Brand New Hawk...Junk Bearing..Now Broke..

[tonylumps]

Yeah but open Roller you could clean and grease before you start having trouble.Everybody who buys a new Dewalt should take this into account.But hey Dewalt is giving away new saws under warranty so why grease them

[kmmcrafts]

3 hours ago, tonylumps said:

Yeah but open Roller you could clean and grease before you start having trouble.Everybody who buys a new Dewalt should take this into account.But hey Dewalt is giving away new saws under warranty so why grease them

This can be done on sealed bearings too... however it cannot be done on shielded bearings very easily such as the one hotshot has in his saw.

I'm not here to start a saw brand war.. I like my DeWalt just the same as I like my Hawks.. I've tested or owned about every popular brand name saw there is other than a Hegner, and the Sakura (sp).. and I'm sure there are a few I don't know about.. I like the DeWalt and EX types saws.. I think they could be better quality made.. but then.. so can a Hawk.. While they are top of the line saws.. everyone can and will find a weak point in any saw.. or something to complain about..

A DeWalt really is a good bang for your buck saw.. while many people say it's a low to mid range saw.. I consider it better than that really myself.. because it's essentially the same durable design as a EX that everyone raves about.. while the EX just has a few better features.. in some's opinion.. features are nice but they don't enhance the longevity or durability of the saw itself.. while EX may have used a higher end bearing with better grease so they run smoother? I don't know that.. maybe why the King saw is so cheap.. anyone mechanical can just buy a DeWalt and when the bearings need done.. buy the upgraded ones and use your own high end grease like I've done.. 

 

Anyway, back on topic.. I'm taking my control box to a local electric motor shop this morning to have them look / tell me what Potentiometer will best suite my needs.. since the same part number offers two different watt Potentiometers.. with some luck they will hook me up with one.. (keeping business local if I can  ) Then maybe after I am done there I'll stop by my brothers sawmill and see if I can get some photos / videos for you all to see that operation..        

[Rolf]

Kevin can you post a picture of the pot with part numbers on it or just the part numbers.

[tonylumps]

1 hour ago, kmmcrafts said:

This can be done on sealed bearings too... however it cannot be done on shielded bearings very easily such as the one hotshot has in his saw.

I'm not here to start a saw brand war.. I like my DeWalt just the same as I like my Hawks.. I've tested or owned about every popular brand name saw there is other than a Hegner, and the Sakura (sp).. and I'm sure there are a few I don't know about.. I like the DeWalt and EX types saws.. I think they could be better quality made.. but then.. so can a Hawk.. While they are top of the line saws.. everyone can and will find a weak point in any saw.. or something to complain about..

A DeWalt really is a good bang for your buck saw.. while many people say it's a low to mid range saw.. I consider it better than that really myself.. because it's essentially the same durable design as a EX that everyone raves about.. while the EX just has a few better features.. in some's opinion.. features are nice but they don't enhance the longevity or durability of the saw itself.. while EX may have used a higher end bearing with better grease so they run smoother? I don't know that.. maybe why the King saw is so cheap.. anyone mechanical can just buy a DeWalt and when the bearings need done.. buy the upgraded ones and use your own high end grease like I've done.. 

 

Anyway, back on topic.. I'm taking my control box to a local electric motor shop this morning to have them look / tell me what Potentiometer will best suite my needs.. since the same part number offers two different watt Potentiometers.. with some luck they will hook me up with one.. (keeping business local if I can  ) Then maybe after I am done there I'll stop by my brothers sawmill and see if I can get some photos / videos for you all to see that operation..        I am not knocking  Dewalt or any brand of saw I have more Dewalt tools in my shop now than people buy in a life time.What I am saying is.If there is a known problem with a saw fix it. The saw will probably last a life time. 

 

[Scrappile]

I was curious what Ray at Seyco had to say about the bearings in a Seyco saw.  The instruction manual does not address any maintenance for them.  So I emailed and asked, this is his response:

"Hi Paul.

