"Bucking" saw; any steel table-insert replacements?

[Kris]

Hello!
 - I'm new here - I decided to join because I need to learn A LOT and because I've been unable to find a solution to my problem.
That problem is that my scroll saw bucks like a rodeo bull and the plastic insert seems to act like a spring rather than as a stabilizing unit.  It also doesn't fit properly and "catches" everything I try to saw, but that's a separate problem.  Anyway, I feel that I must be doing something terribly wrong - am I the only one with this bucking/bouncing/trampoline problem...?
 - The scroll-saw I have is a WEN 16" super-basic.  Yes, it was cheap, but it is all I can afford.    Blades, on the other hand - my go-to are Pegas modified-geometry blades.  I've followed the charts regarding blade size, and wood thickness.  I've been working exclusively with hardwoods, and at that, mostly tropical hardwoods.  Most are only 1/4" thick.  The Pegas blades did *reduce* the bucking, but it's still bad.  
 - I had tried adding a strong-but-thin cutting board on the table ((with a hole in it, of course)), and it helped, but was nevertheless an imperfect solution.  I also used JB-Weld to fill-in the entire underside of the plastic insert, and added some pieces of steel rod for more support - again, some reduction, but it's still so bad that I can't do much of anything at all, because the bucking tears-up thin wood no matter how hard I try to hold it down.  ((I also don't understand why the hold-down foot also seems to be universally awful, judging by the number of complaints I've seen about them.))
 - I also did try reducing the clearance with everything from tape, to stiff plastic sheet, and so on, and I've just finished gluing some 20-gauge stainless steel sheet that I cut out ((I use aviation snips,  so there is a definite limit on what I can cut by hand)).  The height difference between the insert and the table, despite being enough to catch wood and mess-up what I'm doing, is nonetheless too small to permit the addition of any "topping" that adds any actual support.
 - What I am wondering is, Why are table inserts so universally **awful**...?  And especially, Does anyplace sell or make properly-fitting *metal* inserts?  It doesn't make sense to me that the *table* is so strong, but when it comes to the place where strength, support, and smooth movement are the most necessary, the only thing one can buy is the same plastic junk that causes the problems in the first place.  
 - I'd ideally like something made of steel plate <!>  but I have the feeling that having one made would cost more than the machine, meaning, far more than I can afford :(
 -
 - ANYhoo, I'd be very interested in whether others have had these problems, and whether there are solutions that can be arrived at by someone with very little equipment and only a room in one's residence within which to work...
 -
 - Many Thanks in Advance for any information, links, advice, or heck, even a Hello, LOL! 
 -
 - Kris


 

[OCtoolguy]

Have you thought about possibly making a table topper out of plexiglass or hard board and attaching it with two sided tape? I made a topper for my DeWalt saw out of 1/4" hardboard and it works great. I see many folks have made toppers out of formica or something similar. You must have some other problem though that is causing such roughness. I have no experience with that saw so I can't add anything there. Sorry.

 

Ray

 

Edited September 12, 2017 by octoolguy

[meflick]

Hi Kris and welcome.  I'm not going to be able to help with your problem but I did want to say hello and welcome.  Lots of experienced, technical scrollers on here so hopefully some of them can give you some good ideas/help. I'm not familiar with that saw and the "technical" side I have my hubby as my go to for help.  One question I did have is do you have the bolted to a saw stand or a table? I would think having it attached to a stand or table would cut down on the bucking perhaps.

[Jim McDonald]

I'm to go WAY out on a limb here and ask the obvious question:

Is it possible you have the blade in upside down?  The teeth should be pointing down to cut on the down stroke and be smoother on the way up.  Everyone here will admit (privately, of course) to having inserted a blade or two up side down, and that will make the wood come up off the table and buck around.

[bandaideman]

I used to put them in like that but then had to stand on my head so I learned to put them in the right direction. Jim is right it can get pretty bouncy and painful when the fingers get hit. That was going to be my suggestion. I am not familiar with that saw so not sure what else to say. 

