Official Time Test - Hawk -vs- DeWalt

[kmmcrafts]

14 minutes ago, JTTHECLOCKMAN said:

Iggy here you go again and draw me back into this. I know of no one who scrolls like you do. You come here tell us all how many puzzles you cut per year and then proceed to tell us how many saws you go through per year because of this intense scrolling. You now come here and tell us of a test you did comparing a saw that you have had for what maybe 2 months as to what have you been scrolling on Dewalts for how many + years and you tell us that you can fairly tell what saw is faster in the long run. Every saw will have characteristics that apply to that saw. Nature of the beast or else they would be all the same price with different colors. You have to decide weather you want to use a true production saw such as the RBI or a entry level saw such as the Dewalt and continue to replace or maintain every year and maybe twice a year. Maybe this will even increase now that you have stepped up production. The Dewalt may scroll or cut faster on the straight line and with all the twists and turns you have to make with a puzzles your cuts do not need that true accuracy that some fret work requires thus the speed thing comes into play. If i read correctly you did not even use the same blade for both cuts. The steps to insert a blade on a Dewalt is more than an RBI so time loss there has to be a factor also. Again the more you use a saw you will get faster just in this department. The longer you use a saw the more you trust the turns and you learn the nuances of that saw. It takes longer than 2 months. So for you to tell everyone that your test is the tried and true runoff between the two saws is just not fair. To you at this particular time with the cutting time you have on the RBI it may work for you. Everyone does not cut like you. I have never heard anyone wondering what saw cuts faster. when you get into scrolling you sort of know right away it is a tedious hobby that requires patients and if you get the chance to saw on different saws in your life time you may find out some of those nuances. I know you are in a business and you are juggling many things. Happy for you because this is what you chose. No one is forcing you into doing these things. Enjoy while you are still young and can do these things. There was a time in my life when I scrolled to keep inventory up. When I had 6 store locations and was doing 8 shows a year, I chose to do that and have to say my RBI saws came through all that and still not a drop of maintenance needed except a tension lever. To me this was my test of saws.  

Again nothing disparaging against you or what you are doing but my original post pointed out what I thought are facts that I have found in my many years of doing this too. The decisions you will have to make pertain to you and your style of cutting. It does not apply for all. If you find 2 minutes per puzzles means that much then your question has answered itself. Just need to decide if that time saved is worth the price in saws. 

 

Again I want to step away from this because it makes people uncomfortable as I read others comments. I am not here to put down what you do but sometimes facts need to be brought into a conversation. I again wish you the very best of luck with your many ventures and wish you good health to continue forward. I am sure you will make alot of people happy when they purchase your products and seeing smiles on peoples faces makes it all worth it. Happy Scrolling.

Jt in all fairness.. He used the Pegas blade because it's a more aggressive faster cutting blade.. I also use Pegas in my Hawk and use FD-UR blades in my DeWalt.. If I use the same FD blade in my Hawk that I use in my deWlat.. I feel as though it's the different between a snail and a Turtle.. LOL.. so in reality he was 2 minutes slower with the Hawk using a faster cutting blade.. I realize this seems like comparing apples to oranges.. but if he was to do the same test with the same blade.. the Hawk is hands down a much slower cutting saw..

Speaking of slower cutting.. you mentioned in the other reply that you didn't see how one saw could be faster than another.. same motion up and down.. But in fact it's not the same motion on every saw.. and even you mentioned that in the same reply a few sentences below.. talking about the old Delta Q3 type saws with the C arm..

Now.. to be fair I too have been saying the Hawk is too slow for my type of cutting.. Not saying the Hawk is a poor choice of a saw at all by saying that.. just stating that it's too slow for my taste.. Awesome saw to do delicate fretwork etc with thin wood.. I too have been using my DeWalt for 10 years.. I also used my Hawk most of last year until the Holiday rush orders came... and I can say.. the Hawk is slower ( even with the more aggressive blades ) than the DeWalt.. Not in a production minded set here... but it goes along with what I've been saying for a long time.. Get off the expressway at 70mph for a days drive and go 30mph for a while.. you feel like you're barely moving.. I'm not worried about production.. I bored cutting sooo slow.. .. I think this is what Iggy means when he says he's not sure if he can live with the saw.. the production numbers are going to get done on either saw in a days work.. but is it more enjoyable to cut them at a faster rate that you are used to or.. slooooow it down and get bored with cutting like this.. 10 minuted longer at the end of every day isn't a huge deal IF you can stand cutting at the slower rate... 

