Iggy is going to like this question

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

I have a couple puzzle patterns I want to make this year and was wondering what is the best blade for these. They are small puzzles and not kid puzzles. What makes one blade better than say a #2 FD silver reverse??  Thanks. Never cut a puzzle pattern. 

[ike]

what kindo of wood & what is the thickness?

IKE

[orangeman]

posting the patterns would be helpful in making an assessment.

bb

[Roberta Moreton]

They do make puzzle blades 

 

[kmmcrafts]

I'm guessing you're talking about 3/4" stock as in the puzzles like Iggy makes.. The puzzle pattern CD I bought from Fox Chapel suggest a #5 blade.. I've cut puzzles from 3/4 hardwoods with the #5.. as well as a number 3.. Typically FD-UR blades but also have cut them with FD-Polar as well as Pegas.. Certainly don't want to go larger than a #5.. The #5 puzzles to me are easier to slide together.. but also are sloppier fitting because of the thicker blade.. 

Believe I've seen Iggy post he uses a #3 Olsen Mach Speed blade on his DeWalt and i think a #3 Pegas MG blade on his Hawk.. 

Maybe cut a couple pieces from scrap and see how YOU like the fit of the puzzle with whatever blade you have close to what I had mentioned.. 

Good luck cutting and more important.. have fun.. Puzzles...heh yeah .. not my thing.. but everyone is different.. I've cut about 20 of them over the years..     

[Dan]

John, if you're talking about a standard jigsaw puzzle the FD puzzle blade works great on puzzles upto 1/4". If you use a blade with reverse teeth those teeth can lift the photo from the wood. Now if your talking about the stand up animal puzzles a #3 or #5 work well. If the blade cuts too small of a kerf then any flex in the blade can make the pieces not go together very easily. 

[fredfret]

Standup puzzles ( Igy type) in 3/4" stock I use #3 or#5 reverse tooth. Jigsaw Picture puzzles in 1/4" stock or thinner gets 2/0 or FD Superior Puzzle blades. Poster size puzzles for kids I use 2/0 new spiral fron FD. I also cut some puzzles from 6/4 X 6/4 basswood using a #5 or #7 Polar. That covers all the puzzles and types I cut.

Fredfret

Wichita, Ks

[Iguanadon]

Another puzzle zombie in the making!!!  :-)

3/4" poplar, I use #3 blade (Olson Mach Speed)  I know others who cut the same puzzles use #5.  Anything smaller than a #3 and the blade flexes and you'll have issues with the pieces sliding in and out from both sides.

Edited February 20, 2018 by Iguanadon

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

   I probably should have included some more info. They are the $ puzzles from Steve Goode and the material is 1/4" BB so I will get some FD puzzle blades as he suggests. May also make some picture puzzles as he shows too. Thanks all. Where is the best place to buy the FD puzzle blades???  I may even try some of my jewelers blades.  Thinking of giving as gifts at shows. 

 

I should also ask here has anyone done this puzzle before and if so are you using real dollar bills and if so is it legal to cut them up like that??  I know I could make paper copies but the real thing would be cool. I am sure if I did it there would be customers questioning this and if there is a web site that has a disclaimer that I might be able to add to the box would even be better. Thinking out loud here. 

 

Just been doing some web searching and I guess I found my answer, it is illegal to deface any money coin or paper. so I will have to resort to printing paper 

Edited February 20, 2018 by JTTHECLOCKMAN

[Jim McDonald]

Mike's Workshop--aka Wooden Teddy Bear--carries FD puzzle blades and they are great for jigsaw puzzles.  Never did the Steve Good piece, but for 1/4" or thinner with tiny kerf, FD superior puzzle is a thin, good blade.

[kmmcrafts]

JT, I'm sure you've been around the block with selling and the risk of liability etc. BUT I will still say it.. Be careful in who gets the puzzles.. also if you have liability insurance be sure they cover for "kids toys" If you are making puzzles for kids.. Now what you said doesn't sound like a kids puzzle.. but who is to say whether the puzzle is designed for a kid or not? Could be some liability issues down the road... BIG reason  I'm not doing puzzles.. because the company I get my insurance from charges quite a lot more for the insurance to cover liability.. In doing research on liability insurance I discovered that there are quite a lot of disclaimers that they don't cover for certain things.. such as kids toys etc.. what category a puzzle falls under as a toy or not? I suppose that depends upon the lawyer you have and the one they have should a suite come your way..

