Color me surprised - DeWalt replacement

[Iguanadon]

So... the 2nd DeWalt that I wore out was still under warranty, so when I had my big event near Raleigh a couple of weeks ago, I took it to the DeWalt repair center in Raleigh (which is the closest one to me, 155 miles).  I dropped it off, the guy said they'd look it in about 5 days.  When I hadn't heard anything after 10 working days I called this past Friday, he looked it up, said he has only 1 guy that works on scroll saws and he'd work on it Monday.  No big deal, I'm in no rush.

Well, UPS just pulled up and Mrs. Iggy said "Did you order something heavy again?"  "Nope, not this time..."  Lo and behold the UPS guy rolls up with a brand new DW788 on his cart... I guess the technician looked at mine Monday figured it was dead and had a new one sent to me.  No phone call, no nothing, just SURPRISE! A new saw.  Finally, a nice surprise for Iggy.

A very pleasant surprise as I've decided I'm going to stick with DeWalt's and just use 'em til I wear 'em out and then buy a new one.  The Hawk just isn't working out, it's going back to Kansas at some point.  I just have to figure out how to box it up to send back.

[OCtoolguy]

49 minutes ago, Iguanadon said:

So... the 2nd DeWalt that I wore out was still under warranty, so when I had my big event near Raleigh a couple of weeks ago, I took it to the DeWalt repair center in Raleigh (which is the closest one to me, 155 miles).  I dropped it off, the guy said they'd look it in about 5 days.  When I hadn't heard anything after 10 working days I called this past Friday, he looked it up, said he has only 1 guy that works on scroll saws and he'd work on it Monday.  No big deal, I'm in no rush.

Well, UPS just pulled up and Mrs. Iggy said "Did you order something heavy again?"  "Nope, not this time..."  Lo and behold the UPS guy rolls up with a brand new DW788 on his cart... I guess the technician looked at mine Monday figured it was dead and had a new one sent to me.  No phone call, no nothing, just SURPRISE! A new saw.  Finally, a nice surprise for Iggy.

A very pleasant surprise as I've decided I'm going to stick with DeWalt's and just use 'em til I wear 'em out and then buy a new one.  The Hawk just isn't working out, it's going back to Kansas at some point.  I just have to figure out how to box it up to send back.

My advice is to call them and have them ship you a return carton. I have had to do that in the past when I had either discarded the box or had to destroy it to get it open. They'll do it I'm sure. They'll want to know what's wrong with your saw too, I'm sure.

Ray

 

[ike]

I have no complaints with my DW 788 just the repair service Ane dewalt took care of that for me. the next saw up would be $8090 to $1000 thats not in my buidget.

IKE

[Scrappile]

Iggy, wish we lived close, I let you try my Seyco.  I think the "Excalibur" level of saw, Seyco or Excelsior 21, etc., maybe the King (I still have reservation on that one, but, I could be wrong) are better, longer lasting saws than the DeWalt.  You tried a Hawk, and I am sorry it didn't work out, but to go back to wearing out DeWalts, dealing with there weak service centers, and all that hassle, seems counter productive to me.  Not criticizing the DeWalt, I owned one, but I went to Excalibur and the like (now Seyco) and you would not get me back to a DeWalt.  I got to say, the DeWalt followers are loyal, no matter how many times they have to return it, wait x number of weeks to get sorta fixed or a replacement, they think they are being treated great..... Okay no one likes me anymore.  Sorry if I stepped on toes, but it does amaze how loyal the DeWalt owners are.  I like to hear from an Ex type owner that went back to a DeWalt.... There may be some that I do not know about.  Just my opinion,,, not worth much, but if I was in a business, depending on a scroll saw........ just saying.

[hotshot]

Iggy, what is the thing/s with the Hawk that is not cutting it?  I have some observations about the strengths and weaknesses of the saw, but was curious why it wasn't working for you.

From what I can tell, looks like your puzzles would be fine on a 16", thus opening up the possibility of a lower cost King, and you might be able to pick one up for not much more than the DW.  Might be worth it to give  the EX style saws a shot.  Only reason I might consider Seyco over King is the support model, but the brand plastered on the saw doesn't bother me.  All these ( King/Seyco/Axminster/Carbatec/Pegas) are made by the same folks.  Though Jet is a slightly different animal, I wouldn't surprise me if Jet was made in that same factory.

But, if you get a year or so out of your Dewalts, you have some time to sit back and watch the market to see how things pan out.

So  . . . if you register this new saw, does the warranty period start over?  If so, and you keep wearing them out, you might be able to ride that train for a long time.  You are not the first person I've heard of that received a new saw after turning it in for warranty work.

