Trouble Cutting and Sanding

[Sambo19]

I am not sure what type of finished quality I should expect after scroll sawing.  I sand the faces of the wood prior to attaching the pattern, my problem is in the cuts.  I think my technique is pretty bad, I get tons of jagged edges and wavy cuts while I try to get back on the line and inevitably end up off the other side.  Then I spend way too much time sanding it all down for my taste and then when I think it looks fine, I stain it and boom, tons of ugly little marks jump out.

Can you all help me understand how finished a cut should be or could be if I got better?  Are these artifacts normal or is my technique just that bad?

Is there an easier way to sand off my mistakes?  I have an oscillating drum sander, but it never seems to fit in the areas where I tend to mess up.

I attached a picture of a Humming Bird scroll saw puzzle type thing (Big Book Of Scroll Saw Woodworking, Page 30), this is freshly cut with no additional sanding beyond my orbital sander prior to attaching the pattern. 

I was unable to get good pictures of all the marks I am talking about, and some of the bad ones only show up a little, but I think you get the idea.  If I stained it you would clearly see every single one LoL.  Honestly sanding all the surface areas of these cuts is killing the fun times, multiplied by 3 different grits.

I can knock off the back fuzzies but it's a pain and I risk break stuff, I read that a reverse tooth blade might help with that, thoughts?

 

https://imgur.com/a/WEptl

There should be 3 pictures in this album, I'm still learning this internetz stuff.

 

Any help, tips, criticisms or guidance would be very appreciated, I have my eye on some more complicated stuff, but there is no way I can try those until I minimize sanding.

 

I blame Amazing Kevin for making me want to Scroll projects I have no business Scrolling  http://www.scrollsawvillage.com/profile/1607-amazingkevin/

Edited January 22, 2018 by Sam5377

[trackman]

Just looks like you need more practice cutting. A mop sander will take the fuzzies off. Just have to go at it easy. When I first started I spent about as much time fixing my opps as I did cutting.  Now touch up with sanding mop done. Don’t give up!!  Write date on your project and compare your cutting in a few months. 

[Sambo19]

Can you recommend a mop to me, I have one but it seems to inflexible to get in these tight curves?  I am using it on a drill press if that makes a difference.

 

Thanks for your feedback, I hope my techniques in turning during cuts improves.

[Rockytime]

Have you tried a Dremel on the tight spots?

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Practice will cure your cutting problems. Sand the back with some 220 grit sandpaper after cutting or try using reverse tooth blades. These blades have a small amount of teeth that face upward and cut the backside as you cut. I use them all the time. Does not elliminate all fuzzies but many of it. Use better blades. Flying Dutchman and Pegasus blades best on the market. That wood looks too delicate for puzzle work and that pattern looks too delicate for a puzzle Should never ever ever ever be a need to sand in any fret work holes after it is cut. If you go off line when cutting do a gradual steer back on line and leave it be. Once you take the pattern off the wood no one will ever know you went off line. Do not be so hard on yourself and enjoy the hobby. I always sand both front and back with 220 grit paper before I cut. I use blue or purple painters tape under the pattern. Always easier to take off than trying to sand glue residue off. Purple is a lighter tack and used for more delicate work. The key when using painters tape is not to let the project sit too long. the longer the tape stays on the harder it gets to take off. Good luck and have fun.

[SCROLLSAW703]

most folks, & I say this because I teach scrolling as well, have a fantasy in their mind that they can just sit down to the scroll saw & have an instant creation. My sincere apologies, but it don't work that way. At least it didn't in my world. It's taken me 26 years to get to where I am now, & I'm STILL learnin'. 

First off, it sounds to me like you're tryin' to get in a hurry with your feed rate into the the blade. Regardless of blade speed, the blade is only goin' to cut so fast. It's like drivin' a car. Ya speed up in the straight aways, slow down in the curves & tight spots. 

sand all your project wood to 220 grit with a palm sander if possible. Reason I have found is the 220 gets all the defects out of the wood that are noticeable, & a palm sander is not as rough on the wood surface as other sanders. 

Put your tape on, then the project. drill entry holes & begin cutting. Use a blade you're comfortable with. You'll find it easier to stay on the cut line, & do a better job. In turn, less sanding. hope this helps. God bless!

 

[dgman]

You have gotten some great advice so far. As already mentioned, it takes practice. I too am a scroll saw instructor. I start my students off using pine as it is cheap and easy to cut. But you will never get a smooth cut edge without sanding. Also if you stain it, it will come out very blotchy. 99% of my project are cut from hardwoods. With proper cutting techniques, you should never have to sand your edges. Especially with hardwoods. Woods like Maple, Cherry and Walnut come out with perfectly smooth edges that don't need sanding if you don't make any mistakes! 