I personally feel that the average person to buy the stand up type of puzzle would be buying it for a child.. since there are mostly less than 15 pieces.. While they are unique and some would buy as a unique gift for someone as well.. 

In today's sue happy world.. heck even the insurance companies get sue happy to recover their money.. so they possibly could fall back onto the designer as well... Just sayin..      

[fredfret]

Unless the money is intended to be passed as legal tender coins can be cut into jewelry and bill can be cut into puzzles. I've seen both many times at coin shows and other places.

Fredfret

[Dan]

I believe what Fred said is correct. That said I'd have no problem if someone asked me to cut one but I won't sell any. I like the idea of using the old bills like Steve Good's. What's neat is to put the reverse side of the bill on the back of the puzzle to add some challenge. 

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

7 hours ago, kmmcrafts said:

JT, I'm sure you've been around the block with selling and the risk of liability etc. BUT I will still say it.. Be careful in who gets the puzzles.. also if you have liability insurance be sure they cover for "kids toys" If you are making puzzles for kids.. Now what you said doesn't sound like a kids puzzle.. but who is to say whether the puzzle is designed for a kid or not? Could be some liability issues down the road... BIG reason  I'm not doing puzzles.. because the company I get my insurance from charges quite a lot more for the insurance to cover liability.. In doing research on liability insurance I discovered that there are quite a lot of disclaimers that they don't cover for certain things.. such as kids toys etc.. what category a puzzle falls under as a toy or not? I suppose that depends upon the lawyer you have and the one they have should a suite come your way..

I personally feel that the average person to buy the stand up type of puzzle would be buying it for a child.. since there are mostly less than 15 pieces.. While they are unique and some would buy as a unique gift for someone as well.. 

In today's sue happy world.. heck even the insurance companies get sue happy to recover their money.. so they possibly could fall back onto the designer as well... Just sayin..      

I have used these words myself here many times and that is why I do not and never will make toys for kids of any kind. Not only small pieces to swallow but paints and finishes used. This is also something adults need to be aware of too. I may just make a few and try to sell them. As I sell to an adult I will warn them. This is the same thing with bullet pens that I make. I will not sell to any kids under 18 years old. By then they are out of school and they are adults so to speak. Happened at my last show. I explained to the kid I am not allowed to sell it to them. It is a pen but can mistaken. I warn people if they are traveling also that it can be confiscated at an airport. Not my concern after the sale. You can not follow every sale you make as I am sure you can not either and sure there are questionable items you sell also. It is ashame the society we live in today. A clock you made is hung on a wall and the kid knocks it off and has a sharp edge and kills the kid. Think about your words too. I got this far in life I am not running in fear now. 

[kmmcrafts]

If a clock falls off the wall and kills a kid or injures someone is why I have liability insurance.. A toy, or puzzle gets into the hands of a child typically a lot easier than a clock hanging on the wall since many people buy puzzles for children.. Maybe bigger kids, but what about the little brother that gets a hold of it if big brother didn't take care of it.. you know as well as I do how the lawyer thing goes down.. even though it's brothers fault for not putting it up.. They don't typically consider clocks a toy.. In talking to the insurance people they specifically ask if I'm making kids toys or anything kid related.. They'd cover me still but at about double the rate..ouch.. 

It is a shame that that is how it all works.. If I really enjoyed cutting puzzles.. then I'd get the insurance and do it.. This is where selling online can get tricky.. you don't know who the buyer really is.. Maybe a kid that Mom and dad gave a gift / credit card too so they could buy what they wanted.. Not typically that small of a kid could be buying online on his own.. but still you have no clue who is really behind that screen..    

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

11 minutes ago, kmmcrafts said:

If a clock falls off the wall and kills a kid or injures someone is why I have liability insurance.. A toy, or puzzle gets into the hands of a child typically a lot easier than a clock hanging on the wall since many people buy puzzles for children.. Maybe bigger kids, but what about the little brother that gets a hold of it if big brother didn't take care of it.. you know as well as I do how the lawyer thing goes down.. even though it's brothers fault for not putting it up.. They don't typically consider clocks a toy.. In talking to the insurance people they specifically ask if I'm making kids toys or anything kid related.. They'd cover me still but at about double the rate..ouch.. 