----Randy

Edited September 13, 2017 by hotshot

[Mark1]

Iggy,

You may want to not give any reviews, positive or negative, before your saw goes back and monies are squared away.  It would be a shame to ruffle any feathers that would complicate any exchange.

I sure wish you the best on this.

Mark

 

[trackman]

Just my two cents--Iggy  what is the definition of insanity?  Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome.  Sounds like  buy a dewalt junk dewalt buy dewalt junk dewalt. I have had a EX21 for 7 years without any major problems. For sure not bad enough to send away. You can't beat Ray Seyco for service. What is the old saying "try it you might like it ". Now I will get off my soapbox. 

[Iguanadon]

I appreciate all the comments and feedback, I want to hear 'em all.  You aren't the first, nor will you be the last ones to call me insane, or worse.  ;-)   I don't consider myself a DeWalt loyalist or anything.  It's just that they cut consistently, other than wearing them out, they do the job well. I never have to adjust the table or anything at all... just start cutting and never touch a thing for 9 months.  It's just that after about 700-800 puzzles cut out of 3/4" poplar, I'm pushing them to their limit and apparently a good part of that is my fault being too aggressive and pushing too hard.

I'd love to find something else that will last.  Honestly, cost is not an issue at all.  I was willing to go with Hawk or Hegner as I don't mind paying for quality.  I'm just not familiar with the other options and if they'll be able to stand up to my "torture".  If it comes down to it and I have to buy a new DeWalt every year, I'm willing to do it.  It adds less than $1 to my overhead cost per puzzle.

I actually had someone suggest taking out the extended warranty if buying from Home Depot or Lowe's and simply take it back and get a new one when it does wear out.  LOL

Agreed, I'm not going to bad mouth the Hawk or the maker, I wouldn't do that no matter what.  I will however show what is happening even after replacing the lower arm that was sent to me.  

 

Edited September 14, 2017 by Iguanadon

[JOE_M]

5 minutes ago, Iguanadon said:

 I will however show what is happening even after replacing the lower arm that was sent to me.  

That's just funky no matter how you look at it. I don't think I ever saw anything like that even back when I was buying the $5 yard-sale scrollsaws. Hopefully you'll get a saw, whatever brand, that does what you need it to do.

[Gonzo]

I started with a Dremel scroll saw. Was given a Type 1 788. What a difference.  The motor fried. I was able to buy an Ex-21. Holy crap, what an even bigger difference between the 788 and EX. I was able to rebuild my 788. I used that as a backup.  Nope, didn't like it anymore. Not even as a back up.  No comparison. Someone here on this forum posted a craigslist ad for an EX-21 in my area.  I jumped at it. These things are as smooth as 18 year old Glenlivet. (makes me have a hankering for a shot)  I guess my point is, Ford, Chevy, Dodge. We all have our preferences. 

Bummer that the Hawk didn't work for you Iggy.  

[rjweb]

Sorry that the hawk didn't work out, but I agree with you on the Dewalt use what you are comfortable with and makes you happy. I had a Dewalt that I bought used for 200., we decided to move to Texas from Pennsylvania so rather than ship it sold it for 300. After using it for 2 years. So now I have a jet nice saw but I miss my Dewalt, good luck with everything, RJ

[hawkeye10]

1 hour ago, Iguanadon said:

I appreciate all the comments and feedback, I want to hear 'em all.  You aren't the first, nor will you be the last ones to call me insane, or worse.  ;-)   I don't consider myself a DeWalt loyalist or anything.  It's just that they cut consistently, other than wearing them out, they do the job well. I never have to adjust the table or anything at all... just start cutting and never touch a thing for 9 months.  It's just that after about 700-800 puzzles cut out of 3/4" poplar, I'm pushing them to their limit and apparently a good part of that is my fault being too aggressive and pushing too hard.

I'd love to find something else that will last.  Honestly, cost is not an issue at all.  I was willing to go with Hawk or Hegner as I don't mind paying for quality.  I'm just not familiar with the other options and if they'll be able to stand up to my "torture".  If it comes down to it and I have to buy a new DeWalt every year, I'm willing to do it.  It adds less than $1 to my overhead cost per puzzle.

I actually had someone suggest taking out the extended warranty if buying from Home Depot or Lowe's and simply take it back and get a new one when it does wear out.  LOL

Agreed, I'm not going to bad mouth the Hawk or the maker, I wouldn't do that no matter what.  I will however show what is happening even after replacing the lower arm that was sent to me.  