   

[hotshot]

Gotta wonder if there isn't some Warrantee angle that could be played to get more miles out of the 788s.  On Amazon, it lists the warrantee for 3 years.  If you could burn through one per year, then send it in for warrantee repair, seems like you could get like 3 Dewalts for the price of one.  For this strategy, you would have to rely on a backup for some long stretches as I don't think these replacements would come quickly.

Edited January 16, 2018 by hotshot

[rjweb]

All I can say is wow, but I agree with iggy, if he needs to keep a schedule for his cutting and the Dewalt will help him then that the way to go. As far as iggy giving results of his findings I think that’s great for anyone looking to upgrade their saw, gives them an unbiased opinion, thx for your input Iggy and Kevin,

 RJ 

[OCtoolguy]

6 hours ago, kmmcrafts said:

Thanks, I had planned to look at that to see.. as the DeWalt doesn't really have an adjuster but the one screw that is at that pivot point can be loosened or tightened to your liking as well.. so I was going to look into doing that with my EX.. like I've said it's new and I've just set it up.. so I'll be fine tuning it to how I need it set up.. I think I'll love the saw once I get things dialed in..

 

I'm hoping that I feel the same way once I get used to my "almost" new Hegner.

Ray

 

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Kevin I own a Dewalt 788, a hegner 18" a rbi 220vs and a rbi 226vs I have cut on all of these and many others over the years. I have never set a clock next to cutting but from my experience and again MY EXPERIENCE  I see no difference. To make a blanket statement is just plain wrong. I said up and down motion are the same. The angle the blade enters material maybe different with the workings and construction of the arms. As I mentioned the old Delta C arms had a more aggressive cutting motion because of how the blades are fixed in the arms. The Dewalt ,Ex. and jets use a closer to the material and shorter arm  but still goes up and down. There are built in options to increase the angle the blade enters the wood such as the bottom clamp.  The RBI and others use the longer parallel arm system but still go up and down I believe it is the material you are cutting. Maybe the travel is longer on a RBI to make it slower. Then speed it up. Change blades do whatever to make up 2 minutes if that means the world. You production cutters are in a class by yourself. I have told you this I have been there but never once in my lifetime felt I had to go faster behind a scrollsaw. I too have cut for production but I do not like blanket statements. It is a personal thing as it is with you. You feel you are on a highway doing 25. I got it. get off the highway or get a faster car. 

As you and Iggy you have to make up your own minds and buy the saw that fits your need. You both now have experience with a couple of them do what makes you happy. I shared my experience and again I do not like blanket statements and he made one. as well as you are. In your mind the RBI is a slower cutting saw. Please leave me out of this for the best of this post. I stepped away because  production scrollers are in a class of their own. Have fun and scroll away and stop talking . Get busy time is money orders to be filled. Not sure what else you want me to say. I understood everything he said and I understand everything you are saying. But at least take my opinion into consideration too have been cutting for over 35 years. 

[SCROLLSAW703]

In agreement with jt, how many dewalts can ya buy with that 5300 minutes extra time it takes to cut them puzzles? parts? down time to fix them? 

I've spent my share of time on the Hawk saws. I will admit they may not cut as aggressive as the dewalts. Though I've never spent any time with a dewalt, hegner, or seyco, etc. 

There is nothing I cannot do on a Hawk. From 1/8" to 3" in depth. I use hardwood on all my projects. No. The BM 26 does not cut as fast, but is a perfectionist saw!!
It comes down to more than time. How well of a job of cutting do you want to do? What do you want your project to look like? That's the big question.

