Who likes/has which saw?

[OCtoolguy]

I know this has been haggled over and over but I would like some definitive answers. Who owns which brand of saw, why do you like it better than others and what type of sawing do you do the most of? I am very new to this hobby and did a little bit of research before buying my saw. I got lucky and found a Type 1 DeWalt 788 in excellent condition and after tweaking a few things on it, I'm happy with it so far. But, I would really like some answers as to why you have the saw you have and if you have more than one, why? I was just reading IguanaDon's post regarding his R-B saw but when I watched his videos, he was using a DW like mine. So, now he's gonna change saws? Why? Just want to find out. Am I missing something?

 

Ray

 

[Scrappile]

I had a DeWalt, not under warranty,  for over 2 years.  I kept reading of people having this trouble and that trouble, I had scrolled enough that I know it was something I wanted to keep doing.  I was in a position that I could upgrade so I did.  I went to an Excalibur, and I do not think anyone could convince it is not a better saw than the DeWalt.  It ran smoother, was quieter and I had it several more years than the DeWalt and no problems.  Along the way I got it into my head that I would be scrolling a long time, got enthused about a Hegner, not totally sure why, but, I did.  It took me a while to figure the Hegner out, far more of a learning curve than the DeWalt or the Excalibur, because tension had to be more precise, learning the blade changing, etc., but I could see and feel that the machine would last forever.  Once I got accustomed to it, it became my favorite saw.  So much so I started looking for a used one.  Thought I found one, sold my Excalibur, backed out of buying the other Hegner,  missed my Excalibur so I spent the money I had saved up on a Seyco, closest thing available to the Excalibur.  Do I wish I hadn't gone on that crazy trip, ya, but to late now.  Why do I have/want two saws,,,,, hummm, well because.  Is it practical? well not for me, if I was in production, selling, doing show, yes I think it would be wise to have two, one as a back up or maybe set up a little different so you could switch back and forth.   If I found a "I can't pass it up" buy on a Hawk, I would probably have three saws.  Now you can understand why I am not a rich man, money wise.... But that is my story.  The DeWalt is a good saw, the Excalibur or like is a better saw, the Hegner or Hawk are the best saws.  Scrolling is my biggest pleasure and what I spend the most time doing.  So it is what I spend the most on.

Are you missing something.. Only you can decide that.  But don't tell me I will probably feel pretty foolish. 

I'll sit down now.

Edited August 27, 2017 by Scrappile

[ike]

I have  a Dw788 type 2. I have had it for about 3 or 4 years ( not sure which) and have put $80 in repairs.9 it should hae been $340 but due to the poor service of the repair station theot ut a new motor on it free.I useally put 800 to 1000 hours per year.So i am satified with it, and it's all my Budget will allow.

IKE

[Scrolling Steve]

I got lucky and started out with the EX21,Excalibur, and I love the saw !....Almost 3yrs later and if they were still in production would buy it all over again !

[Oldmansbike]

I started out with a Ryobi made quite a few projects with it. It only used pin end blades so I was limited with what I could do with it. I decided that I really liked working with the scrollsaw so I started looking for something better. My wife and I were at a show called Splinterfest in the Amana Colonies here in Iowa and RBI was there demonstrating their saws. I tried one and I was hooked on it. It was so much nicer to saw on blade changes were a lot easier and hardly any vibration. So I bought one that day. A 26 inch Ultra Hawk. That was back in 1996 and it's still being used today. It's the only saw I own. Never had any trouble with it that wasn't my fault. RBI went out of business some years ago now it is Bushton Manufacturing that makes them. I have never saw or used one of theirs but the people that have them here seem to like them. In my opinion the higher priced saws are worth the money because they make cutting more enjoyable and in the 20 years I have had the Hawk I probably would have spent more money buying Ryobis as they wore out.

