A reminder for villagers of visitors

[new2woodwrk]

I wanted to offer a friendly reminder to villagers when making comments to visitors, both new and old.

Once we visitors find this place and start asking questions and trying to contribute when we can, our post counts increase fairly rapidly.

Just because our post counts increase, doesn't mean we are vastly more knowledgeable all of a sudden. We do have and get more information and process the responses to our questions, however our over all abilities and knowledge are no where near that of the many experts on this forum.

Take me for example:

I admit thanks to you all, I am lightyears' ahead of when I found this site and asked my first question - however, there are still so many things I've not tried and don't know how to do  - Intarsia, segmentation, lettering, making patterns, wood selection, grain direction selection, staining and so much more!

So, I continue to ask what are beginner questions, simply because I still am a beginner (scrolling 2 months now) and perhaps I've come across a subject or technique I am unfamiliar with or can't find a good explanation elsewhere.

I'm posting this reminder because in response to a question someone asked, they were given the dreaded "You've been here long enough to know..." response.

Ouch...

May I suggest, even if someone has been here "long enough to know" that if you're not going to respond positively, perhaps it's better not to respond at all?

One of the first lessons my parents taught me was "If you can't say something nice about someone, don't say anything at all"

I know on forums, sometimes responses can be taken the wrong way simply because there is no emotion being submitted with the response. As well some people have thin skin.

I'm just saying...

One sure way to decrease the population of a forum is to be snobby with new members.

I've been here "long enough to know" many of the responses are in "fun" , but others may not realize it.

I'm not trying to start anything here, and apologize if I've offended anyone, but after reading the response I thought it warranted mention and...

Just a friendly reminder.

Thanks for reading

Back to our regularly scheduled program....

[kmmcrafts]

I may offend someone here in saying this but.. it's how I feel.. 

First off.. I don't feel there are "ANY" pro's here on this forum... We are all here to learn from and give advice to one another.. I don't consider anyone above or below another.. 

I've been sawing for 12 years.. about 6 years production cutting.. so what!!.. I don't want to cookie for that statement LOL I learn new things here almost on a daily basis.... and those years don't compare to one that production cuts.. a production cutting may have more experience in 1-2 years over someone cutting for 50 years as a hobbyist.. My point is.. Everyone has room to improve. and sometimes that improvement is from a newbie.. that tip or trick for doing something different or out of the ordinary.. I have to be honest and say.. Many of the old timers have been doing things the same way for several years.. a newbie comes on board and shows a different method and bam.. the old timers say to themselves.. why didn't I think of that? 

Also there are many styles of scroll sawing.. Ie.. not everyone does fretwork.. not everyone cut's wood.. some cut plastic or metal etc etc.. a scroll saw is a very versatile tool and many many different types of projects and materials can be done on a scroll saw.. 

In my mind. a pro would be one that has done most all materials and all styles of cutting.. from fretwork to intarsia to inlay etc etc etc... I've pretty much done fretwork and lightly touched inlay work.. 

So, like I said in your post the other day... Have a question? ask it.. because there are many different ways of doing things.. even though I've been on this forum for years.. I learn something new almost on a daily basis.. even though I've been sawing hobbyist for 6 years and production cutting for another 6 years.. One thing I find with production cutters.. they are very routine in how they cut.. and what they make Ie.. I keep it as simple as possible.. very seldom do other styles of cutting... because one... I don't have time to do a lot of playing or experimenting with other styles of cutting..  for instance I don't think Iggy has ever cut anything other than puzzles.. I went a long time with only cutting ornaments and clocks.. I'd like t do more puzzles, and portraits...  and try making bowls.. more bandsaw boxes.. but all the orders I get.. I get stuck making ornaments and clocks the most.. because that is what I started my business doing..  BTW.. not complaining about that.. I enjoy making whatever is ordered and making the customers happy.. but I miss out of other cutting styles and other things to make.. 