The bearings are classed as "permanently lubricated". My personal opinion is that is not a good classification when it comes to placing any bearing in a wood saw dust environment, however, I am not as much focused on re-greasing as I am on keeping the dust from accumulating on the bearings and in the area where they are more open to dust. Cleaning should be done some satisfactory way other than blowing with an air hose since that tends to actually blow the grease out. Use a brush or similar method is better.

Let me know if there are remaining questions regarding the bearings and care for them.

Thanks,

Ray Seymore
SEYCO, The Scroll Saw Specialists, INC."

I think this would applies to the Ex and probably the the DeWalt. 

 

[kmmcrafts]

1 hour ago, Scrappile said:

I was curious what Ray at Seyco had to say about the bearings in a Seyco saw.  The instruction manual does not address any maintenance for them.  So I emailed and asked, this is his response:

"Hi Paul.

The bearings are classed as "permanently lubricated". My personal opinion is that is not a good classification when it comes to placing any bearing in a wood saw dust environment, however, I am not as much focused on re-greasing as I am on keeping the dust from accumulating on the bearings and in the area where they are more open to dust. Cleaning should be done some satisfactory way other than blowing with an air hose since that tends to actually blow the grease out. Use a brush or similar method is better.

Let me know if there are remaining questions regarding the bearings and care for them.

Thanks,

Ray Seymore
SEYCO, The Scroll Saw Specialists, INC."

I think this would applies to the Ex and probably the the DeWalt. 

 

Yes, and this is where the Ex- type saw will last longer before needing bearing attention.. On a dewalt.. the sawdust falls through the hole in the table and lands directly onto the lower rocker assembly.. as well as the older Ex's.. but the newer Ex's have the little dust port.. that I would think even not hooked up to a collection system still will catch much of that dust before landing onto the bearings and rocker assembly..

On the saw like Hotshot's that has that shielded bearing.. a shielded bearing is just that.. shielded.. it's not really and open bearing like a DeWalt, Ex type saw.. but.. this bearing in encased into the arm and isn't necessarily exposed to a large amount of dust anyway at the back of the saw.. between the shield ( which by the way sort of acts as a shield to keep dirt etc out but not totally sealed either )  and the saw body / arm etc.. I really doubt much get's into the bearing if any anyway.. At the front of the Hawk.. where the dust is more than likely to get into a bearing.. Hawk used sealed bearings. 

To rebuild a Hawk saw's bearing I believe you'd need about $20 at best.. to replace the 4 bearings.. while a dewalt saw you need sleeves and bearings.. which run $175 to replace the 25 bearings and 25 sleeves.. I think if one had parts on hand etc.. one could do the job in about 30 min. on a Hawk.. Probably if you was real good and quick.. one could do the DeWalt in about 1-1/2  - 2 hours..

[Scrappile]

Only problem, that dust port on the Ex is normally removed right after the hold down thingy.  It is/was not a good or feasible setup.  I'm strongly becoming a believer that good dust collection is the best insurance.  It would save the bearing, the on/off switch that is often a problem and I don't know what else.  I know I am becoming one of those soapbox dust collection guys... now that I finally have it.

[kmmcrafts]

1 hour ago, Scrappile said:

Only problem, that dust port on the Ex is normally removed right after the hold down thingy.  It is/was not a good or feasible setup.  I'm strongly becoming a believer that good dust collection is the best insurance.  It would save the bearing, the on/off switch that is often a problem and I don't know what else.  I know I am becoming one of those soapbox dust collection guys... now that I finally have it.

Yeah, that dust doesn't do bearings and switches any good...not to mention ones health.. I wear a mask.. but still hate having that dust land all over all the other machines etc in the shop..

 

[kmmcrafts]

9 hours ago, Rolf said:

Kevin can you post a picture of the pot with part numbers on it or just the part numbers.

Hey Rolf, I must have missed this message.. The only numbers I could find on the pot was B1K made by Alpha... 

I went to my local electric motor shop and they said they don't mess with those things and didn't know much about it.. nor had much advise on what one to buy.. Those guys in this particular shop have been awesome over the years.. but this time they didn't seem to know or want to help.. but then.. I didn't get to talk to the main guy either as he is out for the week. I can snap a picture of it if you'd like.. though I'm not sure how much the camera would pick up and the numbers are just stamped on the back of it..  