[hotshot]

Saws are next to religious for some folks.  I really could get by with one saw or perhaps a backup, but I like toys, especially scroll saws, so I have collected a few.  I have Two Hegners, A Hawk, a Green EX21, a DW788, and and a cheap PCB370ss.  I have tried and gave away a few others.

I will give you what I think the biggest strength is for the better saws I have.

1.  EX21 Mindlessly Easy Top feeder blade changes

2.  Almost as Mindlessly Easy as the EX, except the arm won't stay up

3.  Hegner:  If you use 1/0 and larger blades, and bottom feed, you will probably not be able to wear this saw out. 

4.  Hawk:  The BM26 cuts thicker and cuts larger pieces than any of my other saws.

 

[OCtoolguy]

Thanks for all that great feedback. I will admit that I was at a woodworking show back in the mid 80's in Colorado Springs and for no reason at all, I bought a RB Hawk 26. It came with a stand and was on sale at that time for $500. I brought it home, set it up and really never used it. I didn't like the fact that to change speeds (2 only) you had to change a belt from one pulley to another. And the blade changing was a pain. I just never got into scrolling. And that was way before any of the computer sites were available. It was just me, on my own, living in a very small town up above Colo. Springs. We eventually moved back to So. Cal. and I sold the saw to my neighbor who still has it but has never used it. The only reason I bought it was that it had a  26" throat. Don't ask me why that made a difference to someone who had never scrolled before. Anyway, years went by. I used to attend all the woodworking shows before they disappeared from the area. There was always a guy there demonstrating the Hegners. I was really taken by their compact design and he made it look so easy. So, I never forgot that. When I finally did get interested enough to go looking again, I was really looking for a Hegner but I started reading negative stuff about them. I can't remember what those negatives were but I changed my mind. And after reading on this forum and the other forum that is popular, I decided that a DW 788 was the way to go and to find a used one might be easy. So, here I am with what I have. At this time, I can't find a good reason to trade it off but I'm like you guys. I love tools and buying them is fun. So, I asked the question that brings us to this point. I do appreciate all the answers so far and I hope for more. 

 

Ray

 

[OCtoolguy]

Hey Hotshot, what was #2? You forgot to say what name that was. I'm just curious.

 

Ray

 

[hawkeye10]

5 hours ago, octoolguy said:

I know this has been haggled over and over but I would like some definitive answers. Who owns which brand of saw, why do you like it better than others and what type of sawing do you do the most of? I am very new to this hobby and did a little bit of research before buying my saw. I got lucky and found a Type 1 DeWalt 788 in excellent condition and after tweaking a few things on it, I'm happy with it so far. But, I would really like some answers as to why you have the saw you have and if you have more than one, why? I was just reading IguanaDon's post regarding his R-B saw but when I watched his videos, he was using a DW like mine. So, now he's gonna change saws? Why? Just want to find out. Am I missing something?

 

Ray

 

I had a DW788 that I bought at Woodcraft and it was making noise right out of the box. They had an Excaliber 16 and I swapped the 788 for the EX. A sales person at Wood Craft sold me on the 788, they said it was a better saw. IMO that was hog wash. I have been very happy with my EX16.

[SCROLLSAW703]

i started out with a single speed Craftsman 25+ years ago that I bought used. I completely wore it out. My next saw, & first new one I'd bought was a CW-40 Hitachi. I still use it. I have another 16" Craftsman I use. I bought my first Hawk 3 years ago used. It was a 220VS. I had it two years & wore it out. I traded it in on the BM - 26 I have now a year ago. To date, no issues with it. The main reason I wanted the Hawk saw is they are made here in Kansas. And American made. I'm about 3 - 3 1/2 hours drive from Bushton. I went down & picked my new saw up from the plant, & traded my 220 in. 

I did my share of research on the Hawk saws before I made my final decision. I cut mostly hardwood from 3/8" to 2" thick. No issues. I also do fretwork on it, lettering, I cut my own feathers for my dream catchers, & they are 3/16" thick. You won't find a finer machine. IMO.