[Sycamore67]

I do not think that the use being discussed would qualify for warranty.  The 3 year limited warranty covers faulty materials and workmanship and normal wear.

The hard use being discussed would not be normal use but hard business use.

[kmmcrafts]

I think you people are missing the point... 

It's not about production numbers.. or at least for me it's not...

Like driving down the expressay at the speed limit and come upon a person doing 10 MPH under the speed limit.. do you pass them and get to work 30 seconds quicker or stay behind them.... You've been driving all day at 70mph.. that 60 MPH just seems real slow.. even though it's not a huge difference..

Ever cut a super dense wood and think you're never going to get it cut? Kind of the same principal.. going from a 788 to a slower cutting saw.. that's the point.. NOT a production number thing.. it's a personal preference thing..

 

 

  

[hotshot]

Kevin, I think it might be an impatience thing for you and me, but for Iggy, I think it is about the numbers.  Like you,  I'm not a production cutter, and may get impatient trying to make it through thick hard wood, but I'm not moving a lot of product, so losing sales doesn't play into this for me at least.  Iggy is able to sell a lot of product, so it makes sense that creating these as fast and cheap as he can makes sense.  So, for Iggy, time is money, and he has to find the balance that works best for him. 

On the note of cost effectiveness, in production mode, I wonder if the blades last longer in the Hawk, because the longer stroke uses more of the blade.  Compared to the cost/profit of the puzzles, the cost of blades may be nominal, I don't know.  So going a little further down that road, would the time saved by using expensive "Super Sharps" actually be more cost effective because it get's more puzzles out the door?  Staying with that line of thinking, maybe the best combination is a DW/EX paired with the "Super Sharps."

Or maybe an EX tuned for more aggression than the 788, with Supersharps.  

Iggy, if you lived close, I would kick the agression up on the EX, buy you some super sharps for fun, and let you test drive it.  

Why I love this conversation, and believe it is important:  We usually judge saws based on things like durability, depth of cut, ease of blade changes, and blade travel is usually seen as a bad thing.  It is kind of nice to turn this on it's head, and in light of different circumstances and needs, and look at the saws in terms of productivity for this specific project type and see how that affects overall costs.  The game would change considerably if the project type was fretwork, thick puzzle boxes, or traditional puzzles cut on thin baltic birch.  

Despite the tension in the conversation, I think the over all conversation is awesome!

--------Randy

Edited January 17, 2018 by hotshot

[kmmcrafts]

59 minutes ago, hotshot said:

Kevin, I think it might be a preference thing for you and me, but for Iggy, I think it is about the numbers.  Like you,  I'm not a production cutter, and may get impatient trying to make it through thick hard wood, but it is not about money, it's about impatience.  For me personally, the amounts of money I make in this hobby is not enough to drive me (If I was pulling in the amount Iggy is, I might be highly motivated).  But for Iggy, time is money, so he has to find the balance that works best for him.  I think Iggy enjoys production cutting and moving product, so he enjoys that aspect of the hobby which is good.  We all have different things about this hobby that we enjoy and focus on, so it is more than OK if he enjoys a different aspect of the hobby than we do.

On the note of cost effectiveness, in production mode, I wonder if the blades last longer in the Hawk, because the longer stroke uses more of the blade.  Compared to the cost/profit of the puzzles, the cost of blades may be nominal, I don't know.  Then another angle on this, would the time saved by using the much more expensive "Super Sharps" actually be more cost effective because he is able to get more puzzles out the door?  With that style of thinking, maybe the best combination is a DW/EX paired with the "Super Sharps."

Or maybe an EX tuned for more aggression that the 788, with Supersharps.  

Iggy, if you lived close, I would kick the agression up on the EX, buy you some super sharps for fun, and let you test drive it.  

--------Randy

For me the blades don't seem to last nearly as long on the Hawk.. but possibly due to being impatient and pushing the wood through too fast...

