Looks like price wars for saws - advice needed

[new2woodwrk]

It seems there is a price war happening on new saws. I notice on HD the EX 16  is priced at a reasonable $579 and the EX 21  is now at $799, the Dewalt is now at $489 and the Delta 40-694 is now at $399

So, advice is welcome - here are my final thoughts (I'm tired of waiting for a used saw to come for sale)

So I have my choice of NEW saws narrowed down to those 3:

• Delta 40-694 - Priced 399$ - I have a Delta TS and I really like working with my TS and the Price is perfect for a new one
• Dewalt 788 - Priced $489 - everyone says this is the go to machine - $100 more than the Delta, but supposedly very similar in both usage and maintenance
• Excalibur 16 - Priced $579 - this is just outside my reach for a new saw but I could stretch it if I plead with the wife a few more weeks.  The 21 is just too far out of reach at the moment

I'm actually now leaning more towards the Delta after reading a bunch of reviews and watching a few videos of people using them. I really like the way the whole arm raises and it looks like it's very easy to change blades and thread blades for fretwork

Thoughts?

As always, thanks in advance for your advice.

 

Edited March 14, 2018 by new2woodwrk

[lew]

Let us know what you decide! I'm going to have to stick with my Wen for a bit longer.....still too new at this!! Going to be a tuff sell to the wife!!!!

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Here is the thing, I am guilty of this too. You can come to a forum and ask which saw or which tool is the best but all you get is opinions and usually they are from someone who has a particular saw. It does not say that every saw is right for everyone. Some people are bottom feeder as some are top feeders. Each saw has its pros and cons and that goes for all saws. You can listen to others but if you have at any possibility to actually get up close to each saw and take them for a test drive it can help in your decision. Any one of those saws as well as many others will cut wood and do it well. It has been talked about here how there are certain saws that are just built for production but they come with a price tag. The motors used and the bearings and parts are higher grade and again it is reflected in the price. The saws you mention fall in the mid-range price areana and that is all they are mid-range saws. There are better saws out there as there are worse saws out there. You have been here long enough and seen these discussions before. There is a forum here that discusses different saws. Those saws all use the same parallel link arm system and bet they all come from the same factory. Attach a name or color and you charge different prices. Get into the Hegners and RBIs of the world and they stand alone and no clones are made of them.    Why are the mid range saws cloned it is because that is what most people can afford simple as that. Same with lower end saws. Too many are cloned and from the same factory. Why because that price range appeals to even more people. 

I remember when I was looking at saws the woodworking shows that tour the country were the prime place to see up close and give a test drive on not only saws but any tool available. Over the years these shows have diminished and you do not see that different companies showing up. That is how I bought many of the tools in my shop. Plus I was fortunate to have a huge tool store in my area that carried tons of tools. They have since closed because the internet put them out of business. Plain and simple. It is too bad because with the internet you can not touch and feel. This has caused many stores to go by the waste side and again touch and feel is a prime factor that many people just overlook. You do not buy a car over the net or maybe you do and that maybe the next great thing that goes away, the car dealerships. 

I got off track here but my point is all the saws you pointed to are the same saw so pick one and go by price and available parts because they will break down. Good luck and start cutting something. 

[Roberta Moreton]

I had a Dewalt for 10+ years.  It was a type 1.  I sold it and it is still going!

i bought an ex 21.  Token a while to get used to it, but I love it now! 

Get the best you can afford.

[new2woodwrk]

7 hours ago, JTTHECLOCKMAN said:

Each saw has its pros and cons and that goes for all saws. ... but if you have at any possibility to actually get up close to each saw and take them for a test drive it can help in your decision.

... my point is all the saws you pointed to are the same saw so pick one and go by price and available parts because they will break down. ...

 

Thanks JT

Unfortunately, there are no stores near me that carry ANY scroll saws - Lowes/HD neither have anything in stock to even look at :(

The nearest big city to me is 2 hours away, and even then there are very few that have anything in stock.

That being said, I think I agree with you - I'm pricing the mid range saws and if they are all so similar, which I think they are IMO.

The high end machines are too far out of financial reach. in addition, being so new to all this I'm not prepared to make that kind of investment yet.

 

8 hours ago, lew said:

Let us know what you decide! I'm going to have to stick with my Wen for a bit longer.....still too new at this!! Going to be a tuff sell to the wife!!!!

No worries Lew - I bought the Delta simply because of price and a video I watched of someone cutting out a hummingbird pattern

I liked how she was able to raise the arm out of the way, insert the piece in a new fret hole, reattach the blade and keep going - it seemed so seamless and easy

I also have the Wen 3920 which I think was a great choice for a starter saw.

I will decide if I want to keep it or sell it - right now I'm thinking I might keep it as a 2nd for silhouette cutting and sanding which it does both very well!

Oh and to get the wife to let you buy one... Get her involved - my wife likes cutting and painting the work pieces - it was easy to get her interested and willing to upgrade

Edited March 14, 2018 by new2woodwrk

[Scrolling Steve]

I have had my Ex21 from day one and love it !....If i could get another saw of my choice today I would do it again !