 

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Now Jes I am not sure why you brought this up, but if you are referring to my post reply to your question http://www.scrollsawvillage.com/forums/topic/28508-looks-like-price-wars-for-saws-advice-needed/ where in it I mention the statement "You have been here long enough and seen these discussions before." You are taking it out of context. This happens many times on many forums when someone reads something or a set of words that does not sit right with them they get annoyed. Remember one thing when someone answers your post or anyone's post it is a set of typed words. There is no pause for effect, no highlighting of a specific word, or no way to show word deflection because you can not hear that person's response, only read it. We are not authors here. If you are pointing that spotlight at me remember this, I try my best to answer questions to the best of my ability and being you have over 400 posts here you have been here long enough to see some of the answers given more than once. The topic about different scrollsaws comes up a million times and it gets answered mainly the same way. My point in that response I gave you there, was that all you are getting is opinions and you now have to take those and try to decipher if they help you. We can not tell you THIS IS THE SAW YOU MUST BUY!!  

I believe today's society has become so thinned skinned it really is causing problems. If I offended you in anyway it was not my intention. As Kevin said we are not professionals and I fit that category well and I learn everyday not only shop related things but life things as well. But I have been doing this for over 35 years and hopefully my experience can help others some small way and that is why I answer questions. No I do not answer all questions and no I do not respond to every item shown in the bragging section and no I do not respond to many sections of this forum because either they do not interest me or I do not have the time. We all were beginners at one time and I get that but many times people do not take the time and do some searching on their own. I know from my own experience that is one way I find out more things than just posting a question. Again do not read into this statement please keep asking questions and please keep adding your thoughts to others questions. I like to share what I can if i can and I am sure so do many others here. Some are more vocal than others but that is human nature. 

So again if you are referring to my response to you I meant no ill effects from it. 

Edited March 15, 2018 by JTTHECLOCKMAN

[SCROLLSAW703]

I agree. I've been scrolling 26 years, but there was A LOT of learning in that time. I don't claim to know it all. If I did, what would be the point of being here, learning from all of you while I'm still stuck in this chair? 

I think scrolling is a teacher in itself. And like you, Kevin, I may get somebody's dander up with an answer to a post, or a post in general. Scrolling has been therapeutic for me, taught me patience I never had before, creativity, the use of other ww machinery, the list goes on. And yes, us "old timers" do learn from the newbies that come on board.

I try to be a little sensitive when I respond to a post, but other times, the more ya read that one given post, sometimes the first thing that comes to mind is what happened to his common sense? You'd be surprised at how many posts on here are started with "a scroll saw followed me home today, now what?" Ok genius, open the box & start with the manual is what you'd like to say, but in the back of your mind, there's a voice that says "don't say it" because you'll be doomed if ya do. So, as politely as possible, ya try to answer. 

I'm a perty tough ol' bird, not much offends me. Trust me, not only bein' a retired OTR truckdriver, & doin' I lost count after first hundred craft shows, there ain't much I ain't heard or said. I'm by no means a production cutter, but I'm no pro, either. I take alot of pride in my work, & it shows. I've sold pieces all over the country. I guess the moral of the story is there are the good, the bad, & the ugly. Take from it what you can, & let the rest of it roll of your back. jmo. 

[SCROLLSAW703]

What JT said! It couldn't have been said any better!!!!

[new2woodwrk]

27 minutes ago, JTTHECLOCKMAN said:

Now Jes I am not sure why you brought this up, but if you are referring to my post reply to your question http://www.scrollsawvillage.com/forums/topic/28508-looks-like-price-wars-for-saws-advice-needed/ where in it I mention the statement "You have been here long enough and seen these discussions before." You are taking it out of context. This happens many times on many forums when someone reads something or a set of words that does not sit right with them they get annoyed. Remember one thing when someone answers your post or anyone's post it is a set of typed words. There is no pause for effect, no highlighting of a specific word, or no way to show word deflection because you can not hear that person's response, only read it. We are not authors here. If you are pointing that spotlight at me remember this, I try my best to answer questions to the best of my ability and being you have over 400 posts here you have been here long enough to see some of the answers given more than once. The topic about different scrollsaws comes up a million times and it gets answered mainly the same way. My point in that response I gave you there, was that all you are getting is opinions and you now have to take those and try to decipher if they help you. We can not tell you THIS IS THE SAW YOU MUST BUY!!  