 

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Amazing, Now blades do not last as long in an RBI saw as opposed to a Dewalt. I have always heard that Dewalts break blades faster but again I digress. Iggy made the point now that he bought the RBI saw he seems to think it cuts slower than his Dewalt and Kevin seems to agree too. Fine will leave that alone. It was beat with a dead horse. But I still believe this is a personal thing and no one who is in the market for a saw should base their decisions on speed of cutting alone. So many factors go into speed of cutting as well as how well a saw performs. The type of blade used, the material being cut, the speed of the saw, the famirality of the saw and so on. Performance of a saw can depend on ease of use., ease of changing blades, tools needed to change blades, vibration of saw when cutting, ease of clamps being used, amount of maintenance needed to keep saw running, breakage and time lost for repairs all go into choosing them. 

Iggy set up a test clock and cut 2 puzzles side by side and timed it and jump to the conclusion that the Dewalt cuts faster and can save time. Even if you are in production mode the time difference between saws is so hard to judge. Again I go back to they all do the same thing and that is go up and down. Drop a blade, have a blade break while cutting, have a phone call, need to go to the bathroom, changing blades on each saw may require more effort as it does with Dewalt over RBI, breakage of the saw and down for maintenance, all are factors that can throw that time schedule right out the door. What he should have said is he tried the RBI but still likes his Dewalt and leave it at that. The speed thing is not a far comparison as I mentioned to like or dislike a saw. Things can be done to make a saw cut faster. But when comparing to a saw where you have more cutting time on will always get skewed because yes muscle memory is a thing and does play a part.

I believe that Iggy and Kevin need to sell off the RBI saws and get a couple extra Dewalts to have as backups. They are a good saw but for that kind of abuse are not designed for. They are priced as a midlevel saw and made to do just that. When doing production work as those 2 are doing they need a more robust tool and there are those with the higher price tags out there and they are priced higher for a reason. I believe the only true way to step up production is to either add manpower, add time behind the saw, or source out some of the operation. I knew a husband and wife who actually went into this as a business when craft shows were a hot item. They ran older RBI saws, the ones with the barrel clamps, they hired a kid to do all their sanding for them and they did the dimensioning of the wood and the scrolling. Worked very well for them. They moved and I have lost touch with them. 

This is all of my opinion to this matter. It is a topic of conversation and maybe helpful and maybe just that a conversation. I am not in any way putting down what others are doing but lets throw in all the facts too.  It is good to see there are those that can make a go of it doing this and is encouraging for others who are reading. Hope others jump in and have fun. Thanks Randy for posting your reply too. 

Edited January 17, 2018 by JTTHECLOCKMAN

[Iguanadon]

3 hours ago, kmmcrafts said:

For me the blades don't seem to last nearly as long on the Hawk.. but possibly due to being impatient and pushing the wood through too fast...

 

Same here.  Was surprised how frequently having to change blades with the Hawk.

[kmmcrafts]

3 hours ago, JTTHECLOCKMAN said:

Amazing, Now blades do not last as long in an RBI saw as opposed to a Dewalt. I have always heard that Dewalts break blades faster but again I digress. Iggy made the point now that he bought the RBI saw he seems to think it cuts slower than his Dewalt and Kevin seems to agree too. Fine will leave that alone. It was beat with a dead horse. But I still believe this is a personal thing and no one who is in the market for a saw should base their decisions on speed of cutting alone. So many factors go into speed of cutting as well as how well a saw performs. The type of blade used, the material being cut, the speed of the saw, the famirality of the saw and so on. Performance of a saw can depend on ease of use., ease of changing blades, tools needed to change blades, vibration of saw when cutting, ease of clamps being used, amount of maintenance needed to keep saw running, breakage and time lost for repairs all go into choosing them. 

Iggy set up a test clock and cut 2 puzzles side by side and timed it and jump to the conclusion that the Dewalt cuts faster and can save time. Even if you are in production mode the time difference between saws is so hard to judge. Again I go back to they all do the same thing and that is go up and down. Drop a blade, have a blade break while cutting, have a phone call, need to go to the bathroom, changing blades on each saw may require more effort as it does with Dewalt over RBI, breakage of the saw and down for maintenance, all are factors that can throw that time schedule right out the door. What he should have said is he tried the RBI but still likes his Dewalt and leave it at that. The speed thing is not a far comparison as I mentioned to like or dislike a saw. Things can be done to make a saw cut faster. But when comparing to a saw where you have more cutting time on will always get skewed because yes muscle memory is a thing and does play a part.

