My first decent cuts - advice and criticism please...

[new2woodwrk]

I made first decent cuts today, and if you would I'd like some guidance, criticism, and advice.

Please see below for questions I have...

First I cut the Cross.  It is 1/4" Ply, using a pinless 12.5 tpi skip tooth #5 Olsen blade run at 1/2 speed (approx)

I was unable to cut this in one pass, so I made multiple passes to cut out each side.  My inner angles are terrible :( and I was unable to make them in one cut. I had to cut in from the 90's to make them.

I also had to sand it significantly to get it relatively straight - working with ply wood not my fav so far.

 

The second cut I made was the Shamrock.

It is 1/2" ply using a Pinned, 18.5 tpi (no #) Olsen blade run at 1/4 speed (approx).

I was only able to make  partial half circle cuts and not able to make it all the way around one side without going completely off the mark

Not a lot of sanding, but had to round the edges using a few sanding sticks (60 and 100 grit).

I wanted to make the cross into a necklace and the shamrock part of multi piece project (like mounted with a "Kiss me I'm Irish" beneath it).

A few things I'm unclear of:

Finish - should I use spray lacquer or brush on - I have satin and gloss of both - thoughts?

Also what kinds of sand machines do you all use?

I have a belt and disc sander (harbor freight) but it really doesn't work for getting in close to inside cuts.

Am i using the correct blades and speed? The 1/4 speed while very slow, felt much better to control than the 1/2 speed.

Thanks in advance for your guidance, thoughts and criticism.

Edited January 31, 2018 by new2woodwrk

[rdatelle]

Hi, the old saying, practice makes perfect.  Don't give up. If your cutting 1/4 inch ply, try and stack cut two or three together and use a #3UR blade. Tape the pieces together with clear box tape. That will also help lubricate the blade. It's harder to control 1/4 inch ply if your only cutting one at a time. I would also try and cut a little faster so the blade cuts better. You shouldn't have a lot of sanding. Don't be afraid to change your blades if they seem to start cutting rough. Hope that helps a little.

[fredfret]

Cutting circles or large arcs free speed is important keep the speed constant. Stops will make flatspots ans speeding up will make the blade go outside the line. Practice is the only way to get better. The hardest things to cut with a scrollsaw are circles, and letters, The human eye will detect even the smallest error because we know what they should look like. Pattern lines for all else are recommendations.

Fredfret

Wichita, ks 

[Iguanadon]

Great start.  As mentioned, curves and arcs are tricky and take practice.  You'll eventually learn how to use "pivot points" for lack of a better phrase in holding the pieces and pivoting to make curves in order to avoid stopping, adjusting, creating flat spots.  Nothing you can do but keep doing it until you get the feel for it.  Use scrap wood to practice when you don't have anything you really need to make.  Keep up the good work.

[Rockytime]

You're doing great. Just keep practicing and it somehow all comes together.

[WayneMahler]

Well your off to a great start. Take your time and practice. The arcs and corners will come as you get more comfortable and learn the machine and blades better. Keep in mind we were all there at one point. As your practice more and more things will start to come together and you will increase in your learning. Welcome to the addiction  it's a great place to be and your in good company :). 

[Brianr24]

They look great  practice is only way.

when I first started I would buy a sheet of luan cuz it’s cheap about 11 bucks I cut it up with table saw in small pieces that the practice patterns from scroll book fit on . Just straight and curved lines. I know it’s not very exciting but you get the most  cuts and practice from the wood that way. Also ur time is spent cutting not feeding blades through tiny holes.The basket patterns are another great practice cut that utilizes the wood efficiently. I still consider myself in practice mode but I’ve moved on to projects. Good luck!

Edited January 31, 2018 by Brianr24

[tomsteve]

pretty good start there!

a couple things id suggest:

1- stick with one blade size at this time. changing from one to another can make learning more difficult.

2- practice on some scrap. take some scrap, take a pencil and start drawing arcs and lines on it. then go for it on the saw.

3- when cutting, look ahead of the cut- where you want to go.

4- you may want to let off your feed pressure. feeding the work into the blade slower can help with control. if possible, you could also slow down the saw speed to help learn controlling the blade.