[JOE_M]

can you give us all the specs you can on the motor?

[kmmcrafts]

That is stamped B1K and that last thing is not a n it's a ohm symbol I believe.. sort of look like a headphone icon.. LOL

[GrampaJim]

That is a 1K (1000) ohm pot.  Back in my day  any TV repair shop would be able to help.  If there are any small electronic manufacturers in your area they MIGHT be able to help.  If you are real brave and know how to solder electronics, a place like Digi-Key will have what you need for about a dollar or two.   

[kmmcrafts]

29 minutes ago, GrampaJim said:

That is a 1K (1000) ohm pot.  Back in my day  any TV repair shop would be able to help.  If there are any small electronic manufacturers in your area they MIGHT be able to help.  If you are real brave and know how to solder electronics, a place like Digi-Key will have what you need for about a dollar or two.   

I believe that is what this is.. and I also believe these are the same thing as used in guitars too.. probably my brother that owns a guitar making supply shop has one.. or my other brother that owns a guitar cab building shop might even have one, LOL... probably should have checked with them.. but I ordered one off ebay.. hopefully the one I ordered is what I need.. and yeah.. I can solder the leads.. I just needed the correct part.. LOL

[Rolf]

Like Grandpa Jim said it is just a 1 K ohm pot. And yes it is an OHM symbol. An easy item to replace.  Years ago I would have just walked down the hall at work where we had a stockroom full of all kinds of parts. All of it ended up being thrown away when when the space was "re-purposed" . It ripped my heart out.

Edited October 6, 2017 by Rolf

[stoney]

I guess I'm missing something in the conversation about wood dust and bearings.   If a scroll saw is used for wood cutting exclusively wood dust is not all that abrasive.   Now if the scroll saw is used for cutting metal or ceramic material that is of concern.   Just wondering has anyone actually had a bearing failure caused by sawdust infiltrating a bearings dust shield?   I have worked around a lot of woodworking equipment over my life and don't recall to many bearing failures caused by sawdust. 

Edited October 6, 2017 by stoney

[hotshot]

17 minutes ago, stoney said:

I guess I'm missing something in the conversation about wood dust and bearings.   If a scroll saw is used for wood cutting exclusively wood dust is not all that abrasive.   Now if the scroll saw is used for cutting metal or ceramic material that is of concern.   Just wondering has anyone actually had a bearing failure caused by sawdust infiltrating a bearings dust shield?   I have worked around a lot of woodworking equipment over my life and don't recall to many bearing failures caused by sawdust. 

Don't know what the cause was, but I had a bearing totally go to crap in my Rikon bandsaw, with probably less than 7 hours use.  With my more recent Hawk adventures, the bearings in the scroll saw arm were "gritty" and did not turn freely.  I used WD-40, and that seemed to do wonders, so in that case, the bearing were probably ok, just had dust hindering their normal operation.  There is a lot more abuse on the bearings that Kev and Rolf were dealing with.

[kmmcrafts]

49 minutes ago, stoney said:

I guess I'm missing something in the conversation about wood dust and bearings.   If a scroll saw is used for wood cutting exclusively wood dust is not all that abrasive.   Now if the scroll saw is used for cutting metal or ceramic material that is of concern.   Just wondering has anyone actually had a bearing failure caused by sawdust infiltrating a bearings dust shield?   I have worked around a lot of woodworking equipment over my life and don't recall to many bearing failures caused by sawdust. 

While I also have been around wood equipment most all my life and have the same experience as you with the larger equipment.. that said though.. most of the larger equipment also had much larger bearing as well as sealed bearings.. 

As for the saws with open bearings.. They are very small bearings.. and not really much room for much grease... My issue with the DeWalt is I believe that the real fine dust gets into the bearings and soak up any of the liquid portion of the grease.. every time I rebuild that saw.. when i pull out the bearings / sleeves.. there is sawdust and grease mixture which created a real thick dried out paste almost so to speak.. I've taken the front portion of the saw apart several times in the 10 years I've owned it.. while I've only taken the back portion apart only once.. and never even replaced the bearings.. just cleaned them up and added synthetic grease.. Now the saw is finally getting noisy in the back part of the saw so it needs to be taken apart.. I'm hoping to get by with it at least through the busy part of this year.. It's quite a job ( not horrible but time consuming ) to do on these..  