I believe that Iggy and Kevin need to sell off the RBI saws and get a couple extra Dewalts to have as backups. They are a good saw but for that kind of abuse are not designed for. They are priced as a midlevel saw and made to do just that. When doing production work as those 2 are doing they need a more robust tool and there are those with the higher price tags out there and they are priced higher for a reason. I believe the only true way to step up production is to either add manpower, add time behind the saw, or source out some of the operation. I knew a husband and wife who actually went into this as a business when craft shows were a hot item. They ran older RBI saws, the ones with the barrel clamps, they hired a kid to do all their sanding for them and they did the dimensioning of the wood and the scrolling. Worked very well for them. They moved and I have lost touch with them. 

This is all of my opinion to this matter. It is a topic of conversation and maybe helpful and maybe just that a conversation. I am not in any way putting down what others are doing but lets throw in all the facts too.  It is good to see there are those that can make a go of it doing this and is encouraging for others who are reading. Hope others jump in and have fun. Thanks Randy for posting your reply too. 

What if I did a video using the same blade.. same board.. on the Hawk and DeWalt saw.. set a timer for 30 - 60 seconds cut a straight line and measure the distance of cut for each saw.. would that be a fair comparison for you to believe that one saw will cut faster over the other saw? Could even do a comparison of the Hawk in the more aggressive blade position and also record the distance.. Would maybe be a good test to try.. I'd do it if it was warmer out.. temps supposed to warm up over the next few days.. maybe I'll video several different testing methods.. or the video expert ( Iggy ) could do this if he has time..   

[hotshot]

57 minutes ago, kmmcrafts said:

What if I did a video using the same blade.. same board.. on the Hawk and DeWalt saw.. set a timer for 30 - 60 seconds cut a straight line and measure the distance of cut for each saw.. would that be a fair comparison for you to believe that one saw will cut faster over the other saw? Could even do a comparison of the Hawk in the more aggressive blade position and also record the distance.. Would maybe be a good test to try.. I'd do it if it was warmer out.. temps supposed to warm up over the next few days.. maybe I'll video several different testing methods.. or the video expert ( Iggy ) could do this if he has time..   

It makes sense to me that the Dewalt would cut faster because the blade moves forward significantly on the down stroke (abeit staying perpendicular to the table). So slamming the blade into the wood seems like it would create a more aggressive cut.

But tests are always fun.  There is a video on the Pegas site where they do a hands off test comparing their blades to the Mach blades.  Their setup is not complex, but I think it uses a weight to pull the board forward.  http://www.scies.ch/products-in-use.html.   It looks like a simple sled, with a pulley and weight hanging off the back would work. Of course, the Hawk would need to have the blade perpendicular to be valid.

I think what would be very interesting is how each saw would do on thinner wood.

Edited January 17, 2018 by hotshot

[Rolf]

I am going to wade in here.  

53 minutes ago, kmmcrafts said:

What if I did a video using the same blade.. same board.. on the Hawk and DeWalt saw.. set a timer for 30 - 60 seconds cut a straight line and measure the distance of cut for each saw.. would that be a fair comparison for you to believe that one saw will cut faster over the other saw? Could even do a comparison of the Hawk in the more aggressive blade position and also record the distance.. Would maybe be a good test to try.. I'd do it if it was warmer out.. temps supposed to warm up over the next few days.. maybe I'll video several different testing methods.. or the video expert ( Iggy ) could do this if he has time..   

To make that totally fair you would need to rig something to push the wood in with the same force other than you.  My other question was going to be if you had the Hawk in its aggressive cut setting. I remember the Dewalt having a fair amount of front back motion.. Regarding blade life that is an interesting question. I have my Hawk blade setting as vertical a possible, that is one of the reasons I bought it.  In thicker wood that will not clear out the sawdust as well as it would in the aggressive setting. Generating more heat which we all know the blades don't like. 