 

one last thing:

if/when you get frustrated, walk away from the saw for a while.

 

Edited January 31, 2018 by tomsteve

[tomsteve]

as for sanding edges, once you learn how to control the saw and start cutting better, you wont have to worry about sanding edges.

i have a belt/disc sander and oscillating sander( the rigid one). the belt only gets used on faces of work. the disc rarely on a radius i have to clean up.

which wasnt the case when i was learning. the disc was used to make large radii way too small and lots of dust.

[new2woodwrk]

17 minutes ago, Brianr24 said:

They look great  practice is only way.

when I first started I would buy a sheet of luan cuz it’s cheap about 11 bucks I cut it up with table saw in small pieces that the practice patterns from scroll book fit on . Just straight and curved lines. I know it’s not very exciting but you get the most  cuts and practice from the wood that way. Also ur time is spent cutting not feeding blades through tiny holes.The basket patterns are another great practice cut that utilizes the wood efficiently. I still consider myself in practice mode but I’ve moved on to projects. Good luck!

Thanks @Brianr24

My lowes has Luan but only in 4x8 sheets - $22.50 per - I could get a lot of small squares out of that for sure LOL

[new2woodwrk]

Thanks all, much appreicated

 

9 minutes ago, tomsteve said:

pretty good start there!

a couple things id suggest:

1- stick with one blade size at this time. changing from one to another can make learning more difficult.

2- practice on some scrap. take some scrap, take a pencil and start drawing arcs and lines on it. then go for it on the saw.

3- when cutting, look ahead of the cut- where you want to go.

4- you may want to let off your feed pressure. feeding the work into the blade slower can help with control. if possible, you could also slow down the saw speed to help learn controlling the blade.

 

one last thing:

if/when you get frustrated, walk away from the saw for a while.

 

 

4 minutes ago, tomsteve said:

as for sanding edges, once you learn how to control the saw and start cutting better, you wont have to worry about sanding edges.

i have a belt/disc sander and oscillating sander( the rigid one). the belt only gets used on faces of work. the disc rarely on a radius i have to clean up.

which wasnt the case when i was learning. the disc was used to make large radii way too small and lots of dust.

Thanks @tomsteve

I've been using nothing but scrap LOL - it's actually helping clean up all the scrap I've been saving.

This looking ahead doesn't intuitive to me  it's more like looking behind since the cut is coming towards me. Very odd for me.

Thanks for all the suggestions - good stuff

[OPi]

Here is a link to some basic lessons.

http://www.stevedgood.com/school/sss.html

Sounds counterintuitive,  but try a higher speed instead of lower. 

And that bit about practice makes perfect - ain't necessarily so.  PERFECT practice makes perfect. 

[new2woodwrk]

13 minutes ago, OPi said:

Here is a link to some basic lessons.

http://www.stevedgood.com/school/sss.html

Sounds counterintuitive,  but try a higher speed instead of lower. 

And that bit about practice makes perfect - ain't necessarily so.  PERFECT practice makes perfect. 

Thanks @OPibut those lessons don't load for me. I've been trying to get them to work, I've tried both firefox and IE and nothing

Yes, Perfect practice  - agree 100%

Edited January 31, 2018 by new2woodwrk

[Brianr24]

45 minutes ago, new2woodwrk said:

Thanks @Brianr24

My lowes has Luan but only in 4x8 sheets - $22.50 per - I could get a lot of small squares out of that for sure LOL

Wow! Where’s that?Beverly Hills!

 Yeah that’s what I used to get 4by 8 sheet and still do for backers and what not. I can’t believe it’s that expensive last I bought it here it was under 11 bucks.

Edited January 31, 2018 by Brianr24

[new2woodwrk]

27 minutes ago, Brianr24 said:

Wow! Where’s that?Beverly Hills!

 Yeah that’s what I used to get 4by 8 sheet and still do for backers and what not. I can’t believe it’s that expensive last I bought it here it was under 11 bucks.

LOL - NW Florida - yeah thing are expensive at the big box stores here which is why I do most of my business online.