[kmmcrafts]

38 minutes ago, hotshot said:

Don't know what the cause was, but I had a bearing totally go to crap in my Rikon bandsaw, with probably less than 7 hours use.  With my more recent Hawk adventures, the bearings in the scroll saw arm were "gritty" and did not turn freely.  I used WD-40, and that seemed to do wonders, so in that case, the bearing were probably ok, just had dust hindering their normal operation.  There is a lot more abuse on the bearings that Kev and Rolf were dealing with.

I bought a new Grizzly bandsaw last year.. I've only made 4 simple bandsaw boxes and the guide bearings are already gritty and stiff.. they are also sealed bearings.. and for what it's worth.. the bad ones are the lower ones where all that sawdust lands.. I did pop the seals out and soaked them with wd-40 cleaned them up and re=greased them.. been working fine since then.. but really haven't used it much.. probably about the same amount as those 4 boxes is all.. but still still smooth running.. I question the grease they use from those China made bearings, LOL 

 

[Rolf]

Are the guide bearings set correctly?(had to ask) they should only come into play when the blade is deflected not continuously. I just bought a bunch of cheap bearings for the fidget spinner project and it looks like they were dipped into a warm liquid grease bath and then sealed It took a bit of effort to get all of the grease out. 

[kmmcrafts]

20 minutes ago, Rolf said:

Are the guide bearings set correctly?(had to ask) they should only come into play when the blade is deflected not continuously. I just bought a bunch of cheap bearings for the fidget spinner project and it looks like they were dipped into a warm liquid grease bath and then sealed It took a bit of effort to get all of the grease out. 

Yes the bearings do not spin while the saw is running.. 

[Scrappile]

Spray can of brake cleaner will take the old grease out.

[Rolf]

That is what I used along with compressed air. Seems like the brake cleaner is the only decent solvent left.

 

[Jim McDonald]

On ‎10‎/‎3‎/‎2017 at 8:59 PM, GrampaJim said:

That is a 1K (1000) ohm pot.  Back in my day  any TV repair shop would be able to help.  If there are any small electronic manufacturers in your area they MIGHT be able to help.  If you are real brave and know how to solder electronics, a place like Digi-Key will have what you need for about a dollar or two.   

When you go to look for a new pot, there are two type--audio and linear.  That is most likely a linear pot.  When you get ready to resolder, use an ohmmeter to make sure the posts work in the same direction.  Most will work in either direction, but may be wired different internally.  Resistance will go up clockwise on some pots and down on others.  Best to doble check center to outside lead on both--on both sides of the pot.

[kmmcrafts]

30 minutes ago, Jim McDonald said:

When you go to look for a new pot, there are two type--audio and linear.  That is most likely a linear pot.  When you get ready to resolder, use an ohmmeter to make sure the posts work in the same direction.  Most will work in either direction, but may be wired different internally.  Resistance will go up clockwise on some pots and down on others.  Best to doble check center to outside lead on both--on both sides of the pot.

Thank you for the tip on the wiring.. I sort of wondered if they would all be the same..and I didn't think about using a meter to check.. good advice.. I did already order a pot on ebay.. just came in the mail today.. and yes I ordered the linear type....  haven't messed with it yet though.. today was break job day on the wife's van.. new hoses calipers rotors and of coarse pads..on all four corners.. If I can still move tomorrow ( getting too old to crawl around under the cars now days lol) I may mess with changing the pot.. though I do have another clock order to make so probably should do that first..

Edited October 8, 2017 by kmmcrafts

[Rolf]

Good points Jim, regarding direction and type. I used to fix all of my own audio gear and electronics. Had a collection of Sam's manuals. Now everything is mostly proprietary modular IC's .

Cheaper to buy new than repair even if you could get the parts. I Still love fixing stuff. 

My crawling around under cars, at least on my daily driver are over, too many years digging blue stone out of my back from crawling around under the car in rain or slush. I don't even do my own oil changes anymore. My 70 TVR is the exception but it is a toy.