An interesting discussion keep it going. I went from a very aggressive saw the Delta SS350 to my Hawk G4 in 2005. I bought it for very specific reasons, mainly the vertical cut. I do go into production mode a couple of times a year and a faster more aggressive saw would not work for me. 

Iggy when you compare the saws side by side using the same blade in each would be a fairer comparison. Also time the actual cut time not the overall time also.

As was said you are used to going from hole to hole after a zillion hours on the Dewalt you may not have the same comfort level on the Hawk yet. Just a thought.

Randy what brand are the super sharps.?

 

Edited January 17, 2018 by Rolf

[hotshot]

1 hour ago, Rolf said:

 

Randy what brand are the super sharps.?

 

These are the "PS Wood Super Sharps".  I don't know a lot about them except they are super expensive (about $1/blade at Woodcraft).  Another member on this forum did some informal testing and found these the fastest cutting for the scenario he did.  

I've had projects where I was having a hard time getting through a piece, and really having to push hard to get it to cut at all.  I would have probably given a few dollars to ease that pain.  If these are indeed more aggressive/sharper, I suspect they would have been marginally faster, but still painful.  Just for the fun of it, I might pick me up a package next time I'm in woodcraft just to have around the next time I struggle with a piece.

 

Edited January 17, 2018 by hotshot

[Sycamore67]

I did the test comparing the straight line cutting of various blades on my Hegner.  I made a spring loaded device to keep the force on the board very similar. It was a simple device that worked well. I also did repeated tests and averaged the results.  For the test I used 1.5" Red Oak.

The PS Woods Super Sharps were way better than the other blades. While I would not use them for normal thickness work.  The work very well on thick, hard woods for compound cuts. For me, I would spend the extra $$ for compound cuts.

[SCROLLSAW703]

Agreed. The more vertically compared to horizontally your blade is set, does have a bearing on blade life, speed of cut, life of the saw, even if won't cut 70 mph. 

One of the MAIN reasons I invested in my 26 was not to OUTRUN traffic, but to OUTDO the traffic. And, there is a difference, by all means! 

I've got my 26 set at such a tight vertical setting, I can make a complete 0* radi, & not cut anything more than the size of the blade, & still have adjustment to go. Which brings me to my next point. NO! as said! most of us know blades hate HEAT! This is where issues begin. Hard wood, soft wood, whatever, that blade has to dispose of the dust somehow. I've tried 70 mph blades down to speed limit blades. After so long, that blade is goin' to bust! 

This is, imo, where BLADE SPEED comes in. In 26 years of scrollin' & 6 saws, I'm yet to run across a project the variable speed NEEDS to run at 100%. This is where the Hawk excels. Not only in adjustments, but perfection, as I've said before. Had I've known Mr. Scott was lookin' for a saw that runs on nitrous, I'd of never suggested The Hawk to him. EVERY SINGLE SAW MADE is going to cut different, run different, sound different, adjust different. 

Let me put this kinda on "my" terms, ok, if you'll allow me. I drove OTR 35 years, been around trucks since I was old enough to talk like a driver. (damn young) You can go to a truck dealership, I don't care where, & look at the front of the ride. Just bcause it says Peterbilt, Kenworth, International, Freightshaker, whatever on the hood, that don't mean that's what's under that 1000 lb piece of fiberglass. It may Cat, it may Detroit, it may be Cumapart, or even somethin else. Lookin' further back, the trannies ain't built by Pete or whoever, nor is anything else, BUT, in order to make that shiny Pete run 75 mph, do you know how? do you know how to adjust brakes? on & on! Most likely not! Without LEARNING THE RIDE FIRST. KM, I can put you in a ride OFF the lot that you can't say enough bad words to keep up with traffic, but after you learn to shift, stop, & I teach you some adjustments you didn't know existed, you'll get better fuel mileage, tires last longer, & you'll grin instead of cuss. And here's the best part. Everybody else ain't goin' faster, brother, you just learned a few things about the machine you're sittin' in the pilot seat of!