If I could buy wood at a discount online I would be doing it that way LOL

Cheapest 4x8 sheet of anything here is $19.00 for external siding ply

Edited January 31, 2018 by new2woodwrk

[Falcon]

I get some of my 1/8" ply online on ebay. https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-8-3mm-x-12-x-12-Baltic-Birch-Plywood-for-Laser-CNC-and-Scroll-Saw-40-pc/351972469846?hash=item51f331ac56:g:EKcAAOxyxnJR6A4O

[new2woodwrk]

19 minutes ago, Falcon said:

I get some of my 1/8" ply online on ebay. https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-8-3mm-x-12-x-12-Baltic-Birch-Plywood-for-Laser-CNC-and-Scroll-Saw-40-pc/351972469846?hash=item51f331ac56:g:EKcAAOxyxnJR6A4O

Sweet! - so 12x12 is large enough for most projects?

That price is about 1.24 per sheet - I think 2x4 sheets here are $10.5 per that's 1.4" they don't have 1/8"

Edited February 1, 2018 by new2woodwrk

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

You are off and running. I too suggest you increase speed and not slow the speed. I also suggest dropping down to a smaller blade. I use a #5 in just about all my cutting. Will change when I need to but for the most part #5 reverse. As Mentioned circles and arcs are something you will get better at because you will start to see where you need to pivot your left hand. I find cutting circles easier going counterclockwise. Just keep practicing and pay attention as to what you are seeing and how things feel when cutting. You do not want to over push the wood. Let the blade do the cutting and you do not want sideward pressure. As Far as sanding, with a good blade and good cutting technique no sander needed. Good luck and remember to relax and do not tense up when cutting. 

[amazingkevin]

9 hours ago, new2woodwrk said:

I made first decent cuts today, and if you would I'd like some guidance, criticism, and advice.

Please see below for questions I have...

First I cut the Cross.  It is 1/4" Ply, using a pinless 12.5 tpi skip tooth #5 Olsen blade run at 1/2 speed (approx)

I was unable to cut this in one pass, so I made multiple passes to cut out each side.  My inner angles are terrible :( and I was unable to make them in one cut. I had to cut in from the 90's to make them.

I also had to sand it significantly to get it relatively straight - working with ply wood not my fav so far.

 

The second cut I made was the Shamrock.

It is 1/2" ply using a Pinned, 18.5 tpi (no #) Olsen blade run at 1/4 speed (approx).

I was only able to make  partial half circle cuts and not able to make it all the way around one side without going completely off the mark

Not a lot of sanding, but had to round the edges using a few sanding sticks (60 and 100 grit).

I wanted to make the cross into a necklace and the shamrock part of multi piece project (like mounted with a "Kiss me I'm Irish" beneath it).

A few things I'm unclear of:

Finish - should I use spray lacquer or brush on - I have satin and gloss of both - thoughts?

Also what kinds of sand machines do you all use?

I have a belt and disc sander (harbor freight) but it really doesn't work for getting in close to inside cuts.

Am i using the correct blades and speed? The 1/4 speed while very slow, felt much better to control than the 1/2 speed.

Thanks in advance for your guidance, thoughts and criticism.

One thing I found was to go from corner to corner non-stop.Every time you stop you create a spot to be sanded .On circle or curved lines go slower as they are easyier to not follow the line.Press down on the wood cutting that way your in control of where and when  the blades has a chance to cut 

[Falcon]

13 hours ago, new2woodwrk said:

Sweet! - so 12x12 is large enough for most projects?

That price is about 1.24 per sheet - I think 2x4 sheets here are $10.5 per that's 1.4" they don't have 1/8"

Most of my projects are 8x10. I also get 8x10 peel and stick paper just makes it easier for me to print, stick it on, drill holes and cut. Comes off easily but a little pricey $22 for 50 sheets

[tomsteve]

12 hours ago, new2woodwrk said:

Sweet! - so 12x12 is large enough for most projects?