[justdraftn]

Newbie here.  I'm a big fan of Amazon Prime.

I just purchased a Wen 3920.  I felt it was very poor quality.

Because of Prime....no shipping cost, no question return.

Packed it up and returned it.  

Delta 40-694 arriving tomorrow.

Considering the shipping and return cost, I just paid for a year of Prime.

....also got to test the Wen at no cost.

If I don't like the Delta, it will go back ....and so on and so on.

 

 

Edited March 14, 2018 by justdraftn

[MrsN]

I got the Delta from Amazon for my school shop earlier this year. It is holding up really well for all of the use/abuse it gets every day. 

I did have to take it apart once to tighten up the motor bolts, but since then it has been running just fine.

[lew]

Man.....now I need to make a change too....I like the Wen, a good starter unit, especially to see if it's a hobby that you are really interested in or just a temporary addiction!

Maybe I'll wait a few months then pull the trigger!!

[new2woodwrk]

FYI - I also am an Amazon Prime member - have been since they started that feature. I've been a member on Amazon since they opened Day 1 - I used to buy all my tech books from them at really good prices!

The Delta will be here Friday (2 day free shipping) - very excited to try out some cuts.

[new2woodwrk]

10 hours ago, lew said:

Man.....now I need to make a change too....I like the Wen, a good starter unit, especially to see if it's a hobby that you are really interested in or just a temporary addiction!

Maybe I'll wait a few months then pull the trigger!!

lew - it took me about 2 months as well before I opted to pull the trigger on this - once I decided I liked this hobby with the Wen which I still think is the best starter saw for the money, that's when I began to notice the short comings.

I've been searching for a used/refurbished unit for several weeks now, and after all is said and done and not being big on repairing equipment myself (since I'm terrible at it anyway) I knew going new was the only way for me at the moment.

Free shipping at Amazon is an incredible deal as well!

Spoke to the wife this morning about the purchase and whether to keep the Wen - she wants to keep it for specific cuts as well.

See. that's why you have to get the wife involved - if she likes, she doesn't squawk about buying stuff LOL

Edited March 14, 2018 by new2woodwrk

[lew]

25 minutes ago, new2woodwrk said:

lew - it took me about 2 months as well before I opted to pull the trigger on this - once I decided I liked this hobby with the Wen which I still think is the best starter saw for the money, that's when I began to notice the short comings.

I've been searching for a used/refurbished unit for several weeks now, and after all is said and done and not being big on repairing equipment myself (since I'm terrible at it anyway) I knew going new was the only way for me at the moment.

Free shipping at Amazon is an incredible deal as well!

Spoke to the wife this morning about the purchase and whether to keep the Wen - she wants to keep it for specific cuts as well.

See. that's why you have to get the wife involved - she likes, she doesn't squawk about buying stuff LOL

Very smart!!! Thanks for the advise!!!!

[tomsteve]

one thing on the EX sold at home depot- it may be a knock off. if i recall, manufacturing was first in canada and then moved to taiwan. there are EX knockoffs made in china being sold. the serial# tag has the country of manufacture. i read recently of someone getting the EX from HD and the tag said made in china and he was having problems out of the box.

[tgiro]

I graduated from a Dewalt to an EX about 6 years ago, I haven't regretted it. Remember - the EX-16 has a 16 inch depth while the Delta and Dewalt has a 21 inch depth.

The only real CON I know of among the three is that Delta's seem to have a problem when you need parts.

[Bill WIlson]

Like John said, there are pros and cons with all of those saws.  Personally, I would want to go with the larger capacity of the DeWalt or Delta.  I have an EX-21 and like it a lot, but I got it before all the recent changes and have my concerns about the change in the country of origin for the new EX saws.  That, plus the limitations of the 16" capacity, takes the EX off the list for me.  I would want to see what their track record is after a year or 2 on the market to see if they experience quality issues.  DeWalt did something similar several years ago.  You hear people referring to type 1 and type 2 Dewalts.  Well type 1's were considered the gold standard of mid-range scroll saws 15+ years ago.  In the first few years of the type 2 production run, there were a number of problems and they were all well documented on forums like this.  I didn't know about any of that when I bought my type 2 Dewalt.  Fortunately for me, it was a good one and I used it for over 10 years with none of the problems that many others had.  I sold it a couple years ago and it's still in use today. 

So if $$ is the major consideration, I would probably recommend the Delta.  I haven't read many reviews of it, but know one guy who has one and he seems to like it.  If I were buying a new saw today and was limited to your 3 choices, I would probably opt for the DeWalt, just because I had a good experience with my last one.  Like John said, we're all just offering our opinions and you know what they say about opinions. 

[new2woodwrk]

Thanks all for the responses

@Bill WIlson - yah but I asked for opinions and value everyone's positive advice - whether I take the advice or not is my decision.

I went with the Delta for several reasons - I do like Dewalt tools, but unless I can get them refurbished they're just a hair out of my price range.

I'm not a professional, or I wouldn't think twice about the Dewalt - perhaps even one of the other higher end saws.

