Here is the "dumb" question of the day

[OCtoolguy]

I have been lingering here for quite a while now but I have still never gotten my "dumb" question answered. Or maybe I just haven't asked it in the right way. I have done a bit of marquetry using very thin veneer and a 2/0 blade. But, if I decide to do something else in thicker wood or just for a practice session, how should I decide what blade to use. It would be very simple if there was only one blade to choose from but I have many. I bought a sample pack from FD before they closed up and moved to TB. How does a person know when a blade cuts better than another type blade? Is it truly a "try and drive" situation? I know it has something to do with the wood and the thickness etc. but how do you really know when one blade cuts better than another? I wish I had someone close by to sort of pick their brain. Here on the forum you get so many differing opinions as to brand and size and pattern, it becomes very confusing for a novice like me. I would love to have some good input on this. Leave the brand of blade out of it. Just the tooth pattern and size/number please. Thanks for your patience.

 

Ray

 

[WayneMahler]

Ray

Olson put out a scroll saw blade chart for reference. You can down load it  here and keep if for reference in the future.

Hope this helps with your question. 

[Iguanadon]

Hey Ray,

Yep, it's pretty much, try 'em and see how you like 'em.  There are some little charts like this one http://www2.woodcraft.com/PDF/Olson-scrollblade-chart.pdf but I use a #3 blade for all of my puzzles cut from 3/4" poplar and you won't see that as a recommended blade anywhere.  Use whatever feels right for you allowing you to cut the detail the way you want, that doesn't burn the wood and that doesn't snap or break often.  I have several different blades, all sizes, different makers that I've tried over the past 2 years.  You'll find the ones you like best, that cut the cleanest, the smoothest, etc and you'll stick with them.  Olson -vs- Flying Dutchman is like Ford -vs- Chevy, folks have their favorite but they're all good.

I'm happy to chime in and give you no help at all.  :-)

[Jim McDonald]

Iggy hit most of the high points.  You WILL get a feel for blade/species/thickness questions.  My absolute go to blade is a FD-3UR.  But, in my stuff are various sizes of FD, Olson and Pegas blades and I will switch depending on my feel at that point.  There are some here who cut 95% with one size blade and that is their comfort level.  They know what to expect and they can make the blade do their bidding.

It seems to me that I am always about 1 size large than the consensus, but it comfortable for me and I can do what I want.  I also keep my blade a little tighter than a lot of folks.

Unfortunately, there is no set chart that has been published.  It is up to the artist to choose their tool. 

[Rolf]

For the record there are no dumb questions

Like Iggy and Jim said you will get a feel for your blades with time and experience.

When I started scrolling ~12 years ago, I bought a bunch of different blades from most of the manufacturers. I tend to go with a smaller blade than most for the details and control that I need for what  I cut. It is hard to leave brand names out of it because a 2/0 from say FD is a different animal from a 2/0 from Olson.

I cut a lot of delicate detailed ornaments, stack cut 6  1/16 thick Finish birch ply. I use a 2/0 Olson 28 teeth/inch(TPI)  revers tooth blade. It is easy to control and goes where I want it to without any delay when I turn the wood. The FD 2/0 blade has 15TPI, it cuts faster but flexes more in the turns. 

For 3/4 inch wood I like a #3 with 13 TPI depending on the hardness or type of wood. I may go to a #7 skip tooth with 10 TPI. 

The fewer the teeth the faster and  more aggressive the cut.

I don't like crown tooth blades. 

Most folks swear by their favorite brand because they have gotten used to how they cut. All blades need to be used for a while until you learn their quirks. Most have a bias for cutting to one side at an angle. The Olson PGT series cuts perfectly straight.

The main thing is blade tension and practice, let the blade do the cutting. Do a straight cut and stop watching the blade catch up. Don't force the blade.