It is a shame that that is how it all works.. If I really enjoyed cutting puzzles.. then I'd get the insurance and do it.. This is where selling online can get tricky.. you don't know who the buyer really is.. Maybe a kid that Mom and dad gave a gift / credit card too so they could buy what they wanted.. Not typically that small of a kid could be buying online on his own.. but still you have no clue who is really behind that screen..    

Can't worry about it Kevin. Glad you have extra insurance. Hope that person does not cut their finger off taking out those clock inserts when replacing clocks and he uses a knife blade. Just saying that you can take anything in the world and make it a hazard. Sometimes responsibility and headsup  has to step in. I do not want to get into this here. Not my concern. 

Edited February 21, 2018 by JTTHECLOCKMAN

[kmmcrafts]

I understand you.. and agree.. I'm just going to post this one last message about it for someone that could come across this topic then I'm done.

Just to say how stupid crazy people are that think they can sue for the dumbest stuff.. There is a Etsy seller right now going through a law suit because the customer got  cut on their finger trying to open the box that their item shipped in.. Yeah that's right.. Whether the person wins or looses the court fees and time away from doing their business or / work is going to cost money.. this is a stupid case in my opinion.. But the reality is.. those fees etc would come out of your pocket.. Many insurances cover this type of thing.. Just something to think about 

JT, I understand your position and that's great that you don't need to worry about it.. I merely am bringing this whole insurance thing up because there are a lot of people here that is selling those puzzles etc.. I myself never had any insurance for several years.. but do enough business the last few years that I felt I should.. 

Also want to mention another thing.. IF you are selling you're considered a business.. If your shop burns down the home owners insurance company will weasel their way out of paying out on your equipment or anything related to the business.. inventory etc etc.. and could weasel out of paying out on the building if it's solely used as the business.. Many crafters insurance policies will cover this.. I know this first hand from two different small business owners that I personally know...

 

Not trying to be an insurance salesman. just hate to see this stuff happen to my fellow friends here on the village..

Again, I'm done with the topic as JT doesn't want to get into it.. I just felt it should be said for those others that do sell these puzzles.. and sell crafts in general.. Many people do not know this stuff.. Just things to think about..  

  

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Kevin having a business is such a grey area as whole initself. You can buy riders insurance if you work out of your home as a business and this opens many of audits been there done that. What you say will not apply to everyone because each town city and state have their own laws too. The IRS has its set of rules but so grey it is a nightmare even for a professional accountant. Again been there done that. I started over 35 years ago way longer than you have and I have seen many changes not only to IRS laws but to craft show rules. There is a thing now that some shows at least the large one want you to carry insurance in case someone gets hurt in your booth. As I said you can take any item in the world that you make and it can get turned into a law suit. Heck I have been turning pens now for over 12 years and I know a person who got sued because a person bought a fountain pen and while changing the fill cartridge they spilled on their furniture and floor staining these things. Frivolous lawsuits usually get thrown out of court right away and a good lawyer gets you money back. It is the hassles but that is where we are. There are a ton of books on small business startups. There are also laws protecting you as a seller from frivolous lawsuits too. 

I do not give law info because I am not a lawyer. I do not give electrical info just because I am an electrician for many times things are misinterpreted.  As I said this thread was about making those money puzzles which I am surely going to do even more so now. Just ordered some puzzle blades. If I had to duck everything I make because of a lawsuit I would stay home and wrap myself up in a blanket and never show myself again. Can not live your life that way. And if anyone is getting business info from this topic you are a fool. Get first hand info from the people in the know before you start a business. If there is a person on this site that has first hand knowledge because they are a lawyer and deal with small business start-ups it would be nice if they start a thread and maybe it can get pinned for safe keeping here and referred to over time.  Happy Scrolling everyone. 

[barb.j.enders]

Well, I guess I will step into this insurance fray.  As an insurance broker (Canada), it is always a good idea to purchase.  If you are running the business from your home you SHOULD talk to your broker.  People get into difficulties with claims if the insurance company is not aware of the risk. By talking to your broker, doesn't mean that your home coverage will be void.  Please be upfront with the broker - it is very hard to "go to bat" for you, our client, if we don't have all the information.  (Off my high horse now!)