I've had no issues with my Delta TS so I like they're products as well

IMO it's a roll of the dice no matter what you buy - I know others with my TS who couldn't wait to return it and get a cabinet saw. But IMO that's comparing apples and oranges.

Just like comparing the high end scroll saws to the mid and lower range ones - it's all opinion and roll of the dice.

Hopefully, my roll will come up good this time LOL

[tonylumps]

Just a little Maint. Is required now and then .No matter what saw you end up with

[hotshot]

4 hours ago, new2woodwrk said:

 

Just like comparing the high end scroll saws to the mid and lower range ones - it's all opinion and roll of the dice.

 

I don't agree that establishing value and risk on any saw is "just opinion" as there are very solid factors that influence risk and capability for each of these choices.  No doubt there are some that are religious about their saws, but I think it is easy enough to take that into account, otherwise, we should just all buy Ryobi.

All that said, good luck with your new saw.

Edited March 14, 2018 by hotshot

[new2woodwrk]

1 hour ago, hotshot said:

I don't agree that establishing value and risk on any saw is "just opinion" as there are very solid factors that influence risk and capability for each of these choices.  No doubt there are some that are religious about their saws, but I think it is easy enough to take that into account, otherwise, we should just all buy Ryobi.

All that said, good luck with your new saw.

What I meant and should have said is: it's a roil of the die whether you get a good one or a bad one.

Example:

1 1/2 years ago I bought a Wen drill press from Amazon, it didn't work properly - I was unable to move the motor to change the speed, so I returned it and bought that crappy Craftsman that had so much trouble.

Last week I bought the same drill press from Amazon and it works great!

So that's what I meant - sorry for the misunderstanding

[SCROLLSAW703]

I think Randy & jt hit on the head! imo. for what that's worth. I'm serious about maintenance on all my tools. But my scroll saws probably get more attention than any of my tools, except the planer & jointer. I think, as jt put it, this has been discussed & beat to death. Ya ask a bunch of scroll sawyers their opinions about saws, & you're goin' to get 900 answers. Simply because everyone has an opinion about the saw they own. 

The saws you're lookin' at in the mid price range are still going to require maintenance & care. Every saw does. Including our high end Hawks. You'll find maintenance is key to making the saw do what it's designed to do. Treat it as your new best friend.
 

[Rockytime]

Yup. Anything that moves, slides or rotates needs either grease or oil. Some more than others, perhaps, but all do.

Edited March 15, 2018 by Rockytime
word change

[Ron Johnson]

I started out with a 16" Craftsman because of price and uncertainty of the hobby. Well, it wasn't long and I was hooked. A year later I upgraded to a Craftsman 20" because I was doing bigger projects. Then one day I was in a specialty tool store that carried Excalibur. There on display was a 30" Excalibur and to top it off they had reduced the price. After doing my research and reading endless reviews on this saw and company I took the plunge. That was almost 20 years ago and I haven't regretted ever since. This saw is amazing. It for sure will outlast me. I would go with the saw within your budget because all three brands are good and if operated and maintained properly will give you the same end result. Like buying a car. They will all get you from A to B. Good luck with your decision.

 

[Rolf]

New2woodwork good luck with your new saw. I hope it gives you tons of fun and of course we want to see pictures of what you create with it.

As the others have said they all need maintenance at some point if you want then to survive. 

I still have my Old Delta SS350, that truly was a great entry level saw. I switched to a new Hawk G4-26 in 2005 that has treated me very well!

I always find the discussion about having to get permission to buy a tool very humorous,  does the wife ask permission to buy shoes, or pocket book (sorry that is a bit sexist) as long as the bills are paid and we are not spending the grocery money it should never be an issue. JMO. I will admit that my wife does spoil me with some amazing toys for my birthday and Christmas. We do talk  about all large ticket item that go into the house but unless it is a really big purchase like a new Jeep or it impacts both of us like a big screen TV we both do what we want.

I am truly blessed.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 17, 2018 by Rolf

[Hawk]

Pick the one that you're comfortable with (price mostly) all 3 choices have their pro's and con's, go with your gut!!!!

 

Chris

[meflick]

2 hours ago, Rolf said:

. . .  does the wife ask permission to buy shoes, or pocket book (sorry that is a bit sexist) . . .

Rolf, no but then I don't tend to buy shoes or pocket books   Not something I am "into" BUT one could also argue that shoes and pocket books are items of "clothing" for most women and I doubt that many men ask for permission to buy their clothes either (I suspect that for many men, their wife is doing that buying anyway - but that is another story )  We are blessed to be able to not have to "ask" when either of us wants to buy something - but like you - we do talk about big ticket items before either of us pulls the trigger.  Lucky for me, he was the woodworker BEFORE i came back around to the scroll saw that I had had him buy many years ago SO, most of what I might want or need was already in the shop.  Lucky for him - I am usually the one saying "go ahead" at the tool shop and the guys at the store always seem shocked that I am the one telling him to get it!  He spoils me too, but its not with jewels, clothes, etc. but with the tools and equipment that I want - I return the favor!   Makes for two happy people.