A reference  chart mentioned above. http://www2.woodcraft.com/PDF/Olson-scrollblade-chart.pdf

  

 

Edited September 9, 2017 by Rolf

[SCROLLSAW703]

well, first of all, to make ya feel better, there ain't a dumb question, boss, unless it didn't get asked. When I started 25 years ago, I read a book about scroll sawing, & it said throughout it to get several blades & try them in different projects. 
There are a thousand ways to answer to your question, Ray. A good rule of thumb is the thicker the material, the bigger the blade. The thinner the material, the smaller the blade. And, the smaller the blade, the more tension. The bigger the blade, the less tension. We all have our preferred blades to work with. My preference is Olson & FD. Most all of my projects are hardwood. I plane my lumber to 1/2" or there abouts for most projects, unless a different idea strikes me. I use #2, #3, & #4 skip tooth blades as a rule. 

I cut my own feathers for my dream catchers from 3/16" planed wood. I'll use a #0 or #1 skip tooth for those. Fretwork usually about the same. 

For lettering & detail in projects, I'll use #0 - #3 polar blades because they are a thinner dimension blade, leave a smooth, clean cut, & less fuzzies to deal with. 

If I'm cuttin' outside cuts, or minimal designs, I use a #5 skip tooth blade.

You'll find your blade size has a lot to do with your cutting speed & projects, & wood species. You just have to find a blade that works best for you & the type of cutting you do.

Edited September 9, 2017 by SCROLLSAW703

[OCtoolguy]

So much great info it's hard to digest it all. One of you mentioned "quirks". That's sort of what I meant when I asked the question. If a newbie has no idea what "quirks" are involved, well it's hard to decide what to fix and what is normal. As you have all pretty much said, it's experience and nothing will take the place of that.

Ray

 

Edited September 9, 2017 by octoolguy

[Iguanadon]

As my mother used to tell me "There are no stupid questions, only stupid people asking questions."  

And people wonder why I'm a sarcastic ass... I came by it naturally.

:-)

As a follow up and as an example, I've found that I love the Olson Precision Ground Tooth, but the smallest size they offer is a #5 so I went with the Mach Speed for the #3 that I prefer to use.  I love Crown Tooth because they leave a very smooth and clean edge, but they cut slower, so I stopped using those... You'll find your favorite brand and type.

Edited September 9, 2017 by Iguanadon

[Scrolling Steve]

Like a couple of the others have said....There are no dumb question !

[crupiea]

That chart is very handy.  You will notice that you might have less control if the blade is too small or it seems like a buzz saw blade because its so big.  then you just fine tune it from there.

Its a pretty constant thing so once you have a few blade range to match your wood its a simple thing.

For me I basically make everything out of 1/8" bb.  I use the same for backers so the biggest blade i will use is maybe a 3.  thats for the 1/4" piece front and backing together.  That or a 1.

I doo the rest of the cuts with a 2/0.  so really i only have 3 blades that i use all the time.  3, 1 and 2/0.  thats it, usually i dont even use the 3 so its really just the 2 sizes.  

 

[Blaughn]

I found it very helpful to purchase several assorted blades sets and then use the practice pattern with different blades.  You will improve your cutting skills and will learn what to look for in blades that match your touch.  I have settled on the Flying Dutchman 1, 3 and 5  ultra reverse blades.  I like they way the handle in tight spots and I like the smooth finish they leave behind in the cut.  I can do extremely fine cuts in the cherry wood I prefer to work with.  That, however, is MY personal preference.  Yours may differ.

If you haven't found the practice patterns, here's a link:  http://www.scrollsawgoodies.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/TCF0003_Practice.pdf  

 

Edited September 21, 2017 by Blaughn

[Lucky2]

Ray, I'm afraid that you might just have to do some of your own trial and error experiments, like most of us did when we first started out. I'm not pointing you out, but there's been a lot of people asking questions they should be able to find the answers to themselves with just a little bit of experimenting on their own. If you figure it out on your own, it will stick in your brain longer. You've been scrolling long enough now, that you should know what blade cuts what best. If your talking marquetry and thickness of wood, you should know what thickness a blade will cut by now. That's all you have to figure out, what blade works best with 1/16" or 1/4" or 3/8" or 1/2" and so on. Learn that, and you will know as much or more them the rest of us.