 

[kmmcrafts]

59 minutes ago, barb.j.enders said:

Well, I guess I will step into this insurance fray.  As an insurance broker (Canada), it is always a good idea to purchase.  If you are running the business from your home you SHOULD talk to your broker.  People get into difficulties with claims if the insurance company is not aware of the risk. By talking to your broker, doesn't mean that your home coverage will be void.  Please be upfront with the broker - it is very hard to "go to bat" for you, our client, if we don't have all the information.  (Off my high horse now!)

 

The people I personally know that their garage burnt to the ground wouldn't cover much of anything.. because the business equipment may have cause the fire.. They ( I Think ) thought that it would be covered under their homeowners insurance.. Which could be possible.. If like you say.. insurance company knew about the business..

This is why I brought it up to begin with.. Many people get all wrapped up in the "craft hobby" saying it's only a hobby.. but.. does the IRS and your insurance company going to consider it as a hobby IF you're selling stuff and making a little money should something happen? This is how it all went down for the people I know that the insurance company would not cover..

Many people just don't REALLY THINK about it.. Those that DO Think.. think nothing will happen to them.. or that if they Do let the insurance company know then their rates will be hiked up.. for the extra coverage..

 

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Well I guess this insurance thing is not going away so as mentioned best to talk to your agent about anything such as what is covered incase Mother Nature does her thing, as well as having a business and not only tools but now computers to do the clerical end of things because now the business just went from the shop to the desk. Also take photos and plenty of them because again insurances as Kevin pointed out will weasel out. Also receipts so now you are into book keeping and keep book keeping off site or in a secure fireproof safe or strong box. Proper storage of flamables (not just on a shelf) need to be followed as well as updated electrical outlets for equipment used to help your case. Smoke detectors in the shop are a must because now you are under fire marshal laws for owning a shop for a business. Having fire extinguishers are a must. The list will go on and if you think this is BS ask your agent and get some books on starting a business. Did we scare everyone away yet??  No well lets talk taxes because all your tools are write offs over periods of time and money spent on the business needs to recorded and proof needed for the IRS. You will be looked at with a fine tooth comb when first starting out because you have changed your dynamics so be prepared and have a good accountant. Yes the Hobby/Business forms can work for you up to certain $$$ amounts so speak to your accountant. Still not enough yet, as Kevin pointed out he has extra insurance for the selling end of things in case of lawsuits from anything he sells. Good deal. So speak to your insurance agent. 

As I said every town, city, state has their own laws and then the IRS has theirs so if you truely going into a business get your ducks in a row but have fun. (Or you can do the shuffle and get by too. Your call) 

[kmmcrafts]

12 minutes ago, JTTHECLOCKMAN said:

Well I guess this insurance thing is not going away so as mentioned best to talk to your agent about anything such as what is covered incase Mother Nature does her thing, as well as having a business and not only tools but now computers to do the clerical end of things because now the business just went from the shop to the desk. Also take photos and plenty of them because again insurances as Kevin pointed out will weasel out. Also receipts so now you are into book keeping and keep book keeping off site or in a secure fireproof safe or strong box. Proper storage of flamables (not just on a shelf) need to be followed as well as updated electrical outlets for equipment used to help your case. Smoke detectors in the shop are a must because now you are under fire marshal laws for owning a shop for a business. Having fire extinguishers are a must. The list will go on and if you think this is BS ask your agent and get some books on starting a business. Did we scare everyone away yet??  No well lets talk taxes because all your tools are write offs over periods of time and money spent on the business needs to recorded and proof needed for the IRS. You will be looked at with a fine tooth comb when first starting out because you have changed your dynamics so be prepared and have a good accountant. Yes the Hobby/Business forms can work for you up to certain $$$ amounts so speak to your accountant. Still not enough yet, as Kevin pointed out he has extra insurance for the selling end of things in case of lawsuits from anything he sells. Good deal. So speak to your insurance agent. 

As I said every town, city, state has their own laws and then the IRS has theirs so if you truely going into a business get your ducks in a row but have fun. (Or you can do the shuffle and get by too. Your call) 

You for got to add the business insurance on your auto.. that you use to transport your goods to and from the shows ..

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

11 minutes ago, kmmcrafts said:

You for got to add the business insurance on your auto.. that you use to transport your goods to and from the shows ..

That comes off your taxes. To and from shows as well as picking up materials from lumber yards or Home Depots. Good to have a business account with Home Depot if you are going that route too. Also a seperate credit card for the business. I have this. Easier to keep records of sales. We can break this down to a fine pulp if others want to.