That price is about 1.24 per sheet - I think 2x4 sheets here are $10.5 per that's 1.4" they don't have 1/8"

for most projects,12 by 12  should be good. you may,in the future, decide to enlarge patterns to fit the 12" width with a boarder, which typically make the width wider then 12".what youre purchasing at lowes is veneer graded C-2, which allows for uneven color and natural characteristics.  if its what im thinking, it probably doesnt have too many plys,too.

what Falcon linked to is a grade B/BB, which will have a face free of defects. whats linked is 1/8" and i do believe a 3 ply with veneers both sides. ive bought and used it and it is a good quality plywood. 

he also sells a 1/4" plywoodhttps://www.ebay.com/itm/1-4-6mm-x-12-x-12-Baltic-Birch-Plywood-for-Laser-CNC-and-Scroll-Saw-23pc-/272247092328

 

another source is ocooch hardwoods

http://ocoochhardwoods.com/plywood.php

i crunched the numbers before- comparing ocooch to the ebay listing. with shipping it was just about the same. still, ocooch has very good quality plywood and hardwoods.

plus, i can order how many sheets i want- mix and match. also ocooch sells in 12" by 24",too

 

 you may be able to find a cabinet shop close to you that might have scraps and maybe even be able to hook you up with a local supplier.

 

 

[nrscroller]

HI there

Looks like you are off to a great start.  Go to this website and look for the practice patterns. They are free and download that and make copies and follow instructions on first page. It will teach you how to do lots of basic strokes. 

Good luckhttp://www.scrollsawgoodies.com/2014/03/practice-patterns/

Bill

[MrsN]

My 6th graders and I were just having a conversation about saw speed. 

for cutting a thin piece of ply, when the saw is running slow, the feed rate also needs to be slow. The slow feed rate often will be slower than your default speed rate. Turning up the speed a bit will help you find a good balance between saw speed and feed speed. Finding that sweet spot will make cutting feel much more natural.

[bobscroll]

Hi Jes, I'm not sure which saw you have but make sure your table is smooth other wise when you turn your piece of wood it could stick,

You can get scrap pieces of wood out of Dumpsters and people throwing out furniture, Also from wood fitters.

You made a good start Jes and as they say Practice & Practice......

See you later, Bob  

[danilou7]

As stated by most people here, practice, practice, practice does help.  With that being said, I would like to add some suggestions that may help you.

1) Staying on the line while cutting straight or circular: Have you checked to see if the blade is square to the table top? If not, reset your table to zero, and the move your angle indicator to match.  Another possibility is that you are not pushing your work piece straight back into the blade.  If you happen to be pushing the workpiece to one side or the other, it can cause the blade to "wander" in that direction whichsl makes it pretty difficult to stay on the line you want to cut. I read that someone said to think of the blade as a pivot point when cutting round shapes, and by doing that, the work piece doesn't need much feed pressure.  It's almost like it feeds itself around the curve.

2) Speed of the blade:  General rule of thumb is that the thinner the workpiece, the slower the blade should be run, assuming you have a variable speed drive, and the blade size should go smaller as well.  So in the scenario you presented, the speed should have been set at 1/4 for the 1/4" material and 1/2 for the 1/2" material.  You will find also that as the blade speed gets slower, the easier it is to follow the cut line.

I have 2 scroll saws. One is a Delta 20" with variable speed drive and the other is a Hegner Multi-Max 2, and is not a variable speed machine. They both have a place in my shop as I work with different thickness woods. Most of my work is done with 3/4" walnut so I normally will use the Hegner for that as I want the fast speed (1600 spm) and feed. And the Hegner is what I cut my teeth on, so it's my favorite saw.  I can cut the thinner material using it, but it's much more aggressive on the feed, so I really have to pay attention to what I'm doing.  But with 2 saws, I normally will switch to the Delta for 1/2" or thinner material. One more thing, I have learned that to make tight corners without having to back out and come in at a 90* from the other direction, is that when you get into the corner is to shift the feed pressure from pushing into the teeth of the blade, is to change the feed pressure to the back of the blade and then turn onto the cut line going out of the corner.  That's the best way I can describe the technique I use for tight corners.

For finishing my work, I use Deft lacquer spray.  The 1st coat acts like a sealer, and then I spray 2 more coats on for the finish.  The advantage to the lacquer is the fast dry time and the ease of use.  Also, spraying the finish on looks a lot nicer than brushing and you  remove the risk of the finish running down the sides of your workpiece.

Well, these are just my thoughts on your questions.  Hope they help and remember: Practice, Practice, Practice!!!!