Len

[Lucky2]

Ray, I'm not sure if it still exists or not, but if you could find Mike Moorlach's (flying Dutchman) site, there's all kinds of information there on what blade does what. It tells you the size to use, and what type to use on  what material. I think that if you find the site and read all that Mike has posted, you will be well informed on what blade to use for what.

Len

[Rolf]

Ray another suggestion would be to try and find other scrollers in your area. I was fortunate that a club had started up in my area not long before I started to scroll.

[OCtoolguy]

Rolf, I did that with the wood carving club. I'm not sure how to find a scroller's club or group. I found the carver's group from the Wood Carving Illustrated site but I haven't found one here.

 

Ray

 

[Jim McDonald]

20 hours ago, Lucky2 said:

Ray, I'm not sure if it still exists or not, but if you could find Mike Moorlach's (flying Dutchman) site, there's all kinds of information there on what blade does what. It tells you the size to use, and what type to use on  what material. I think that if you find the site and read all that Mike has posted, you will be well informed on what blade to use for what.

Len

Wooden Teddy Bear did a great service in preserving Mike's website when they bought the business.

 

The link for the site is https://mikesworkshop.com/

 

[OCtoolguy]

Thanks for that link Jim. Another question comes to mind. Even when the size number is the same, no matter the brand, how do the blades themselves differ? As somebody above stated, the brands are different in pattern, angle, kerf etc. I suppose it's still just a crap shoot until I get enough experience to see the difference. I'm going to cut up some wood and paste the practice patterns on it and start cutting. I'll make notes of what works and what doesn't or whatever. Thanks to all.

 

Ray

 

[OCtoolguy]

On 9/9/2017 at 0:04 PM, Iguanadon said:

Hey Ray,

Yep, it's pretty much, try 'em and see how you like 'em.  There are some little charts like this one http://www2.woodcraft.com/PDF/Olson-scrollblade-chart.pdf but I use a #3 blade for all of my puzzles cut from 3/4" poplar and you won't see that as a recommended blade anywhere.  Use whatever feels right for you allowing you to cut the detail the way you want, that doesn't burn the wood and that doesn't snap or break often.  I have several different blades, all sizes, different makers that I've tried over the past 2 years.  You'll find the ones you like best, that cut the cleanest, the smoothest, etc and you'll stick with them.  Olson -vs- Flying Dutchman is like Ford -vs- Chevy, folks have their favorite but they're all good.

I'm happy to chime in and give you no help at all.  :-)

You mentioned that you use a #3 blade but it wasn't recommended. Ok, what about your new saw? Will you be using the same blade on it as you did on your DW788? Will one blade perform better on all machines or on particular machines? I see some folks use only Flying Dutchman blades. You use Olsen, others recommend others. That's what I guess I'm confused about. The guy whose class I took on marquetry uses nothing but 2/0 blades and he buys them by the gross from OttoFrei. He is the only person who I have heard of that uses that brand. He maintains it's because of price. I guess I will just have to do as all of you folks have done and just figure it out on my own. Thanks to all.

 

Ray

 

[hawkeye10]

On 9/9/2017 at 1:52 PM, octoolguy said:

I have been lingering here for quite a while now but I have still never gotten my "dumb" question answered. Or maybe I just haven't asked it in the right way. I have done a bit of marquetry using very thin veneer and a 2/0 blade. But, if I decide to do something else in thicker wood or just for a practice session, how should I decide what blade to use. It would be very simple if there was only one blade to choose from but I have many. I bought a sample pack from FD before they closed up and moved to TB. How does a person know when a blade cuts better than another type blade? Is it truly a "try and drive" situation? I know it has something to do with the wood and the thickness etc. but how do you really know when one blade cuts better than another? I wish I had someone close by to sort of pick their brain. Here on the forum you get so many differing opinions as to brand and size and pattern, it becomes very confusing for a novice like me. I would love to have some good input on this. Leave the brand of blade out of it. Just the tooth pattern and size/number please. Thanks for your patience.