 

Scott I have seen snakes that have less wobble than that blade. Oh my!!!!  I to would like you to try an EX. You know my first saw was a DW788 and I took it back to Woodcraft and an EX16. If they would of an EX21 I would have bought that but I have never wanted anything bigger than my EX16. You cutting puzzles a 16 is big enough. I have cut quite a few puzzles on my EX.

Good luck buddy.

[Scrolling Steve]

Scott, when the Farmers market is over for you, stop in one weekend and cut a couple of puzzles on my EX21.....I realize the Ex is not available anymore, but the seyco saw is a clone...if you are interested i will send you my # and adress and you can drop by........Steve. 

[kmmcrafts]

14 minutes ago, Scrolling Steve said:

Scott, when the Farmers market is over for you, stop in one weekend and cut a couple of puzzles on my EX21.....I realize the Ex is not available anymore, but the seyco saw is a clone...if you are interested i will send you my # and adress and you can drop by........Steve. 

Scott, really sorry to hear of the misfortune on your Hawk..  

 

The new Ex is named King Industrial and can still be purchased from woodcraft.com they only offer a 16" or the 30" saw though.. but man the price is awesome on the new King models compared to the actual Excalibur saw.. the 30" one is less than a grand.. Since Scott is used to the way the DeWalt cuts.. the EX I would think be the same other than the strokes per minute are maxed on the King / Ex like saws to 1550 as the Dewalts are 1750.. Ex / King saws have adjustable forward back blade movement.. not as simple to do as the Hawk but really once one gets it where they like.. you would never need to adjust again really

I've really been considering selling my two Hawks for a new King saw.. Love the Hawks for thin material.. but can't stand to cut on it on the thicker wood.. just not aggressive enough and makes me tend to push too hard..

[Iguanadon]

28 minutes ago, Scrolling Steve said:

Scott, when the Farmers market is over for you, stop in one weekend and cut a couple of puzzles on my EX21.....I realize the Ex is not available anymore, but the seyco saw is a clone...if you are interested i will send you my # and adress and you can drop by........Steve. 

Thank you Steve, I'll be taking you up on that offer.  I'd very much like to try an EX.

[Bpardue]

Dewalt is also shipping me a new saw because they can't figure out why it is knocking. I should have it in the either yet this week or next week. I did order the newer Hawk and it is scheduled to arrive on Friday. Over the past few years this Dewalt replacement will be my second replacement saw that I received from them. That being said I will keep the Dewalt as a back-up saw but plan on using the Hawk as my primary saw. 

I truly hope I do not have the issues like Iggy has had with the Hawk BM 26. I'll let everyone know if there are any issues.

 

[NC Scroller]

Scott according to their website the WoodCraft store in Raleigh, just off of Glenwood Road has the King saw in site.  It is a Excalibur clone.  Like you I was a fan of the Dewalt.  Had two of them but once I tried the EX I would not go back.

If we can ever get our schedules in line you are welcome to come up and try my EX-21.

 

[Rolf]

I have never seen anything like that kind of blade motion. Have you sent this video to Hawk? 

My first instinct would be that the blade tension is changing through the stroke. 

Edited September 14, 2017 by Rolf

[WayneG]

4 hours ago, kmmcrafts said:

Scott, really sorry to hear of the misfortune on your Hawk..  

 

The new Ex is named King Industrial and can still be purchased from woodcraft.com they only offer a 16" or the 30" saw though.. but man the price is awesome on the new King models compared to the actual Excalibur saw.. the 30" one is less than a grand.. Since Scott is used to the way the DeWalt cuts.. the EX I would think be the same other than the strokes per minute are maxed on the King / Ex like saws to 1550 as the Dewalts are 1750.. Ex / King saws have adjustable forward back blade movement.. not as simple to do as the Hawk but really once one gets it where they like.. you would never need to adjust again really

I've really been considering selling my two Hawks for a new King saw.. Love the Hawks for thin material.. but can't stand to cut on it on the thicker wood.. just not aggressive enough and makes me tend to push too hard..

I have an excelsior or King in the usa 30 due to arrive soon. I am getting this after striking a deal with King Canada to review the saw on a blog. As a result if that I do know that the 21 King will be an option at woodcraft soon.

Iggy, sucks about the hawk. Why not get them to ship you a replacement? Sounds like you got a lemon that Snuck by quality control tests, people.

I know why people like dewalt as I have one, nothing spectacular but good enough at everything but it is certainly not a professional quality saw but you are a professional....

 

Don't settle, I say... Rather find the right one for you and perhaps that is the dewalt.

Edited September 14, 2017 by WayneG

[Scrappile]

1 hour ago, WayneG said:

I have an excelsior or King in the usa 30 due to arrive soon. I am getting this after striking a deal with King Canada to review the saw on a blog. As a result if that I do know that the 21 King will be an option at woodcraft soon.