Edited August 29, 2017 by SCROLLSAW703

[kmmcrafts]

I started out with a saw (Delta 16" 40-560 2 speed type 2 ) that my father had bought new after he retired in about 1988 and plum wore it out.. he had replaced it with another Delta 16" 40-540 Variable speed in 1997.. One day in about 1999 while paying him a visit and him showing me all the things he had made that week.. I asked about his old saw.. if I could take it and play around with it.. he was delighted that I had finally picked up some interest in maybe sawing.. and said sure.. long story but I brought it home with no blades or wood.. sat on a bench for probably a year.. and finally I picked up some blades.. after asking dad what blades he used most.. He cut a lot of thin stuff so he told me 0/2 Olsen blades.. Put the blades I picked up in the saw and tried cutting a 2x4 in half LOL.. needless to say the saw went so slow and I was like.. no way do I have the penitence to do this stuff.. LOL.. Under the bench the saw went for most of about 6 years... One cold snowy November night back in 2006 I went out and got the saw.. brought it into the house.. found a pattern online.. ( didn't know about spray glues etc.. ) taped the pattern to some 3/8 plywood I had scraps from a project.. Wish I would had known more and got interested in it sooner while dad was still alive ( he passed in March of 2003 ) been sawing ever since.. I hunted all around the internet and while most places didn't have parts for the saw.. I found a place that had a bunch of NOS delta parts for a warehouse they bought out.. Was able to get all I needed to rebuild dads old saw

In late fall of 07 I bought a new Craftsman 16 in saw.. that saw was junk right out of the box.. took it back before ever even trying to cut on it..

Early winter picked up a refurbished Dremel 1800 rebuilt it two times so in 09 bought a Dewalt.. also about 2011 I bought a used Delta SS350 as a back-up saw.. ended up selling the Dremel and the ss350 as I liked my Dewalt best.. Then last year in Oct. I bought my first used Hawk 220VS ..This spring I bought my  Hawk 226 Ultra.. Most expensive saw I bought was my Dewalt.. at $429 with stand and light.. rebuilt that dewalt once and it needs it again.. 

Out of all the saws.. The Dewalt and Hawks was my favorite.. If I could only have one saw.. I'd sell them all and get a new Hawk.. but of the ones I have now.. I'd keep the Hawk 226 Ultra.. while I am still trying to learn the saw and get used to the blade clamp / tension without breaking blades.. I find that it's the most enjoyable saw to cut on..  

BTW.. I still have Dads old saw.. The other saw he had went to my step brothers and all his pattern books etc.. and they don't use it but never would let me have the stuff either.. He had stacks and stacks of magazines and pattern books..  

   

[Ron Johnson]

I started scrolling some 20 plus years ago with a Craftsman 16" scrollsaw. This saw was decent and served my purposes for a little more than a year before upgrading to a Craftsman 20". Two years later I was in a store called House of Tools and took notice of a Excallibur 30" on display. The price tag was  difinitely above the budget I had in mind. After two weeks of thought and extensive research I sold my 20" Craftsman and purchased the Excallibur and never looked back. The main reason for purchasing the Ex was service and Canidian made. I've had this saw for 17 years. The service has been number one and the saw still looks and operates like new. I would have no problem purchasing the same saw today knowing this model is discontinued. 

[WayneG]

2 hours ago, octoolguy said:

Hey Hotshot, what was #2? You forgot to say what name that was. I'm just curious.

 

Ray

 

I do believe hotshot was referring to Dewalt as number two as the blade changes are quick but the damn arm does not stay up...

here is my feedback.

I use the Dewalt 788 and it is a good all round workhorse of a saw. Its the perfect saw to learn on IMO because it is decent with every aspect of the scrolling realm. The table size is something that I don't think gets enough attention. Its great for inside cuts or fretwork as the top blade change is quick, having said that I don't like the way both the top and bottom hold the blade. Its tough to get the blade just perfect as far as being tight, I tend to over tighten and this damage blades. Overall its a great saw and it is the one I kept when I had a Hegner 18 multimax at the same time.