[tuner]

First  WELCOME 

My only thought is to make sure your blade is tight, and stays that way. You are getting that " ping" when you set the tension, right. Also make sure table is level and blade is at 90 deg. Good luck

Edited September 13, 2017 by tuner

[tuner]

Kris , I may have missed read your post.

Is it the wood that bucks or the saw ?

If it's the saw then something is way wrong.

[SCROLLSAW703]

wow!! that's a new one! The first thought that came to mind is if the blade is installed correctly, but that has been mentioned.

Then if your saw is bolted or clamped to your bench. And that has been mentioned.

Not knowing anything about your saw, & you're sayin' you're cuttin' hardwood. No offense, but hardwood isn't the best to learn on, & expensive too. 

Your center piece has nothing to do with your saw "bucking." First of all, what blade(s) are you trying to use? Your bucking issue could be from to aggressive of a blade, & possibly being installed wrong.

My advice would be to back up a little, spend some time with your operators manual. Learn about your machine before ya flip the power switch.

Then get ya some pieces of pine, like from a pallet, or scrap pieces from hd, or such. They do have them, I've got them there myself. Then get yourself some #2, #3, & #4 blades. Draw ya some lines, curves, up & down lines, etc. on the pine pieces. Install a blade in your blade holders, teeth facing down. An easy way to tell if you've got the blade in correctly is to run your thumb up the blade. If you can feel the teeth with your thumb up the blade, it's installed correctly. 

Tension the blade til you get a high pitched "ping" when you lightly strum the blade. Flip the power switch & set your variable speed to about 2 or 3 to start. As your skills improve, so will your speed. 

Introduce your wood to the blade. LET THE BLADE DO THE WORK, & you just "steer" the wood like you would your car. Keep just enough pressure on the wood to keep it feedin' into the blade. Turn easy, small turns to follow your line. Just keep at it til you start getting the hang of it. It's really not rocket science, just a matter of concentration & willingness to learn. 

hope this helps. Don't hesitate to ask questions. That's how we learn. God bless, & make some sawdust.;)
 

 

[WayneMahler]

This can be a tough problem to solve. It can be the machine, the blade or the user. If it's the machine well being new there is a warranty. If it is the user, touchy subject. If you install the blade upside down it can cause this. Blades are designed to cut on the down stroke. This applies pressure to keep the wood down. Knowing what blades you are using can help with this. As for the blade option once again would need to know more information.  Reverse blades cut on the down and up stroke. Regular blades cut on the down stroke. I'm trying to keep this basic to help. If you can provide more information you may get better results for your question. Being new we all have suffered growing pains  . This I state from personal experience  

[spirithorse]

Welcome, Chris,

I agree that I think it is the blade is installed up-side down and the speed is probably too high,

I personally would not want a steel insert because when a blade breaks it doesn't hurt much if it
just chews up the plastic insert a little.

Try bolting or clamping the saw down, perhaps with a piece of thick cardboard or carpet under it
and check the direction of the blade.

Good luck and God Bless! Spirithorse

[Lucky2]

Kris, welcome to the site. Is your saw bolted down to a sturdy bench, or surface of some type. And what type not brand of blade are you using, you may be using the wrong type of blade stock And cutting thin stock can cause issues, how does the saw work on thicker wood something like 3/4"? One of the first things I would do to this saw, is I would remove the blade guard as  they usually get in the way of changing blades.

Len

[Bpardue]

Another idea - If the saw is bolted down - add some foam padding between the saw & table and re-bolt it to the table. My 1st saw years ago had a bad vibration and in talking with a old long time scroller he suggested adding a couple layers of carpet padding between the saw & my workbench top. I did that and the majority of the vibration went away. I still use the carpet padding on my 788 that i have now. (well was using it but that saw is in the repair shop)

 

[MrsN]

My only thought, that wasn't mentioned, is your blade square to the table and how much does it move during its stroke?

I don't know how to adjust this on your saw but I am sure someone can help figure it out.

 

Start with some of the easy fixes like checking the blades and securing the saw to the table.

[amazingkevin]

i'd bet the blades in upside down .