Iggy, sucks about the hawk. Why not get them to ship you a replacement? Sounds like you got a lemon that Snuck by quality control tests, people.

I know why people like dewalt as I have one, nothing spectacular but good enough at everything but it is certainly not a professional quality saw but you are a professional....

 

Don't settle, I say... Rather find the right one for you and perhaps that is the dewalt.

You are saying the Excelsior and the King are the same saws?  i did not know that.  If the King is as good as the ex-Excalibur and it sell for the price that low, will that is great!  I hope so much it is.  It will be a terrific saw at a terrific price.  Only thing missing would be Customer Service for problems.  I wish, maybe, Seyco would have waited and become the distributor for it.  Don't suppose they would now that they have their own saw.  

[WayneG]

14 minutes ago, Scrappile said:

You are saying the Excelsior and the King are the same saws?  i did not know that.  If the King is as good as the ex-Excalibur and it sell for the price that low, will that is great!  I hope so much it is.  It will be a terrific saw at a terrific price.  Only thing missing would be Customer Service for problems.  I wish, maybe, Seyco would have waited and become the distributor for it.  Don't suppose they would now that they have their own saw.  

Yes that is what I was told by King Canada. The excelsior which is sold in Canada by King is the exact saw made to the exact specs and in the same factory as the excaliber was. King Canada has struck a deal with woodcraft for distribution in the USA. I have no idea why King Canada chose to market in Canada as Excelsior but the in the USA as King, silly if you ask me but I can ask the question next time I communicate with the contact at King Canada. I should be connecting with him in a week or so. The 16 and 30 are already at Woodcraft and I am told the 21 will follow shortly.

[Lucky2]

Personally, I don't like or have any faith, in tools with the King name on it. For me, King tools are nothing but junk, I've learned my lesson over the years. I'll never buy a King tool again, I've had to return every King tool that I bought. And I've bought lots of their tools, it was a price thing that kept me coming back. Obviously, I'm a slow learner, but eventually I caught on. If there is any doubt in what I'm saying, I can introduce you to many others who think the same of King tools as I do, Buyer beware, don't let a low price fool you, that's how they suck you in. Every piece of equipment of theirs that I owned, was made of inferior materials and broke. I bought a King scroll saw for my FIL because he was interested in learning to scroll, it broke the first time he tried to use it, there was a flaw in the cast metal. I exchanged it for another one, it worked for two projects then broke. Once more I returned it to the store, they offered me another King saw but I decided to get my money back instead. I gave my FIL one of my Delta scroll saws, he loved it and had a great time using it.

Len

[Lucky2]

15 minutes ago, WayneG said:

Yes that is what I was told by King Canada. The excelsior which is sold in Canada by King is the exact saw made to the exact specs and in the same factory as the excaliber was. King Canada has struck a deal with woodcraft for distribution in the USA. I have no idea why King Canada chose to market in Canada as Excelsior but the in the USA as King, silly if you ask me but I can ask the question next time I communicate with the contact at King Canada. I should be connecting with him in a week or so. The 16 and 30 are already at Woodcraft and I am told the 21 will follow shortly.

Wayne, I've got my doubts that they are made to match the specs of the Excaliber saws. King tools aren't known for being quality tools in Canada, to many people have been burned over the years by buying King tools. Do the Excelsior saws being sold in Canada have the King name on them anywhere, or do they just have the Excelsior name? Are marketing them in the states just with the King  name on them? Maybe the reason they are marketing them in the states under the King name, is because not enough Americans aren't familiar with the King brand?

Len

[WayneG]

Not sure Len, I am only going on what I have learned from King Canada both in emails and speaking to them in person along with speaking to multiple sales people and a manager at KMS tools which carries the line of saws. I too also learned that apparently King hired the lead designer of the saws that used to work at General, I have no way of knowing if that is true but time will tell. I will be putting the excelsior 30 through the paces shortly and blogging on it. I too have King products and although they certainly are not the highest of quality they are generally sufficient for the DYI people. I bought two king products and they have served me well, I am upgrading one and keeping one both have been sufficient for my purposes which was learning to use the tools. 

My guess is that the named it excelsior in canada to have a familiar ring to it for canadian scrollers.

My guess is that they are branding it as King in the US to perhaps make a bigger dent in the USA tool market not just the scrollers market.

King Canada has been in business for 35 years so I am not terribly worried about the service aspect of the saw, more so the quality of it.

 

 

[Roberta Moreton]

I have used that same repair shop on Capital Blvd. They do excellent work!