising me with "Happy Wife, Happy Life".

[kmmcrafts]

Well I have paint on the Jeep now so maybe I will be able to get back at my saw soon.. Here are some pictures of my process on the Jeep for anyone that might have an interest.. Jeep had some rust on the bottom of the drivers door where I made the small patch.. and the passenger side door I cut the whole bottom off and made a new one to replace it.. rest was just lots of dents.. replaced front fender, bumper cover, and grill  ( parts painted off the Jeep and need to be installed yet. ).. Anyway.. enjoy the pictures of another type of hobby I enjoy doing, LOL

This is a list of the pictures in order of what was going on here.. 

1. Driver door rust hole

2 Cut rust area out

3 homemade patch in place ( sorry no welded photo)

4 passenger door cut off

5 patch test fitting

6 Painted drivers side 

7 Painted Passenger side ( only painted the lower portion of the doors )

8 Front fender shine..LOL

Sorry if this is sort of off topic.. Just thought I share other works I do..  Now.. back to working on the Hawk for a day or so so the paint on this can cure good before re-assembly starts.. BTW.. FYI.. Body shop here wanted $3700 to do this job.. I'll have just over a weeks work into this.. and about $700 in parts & supplies.. 

[Rockytime]

Thanks for sharing. Very nice work. I have a couple of friends that do body work. I'm not that talented.

[kmmcrafts]

Well so far today I cut out 3 clock orders on the Hawk with no blades breaking.. not quite sure what adjustment I made that actually fixed it since I did a once over on a complete tune up of the saw.. I am thinking the culprit was the little allen screw under the head of the top arm as Scrollsaw703 mentioned.. as the tension lever itself feels like it locks down better.. 

Now that the orders are cut.. back to putting the Jeep back together..