My advice to you is keep using pine for practice. Once you have some experience under your belt, start using some hardwoods. But, practice, practice, practice!

[spirithorse]

Hi, Sam,

Looking at the pics, I think you are being too hard on yourself.
The fuzzies on your puzzle can easily be sanded off by hand, with a palm sander or with a mop sander.
The project definitely isn't too fragile like lots of fretwork can be.
The arrows on the last photo look like you must have let the wood come off the table surface and the blade
gouged the wood.
Other than that, I think the advise on some reverse tooth blades may help a lot with a steady feed rate into the blade.

God Bless! Spirithorse

[Sycamore67]

Others are correct....slow down and take your time.  Scrolling takes practice and you will get better with time.

[NC Scroller]

For a newbie there is nothing to be ashamed of.  We have all been there. Practice practice practice will cure 90%. Switching to a reverse tooth blade will help with a lot of your fuzzies. For sanding off fuzzies I like one of these. http://www.woodworkingshop.com/product/fs36240/

[fredfret]

Great job for a new scroller! As others have said "slow down" and try to keep a steady speed (feed rate) on curves with no stopping this causes flat spots. The fuzzies are easly removed with a sanding spounge. Keep practicing and welcome to the forum.

Fredfret

Wichita, Ks

[meflick]

I can't give you any advice better then what the experts above already have.  I just wanted to give you some encouragement from someone who was a newbie not that long ago. One thing I still have to "think" about is not to "push" the wood - let the blade do the work. Also, reverse tooth blades are definitely worth the investment.  Another good wood to work with is poplar. Good luck and keep on working with your saw.

[Bill WIlson]

Echoing what other have said, it takes practice to learn to follow the line.  For some, this comes more quickly than others, but we've all struggled with it.  If you wander away from the line, try not to make sudden corrections.  Those turn out to be the most noticeable of the little bumps on the edges. 

Some scroll saw blades follow the line better than others.  Check your blade for drift by trying to follow a straight line, on a test piece.  Sit directly in front of the saw and push the wood straight into the blade.  If you find that the blade has a tendency to pull to one side, such that you need to compensate by pushing the piece across the table at a slight angle to get it to follow the line, that's normal for some blades.   It is a symptom of the way they are manufactured.  The simplest remedy for this is to move your chair (or stand) slightly off to the side, so that you are not feeding the wood directly into the front of the blade (remember that angle your test piece was at to get the blade to follow the line?).  This technique will trick your eye into thinking you are pushing straight, but you will have the piece canted slightly and the blade will tend to follow the line better. 

My experience has been that trying to sand the edges of these cuts smooth is a losing proposition.  It's tedious, time consuming and not very effective.  The time is better spent in practice, which will help you follow the line better.  That said, even veteran scrollers will wander off the line.  Just remember, that often, once you remove the pattern, these deviations may not be all that noticeable.  You will be your own worst critic, but don't look for perfection.  Find a balance that allows you to enjoy the hobby.  That's what you are doing it for in the first place anyway, right?

Good luck and have fun making sawdust!

[RangerJay]

Time and practice mean a lot - with both you will find yourself becoming more relaxed at the saw (a big deal), you will become adept at picking the right blade for the job, you will know what issues to look for if you're not getting the outcome you want, you will recognize there is a moving sweet spot between saw speed and project feed - you will ultimately find a comfortable flow to your cutting that will give you what you want - I know there is more - lots more - but the point is that you are in a learning curve - we've all been through it ....

I'd also agree that you'd find a dremel tool handy - no matter how great you get - you will always find imperfections that you need to deal with - the dremel sanding drums and small carving burrs are always at the ready on my bench - they will do quick work of the imperfections you have shown in your photos.

 

Jay

[Scrappile]

Welcome to the forum.  You have lots of good advice so far and the only things I might add is make sure you have proper blade tension.  Too little and the blade will wonder.  You should hear a high pitch "ping" when you pluck the blade.  And dull or poor quality blades will also make it harder to control you cut.

What you has shown us not bad at all, keep at it and it will keep getting better.

Edited January 23, 2018 by Scrappile

[Doug]

Sam

Here is the sanding mop I use.

http://www.woodworkingshop.com/product/fs36320/

In addition to the mop you will also need the mandrel for your drill.  I would use this only with a drill press and change the speed to the slowest or next to slowest speed.  You do not want to use a sanding mop at the same speed you do drilling.  At drilling speed you will be amazed at how a piece of wood can be taken out of your hand and how far it can be thrown.

[amazingkevin]

On 1/21/2018 at 8:59 PM, Sam5377 said:

I am not sure what type of finished quality I should expect after scroll sawing.  I sand the faces of the wood prior to attaching the pattern, my problem is in the cuts.  I think my technique is pretty bad, I get tons of jagged edges and wavy cuts while I try to get back on the line and inevitably end up off the other side.  Then I spend way too much time sanding it all down for my taste and then when I think it looks fine, I stain it and boom, tons of ugly little marks jump out.