So see, if you just slow down long enough to learn, you can cut just as fast, just as easy, without frustration. My apologies for steppin' over the line.

 

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Kevin I do not care about the speed. I use my RBI saw and love it and will defend it against any saw on the market. If you want to do speed tests so many things need to be the same. Same speed, same blade, same table top resistance, same weight ratio if you are setting up pulling like someone suggested. same wood density, and probably more things.

The thing about blades not lasting as long with one saw compared to another is another mindboggling thing to me. I can not wrap my head around you 2 guys and your findings. Let me take a 10 inch Freud tablesaw blade and put it on a Delta saw and the same blade and put it on a jet or a Sawstop saw and tell someone that one saw wears the blade faster they would laugh their A-- off. The same goes for a scrollsaw blade. The teeth contact the wood the same amount of times unless there is a drastic difference in distance of arm travel if all elements are equal as listed above. Unless you drastically adjust the angle of cutting then that is a factor.I believe all this is a mind thing with you 2. I do believe different saws do have different blade travel lengths. Longer means more teeth cut thus lasting longer as opposed to shorter travel because the same teeth have to do more work to cut the same. Now if you can prove this then you have something worth taking note of. I do not have all the specs on each saw. Some saws you can vary the length of the blade by the amount of blade you have sticking in a clamp. That can affect blade travel distance too. My point here this is not a scientific study that will carry any weight at least not with me. But knock your socks off and have at it.  

Edited January 18, 2018 by JTTHECLOCKMAN

[Lucky2]

It's just not worth the bother of posting my real intended reply, there's just to many people missing the point. I had it typed, but after reading a few more replies I deleted it.

Len

Edited January 18, 2018 by Lucky2
because of pig-headedness by members

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

7 hours ago, Lucky2 said:

It's just not worth the bother of posting my real intended reply, there's just to many people missing the point. I had it typed, but after reading a few more replies I deleted it.

Len

Len do not be afraid to jump in. It is not anything here that  is gospel. I probably took Iggy's original posting and took it down a different path but that is what we do. Maybe I am or maybe I did miss the entire point. I just could not and still can not see the justification of speed when scrolling anything. I understand all the desires to meet deadlines and order numbers and quantity numbers but they are just numbers. No one is holding a gun to these guys heads telling them to do it or else.  So many factors go into doing tests against saws. If someone knows of tests like this that have been done against the top brand names I would be interested in reading. I posted this question on another forum trying to get outside info because I have never seen testing like this. Come on in and play. No right or wrong answers. 

[Sycamore67]

I think for most of us speed is not important.  The only reason I did a cutting test on thick wood is because I was doing compound cut ornaments and was looking for a better blade.  Doing any proper test with meaningful results given all the variables would be way beyond my capability and desire to perform.  My test was  gave me the answers I needed.  Would it be applicable on a different saw....who knows.  

I guess if someone is cutting 1600 similar type puzzles it might be important but also how well the blade allows turning, how long the blade lasts, the effect on my hands, etc, etc, etc.......   This is why the debate on blades, saws, aggressiveness of the saws will be just that.

 

[hotshot]

I loved the speed test.  Would love to see you do a variation where you test longevity.

 

Edited January 18, 2018 by hotshot

[Sycamore67]

I would also love to see a longevity test and would like to see the test procedure.  Trying to determine an end point will be difficult. To be meaningful you need to measure things accurately.  It is so difficult to design an experiment like this keeping all variables constant except one.  

 

[kmmcrafts]

I don't know how one would do such test.. certainly would be a pretty complex test..

For ME.. cutting ornaments I can stack cut 5 high at a time.. I cut out about 15 -20 ornaments with one blade on the 788.. and that same thing on the Hawk.. is about half that many.. same with cutting out clocks.. I can cut ( depending upon the clock of coarse but average) 1 clock sometimes partway through another with one blade.. but on the Hawk.. most times I'm changing the blade near the finishing of just one clock..  but this ( as I said before ) could be me pushing the wood too hard on the Hawks as they aren't as aggressive.. someone that cuts at a leisurely rate.. may get many more miles on a blade..