Hunger cuts nicer for sure, the tensioning is tricky but effect when you "get" it however the inside or fretwork projects are an absolute pain in the ass to cut on it due to the way the blade clamps in. Perhaps I did not give it enough of a chance but at that time for my purposes I kept the Dewalt. When I did have both I used the Dewalt for the inside cuts and the Hegner for the outside cuts...

I am at the point now that I want to upgrade the Dewalt so I am thinking of pulling the trigger on the new excelsior or perhaps a used Hawk. I may also be interested in the Jet.

 

Good luck

[WayneMahler]

I went through a bunch of cheaper saws. Ryobi, Porter Cable , Craftsmen. I bought my EX-21 and have not looked back once. The old phrase " You get what you pay for " certainly applies here. I will say, I'm having a bearing (?) problem right now, just don't have time to stop and figure it all out. Still loving it and working around this minor issue.

[OCtoolguy]

This subject is getting more and more interesting as the replies come in. I hope I get  a lot more. It's interesting to me to see and understand each person's perspective on what they have/had and why. Keep the replies coming folks.

 

Ray

 

[Phantom Scroller]

This is my third saw and by far the best. I went from two bone shaking saws with keys to change blades to the EX21 a Moskvitch to a Ferrari and touch wood should anything go wrong I'd buy another. Love it. I tuck it up to bed each night Roly

Edited August 28, 2017 by Phantom Scroller

[KurtP]

I started out with a Mastercraft but the things kept breaking. I went through 4 of these saws before I finally asked for my money back.

My next saw was a Dremel 1800 not bad but the vibration in the thing was horrible.

Found a used DW788 Type 1 for$125 and gave the Dremel away. Liked the DW so much I found another one for a backup saw.

Loved the DW's until I came across a hardly used Green EX21. I managed to talk the guy down to $350. This is the saw i use the most now and love it. 

I still have one of the DW's as a backup but still use it when the weather is nice and I want to scroll outside.  

[JimErn]

I started about 3 years ago with a porter cable saw.  I am slightly manic when I am learning something and I ran that saw 5-7 hours a day, 7 days a week for quite a while - never a hiccup.  But the fixed upper arm drove me crazy since I mostly do fretwork and am a bottom feeder.  An ex-21 showed up on Craigslist and I bought it.  Once I got it tuned per the advice of the folks here, I haven't looked back.  I use the ex all the time now - I can't remember if I properly thanked everyone for the tuning advice, but I should have, so thanks all.

[Bpardue]

Started out with a cheap Porter Cable from Lowes to see if I liked Scrolling. It broke within the 1st year and because I bought the replacement warranty, they gave me a new one and at that same time I upgraded to a type 2 788. The 1st 788 lasted about 3 years before it broke and the service provider could not fix it so they gave me my second 788. That one is now in the shop and I'm back to using the back-up Porter Cable till either I get my 788 back or I get my new Hawk BM26 that I bought last week. The reason for going with the Hawk is because I do not do much Fretwork, I primarily do Intarsia so I am dealing with woods that are 1" thick or thick and the Hawk has a good reputation to be able to handle the thick wood. The Hawk is also easier to work on if needed sense everything is exposed. The other reason I'm going with the Hawk is it is American Made. 

Brian

[stevan]

I started with a $98 Delta from Lowes and for the first 5 - 7 years all I did was cut some hardwood floors for the kitchen (angles and corners and such).  Then I discovered that scrolling was sort of an art unto itself and I attempted to use it to do real scroll saw type work but changing blades was a real pain (had to use a tool).   I was able to sell it with a lite/magnifier and foot switch for $60 and then I went to Craigslist intending to find a Dewalt 788.  There was a nice one about 100 miles away at $300 AND there was a barely used 20 year old Hawk for $450 about 15 miles away.  I lowballed an offer of $350 for the Hawk and came away with it.  I had to buy a few pieces to get it functional but it's up and running well now.