Can you all help me understand how finished a cut should be or could be if I got better?  Are these artifacts normal or is my technique just that bad?

Is there an easier way to sand off my mistakes?  I have an oscillating drum sander, but it never seems to fit in the areas where I tend to mess up.

I attached a picture of a Humming Bird scroll saw puzzle type thing (Big Book Of Scroll Saw Woodworking, Page 30), this is freshly cut with no additional sanding beyond my orbital sander prior to attaching the pattern. 

I was unable to get good pictures of all the marks I am talking about, and some of the bad ones only show up a little, but I think you get the idea.  If I stained it you would clearly see every single one LoL.  Honestly sanding all the surface areas of these cuts is killing the fun times, multiplied by 3 different grits.

I can knock off the back fuzzies but it's a pain and I risk break stuff, I read that a reverse tooth blade might help with that, thoughts?

 

https://imgur.com/a/WEptl

There should be 3 pictures in this album, I'm still learning this internetz stuff.

 

Any help, tips, criticisms or guidance would be very appreciated, I have my eye on some more complicated stuff, but there is no way I can try those until I minimize sanding.

 

I blame Amazing Kevin for making me want to Scroll projects I have no business Scrolling  http://www.scrollsawvillage.com/profile/1607-amazingkevin/

Your doing great!!!!!!!!!great blade control.Pefect curves,and very straight lines.Your boo boo's are behind you now!Your work is much better than my beginning days!Your a born natural scroller!!!!!!!!!Keep on keepin on!!!!!Keep posting your great work!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Sambo19]

Thanks everyone for the great feedback!

[Sambo19]

On 1/23/2018 at 7:54 PM, amazingkevin said:

Your doing great!!!!!!!!!great blade control.Pefect curves,and very straight lines.Your boo boo's are behind you now!Your work is much better than my beginning days!Your a born natural scroller!!!!!!!!!Keep on keepin on!!!!!Keep posting your great work!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks Kevin, I have it sanded to where I am happy with it now, would you recommend wiping it down with a wet cloth or alcohol then sand again, or just go right on to dipping in danish oil?

[Rockytime]

This is what I have been using. I first used it on the drill press but have found I like it best on my lathe. Cheeeep too.

[Sambo19]

51 minutes ago, Rockytime said:

This is what I have been using. I first used it on the drill press but have found I like it best on my lathe. Cheeeep too.

Wow That's cool, and it looks soft enough to get into those weird curves.

Thanks!

[Bill WIlson]

13 hours ago, Rockytime said:

This is what I have been using. I first used it on the drill press but have found I like it best on my lathe. Cheeeep too.

Dremel makes a miniature version of that, which works well for removing fuzzies from the back of very fine and delicately detailed fretwork.  They don't last very long, so if you can remove the worst of them with sandpaper or even a propane torch (insert obligatory safety Public Service Announcement here), they work great for a final clean up.

[Bill WIlson]

15 hours ago, Sam5377 said:

Thanks Kevin, I have it sanded to where I am happy with it now, would you recommend wiping it down with a wet cloth or alcohol then sand again, or just go right on to dipping in danish oil?

Not Kevin, but will add my $.02. 

Depends on what you are wiping it down for.  If it's just to remove sanding dust, I would suggest vacuuming it first.  This removes most of the dust.  Taking it outside and blowing it off with compressed air works as well, but you want to avoid doing it in the shop, because you are just introducing a lot of fine dust into the air that you could do without.

Wiping it off with alcohol or mineral spirits (MS) works to remove the last remnants of dust and gives you a brief glimpse at what the wood may look like with a clear finish applied.  This is good to make sure you've removed all surface defects/scratches and any glue squeeze out.  Alcohol will flash off quicker than the MS and doesn't smell as much.  Wear gloves though, because all of these solvents contain nasty stuff you don't want to absorb into your system, through your skin.  I would recommend against using water, because it may raise the grain of the freshly sanded wood, causing it to need more sanding. 

[Scrappile]

I have used the Dremel little wire wheel with great success and even a X-Acto knife.  After first sanding with a Mac Mop.

[MrsN]

In my early years of scrolling I used lots of methods to clean up the edges of my cuts.

My favorites were sanding files by Olson and sanding belts by Olson. Both are things that you put into your scroll saw like a blade and sand the insides of cuts. 

As I spend more and more time with the scroll saw I got better and had to sand less. Now I only have some fuzzies on the back of my pieces, and rarely have to sand an inside cut.

Getting good blades and slowing your cutting down (keep the saw speed in the medium-high range) and lots of practice and you will eventually be in the less sanding group.