 

Ray

 

Ray I like dumb questions. I always learn something from them.

[Bill WIlson]

10 hours ago, octoolguy said:

Thanks for that link Jim. Another question comes to mind. Even when the size number is the same, no matter the brand, how do the blades themselves differ? As somebody above stated, the brands are different in pattern, angle, kerf etc. I suppose it's still just a crap shoot until I get enough experience to see the difference. I'm going to cut up some wood and paste the practice patterns on it and start cutting. I'll make notes of what works and what doesn't or whatever. Thanks to all.

 

Ray

 

I highlighted your statement above.  That is really the only true way you will ever be able to determine for yourself, what works best for you.  It's a process and it isn't as daunting as it may sound.  No law says you have to try every blade out there, but the more you try, the better informed you will be.  Blade preference can be very subjective.  You can give 5 scrollers the same pattern and wood to cut and it's likely each one will use a different blade, so polling other scrollers will only get you so far.  Take the info you've learned so far and run with it.  Start with Flying Dutchman and Olson blades.  Determine what type of scrolling you will be doing most.  Blades with reverse teeth will be best suited for most fretwork, so that narrows down the options a little.  Smaller blades for thin stock and fine detail.  Thick blades for heavy cutting in thick stock.  Skip tooth blades are often used for compound cutting, where you are cutting very thick stock, but don't have to worry about any tear out on the bottom side.  Spirals work best for portrait type cutting, where there aren't a lot of straight, smooth lines or sharp corners/points.  Puzzles and metal both have their own specialty blades.  

Generally speaking, the qualities you find in a particular blade will be the same in the other sizes of that same blade style/brand.  There are some exceptions to this rule, but typically, the only real difference will be the thickness of material it's best suited for.  Different brands will exhibit different characteristics, but the same general rules apply.   You will quickly narrow down the candidates and get a feel for which blades to use for different applications. 

Good luck and have fun making sawdust.

[Rolf]

I think Bill did a great job of summing things up.  Just make sure you spend enough time with a blade to adjust to the way it cuts. I remember my first cuts threw me for a bit as the blade did not cut straight like I expected it to. With some research I found out that most blades don't cut straight. so I learned to compensate.

[redwine]

Ray, you stated that you would be taking notes on the different blades you are or will be using and that will help you a lot. I would keep a log, pun intended, of the mfg., # of blade, teeth, tension, tight or not so tight, wood used,  thickness, etc. This may seem like a lot of work but it would come in handy later on. Incorporate that information with one of the blade charts mentioned and what you yourself find out about different blades you use and you may end up with more information than you can use. lol. Other than this just pick and choose different blades till you fine one that works for you.

Erv  

[OCtoolguy]

Thank you so much everybody. I will take the time to do as you all pretty much suggested. On the subject, what do you all think of the PEGAS brand of blades? I'm just cuious. I see them advertised but I have never seen them for sale in stores. Or mentioned here. It seems to be FD or Olsen that are being used the most.

 

Ray

 

[Scrappile]

There was quite a discussion on this forum a while back about them.  Lot of people like the "modified geometry".  I purchase a sample pack and tried different sizes, but for the type of work I am doing they were just too aggressive for me.  I do like their double tooth blades though.

Here is one of the discussion threads, there were others also.

 

Edited September 21, 2017 by Scrappile

[Bill WIlson]

Back a few months ago, Pegas blades were the subject of several posts on this forum and other scrolling forums.  Personally I've never used them, but generally speaking, the reviews were pretty positive, as I recall.  They are definitely worth investigating.  I would just warn against getting too many irons in the fire at one time, when it comes to testing blades.  It's a journey and it took most of us years to develop our own personal bias'. 

Most scrolling supplies are best found on the internet and/or mail order.  There are several good suppliers of patterns, blades, hardware and other scrolling specific items.  I've mostly used Sloan's Woodshop  and The Wooden Teddy Bear for Olson and FD blades.  I can't say where to buy Pegas blades.