Now I don't have a lot of saw experience to compare with since I've only had the Delta and the Hawk but I'm happy with the Hawk. 

[MTCowpoke22]

I started in high school shop class on some sort of a cheap knock off saw. Maybe they were craftsman, I really don't remember. However, looking back, they had to be sturdy to withstand what us high schoolers put them through. I bought my first Delta SS250 in college, around 2002. I mostly just dinked around with it making things for friends and family as the need arose. After college, I found a few scrolling catalogs and started to get more interested in fretwork. After a few career changes and moves, I've finally gotten pretty serious about it. The Delta was starting to give up last winter, so I finally stepped up to the new Jet saw. I was wanting an Excalibur, but that was when they were unavailable and the Seyco was still in production. I love the Jet. The upper clamp makes switching holes awesome. I can't comment on any of the other saws, as I haven't even had a chance to look at most of them. But I like the one I have.

Edited August 28, 2017 by MTCowpoke22

[OCtoolguy]

Out of curiosity, I have been on the Hawk website watching videos. I came across one about the G4. I have not seen or read anything here on this forum about that saw and after doing a search I found nothing. Has anybody got any feedback on that saw or was it too short lived? It looks like a beefy saw and I was wondering if there are any out there.

 

Ray

 

[rjweb]

yes the Hawk G4 is in Roft shop, he is the  authority on hawk saws, other than HotShot and now Iggy, RJ

[hotshot]

23 hours ago, octoolguy said:

Hey Hotshot, what was #2? You forgot to say what name that was. I'm just curious.

Ray

 

Before I answer you question, let me try to give an explanation to the reason for the comment in the first place.

On the Hegner/Hawk style saws, the motor drives the bottom arm, but not the top arm.  So at the bottom of the stroke, when the arm changes direction and go back up, it is that tension rod in the back that stops the downward momentum, and then re-accellerates the top arm very very quickly going the opposite direction.  Quite a bit of force on that tension rod I would think.  At top speed, the Hawk stops that downward momentum and pulls that blade up 29 times/second.  Not a big deal because that tension rod is strong and can handle it.

However, what do you suppose slows that blade down as it reaches the top of the stroke, and pulls it back down?  Along with the resistance to the the wood, the blade is responsible for the forces required to quickly bring that arm to a halt, then accelerate it back in the downward direction, 29 times per second.  When the blade breaks, the arms fly up on these saws.  This isn't a surprise to the manufactures.  Under the section on "Jewelers Blades" in the Hawk manual, it says:  "To cut metals using your Hawk Scroll Saw, you will need to slow the saw down and cut at a slower speed. "

So, I have been able to use smaller blades on these saws, but I have to be easy on the blades by keeping the speed slow.  

Back to the question on blade sizes, see the chart below to see how the naming convention works on the smaller blades.

Edited August 29, 2017 by hotshot

[SCROLLSAW703]

The Hawk saws have the ability to cut at a slow enough rate, any size blade can be used for any purpose. The blade holders, from the barrel type to the new style for the BM-26 are designed to hold & keep the smallest blade in place. 

The tension setting is easily adjusted at the back of the saw, & tightened & released at the nose of the top arm with a cam arm. Tension is consistently kept on the blade.  

I've been scrollin' 25+ years, & of all the saws I've owned & used, the Hawk has been the easiest to use, easiest to work on, & the most unique. The new 26's have the aggression setting on the bottom arm which makes a completely different saw out of it at every setting. The capabilities of it are endless! I use #0 blades to cut 3/16" thick with no issues. Fretwork is so much easier. The Variable speed can be adjusted in small increments to keep a slow rate of cut if needed, regardless of blade size.