I believe today's society has become so thinned skinned it really is causing problems. If I offended you in anyway it was not my intention. As Kevin said we are not professionals and I fit that category well and I learn everyday not only shop related things but life things as well. But I have been doing this for over 35 years and hopefully my experience can help others some small way and that is why I answer questions. No I do not answer all questions and no I do not respond to every item shown in the bragging section and no I do not respond to many sections of this forum because either they do not interest me or I do not have the time. We all were beginners at one time and I get that but many times people do not take the time and do some searching on their own. I know from my own experience that is one way I find out more things than just posting a question. Again do not read into this statement please keep asking questions and please keep adding your thoughts to others questions. I like to share what I can if i can and I am sure so do many others here. Some are more vocal than others but that is human nature. 

So again if you are referring to my response to you I meant no ill effects from it. 

JT I did not take offense at your response - not sure it was yours I was even referring to, I just remember reading that dreaded "long enough" comment and had flashbacks of someone on another forum telling visitors to research before they ask questions and they had been on the forums long enough to not have asked such a dumb question - I'm not saying that is what you were referencing.

I do value everyone's positive responses to all the questions asked, even those asked dozens/hundreds of times over an over - I know as time passes I'll probably see the same questions asked over and over as well and rather than respond with an opinion I may just post a link to the thread and ask if that is what they are referring to - similar to what Kevin did in my request for setting up my new Delta.

No offense taken by me from you or any other person on this forum - you all have been exceedingly kind and welcoming to me and it is greatly appreciated by me,

Oh and "I'm envisioning a scroll saw will be following me home Friday... Now what?" LOL J/K

 

Edited March 15, 2018 by new2woodwrk

[kmmcrafts]

I'm always torn on the search function of a web site.. because on one hand.. most questions have already been asked.. so I feel the forum would be one of those other boring lame forums that seem as though they are basically dead.. If one gets tired of reading and answering the same old question.. sometimes it's time to take a step back and find another forum or hobby to do or forum to read.. I'm not trying to offend one in saying that.. but it is true that the forum is dead if not many people are posting things and asking questions.. Plus.. many times topics go off into some interesting discussions.. Sometimes it's a pain in the behind to search and sift through the thousand search results to find a simple answer that someone could just answer for you in a few minutes.. Plus.. sometimes.. a new question will get a different perspective and possibly a different out come on the answer.. Like I said in my last reply.. many times a newbie can teach a old dog new tricks.. many old timers get stuck in their same old ways of doing things.. 

[Sycamore67]

Ouch ??

I guess after awhile you will recognize different members and how they respond.  Each has their own personality and way to respond.  Instead of saying ouch, just ignore some responses.  In this day, writing a response or comment is done quickly and many times without rereading or considering how a comment will be taken.  Yes, sometimes a comment might be worded differently or people read it different than was intended.  I think much of this is just the fast nature of the way people respond to things on the internet.  

[new2woodwrk]

48 minutes ago, kmmcrafts said:

I'm always torn on the search function of a web site.. because on one hand.. most questions have already been asked.. so I feel the forum would be one of those other boring lame forums that seem as though they are basically dead.. If one gets tired of reading and answering the same old question.. sometimes it's time to take a step back and find another forum or hobby to do or forum to read.. I'm not trying to offend one in saying that.. but it is true that the forum is dead if not many people are posting things and asking questions.. Plus.. many times topics go off into some interesting discussions.. Sometimes it's a pain in the behind to search and sift through the thousand search results to find a simple answer that someone could just answer for you in a few minutes.. Plus.. sometimes.. a new question will get a different perspective and possibly a different out come on the answer.. Like I said in my last reply.. many times a newbie can teach a old dog new tricks.. many old timers get stuck in their same old ways of doing things.. 

I agree - in addition, many forums search also include search engine results - for example there are quite a few that add a Google search, when you search for a topic you get the entire gamut of results not just those on the website/forum which for me anyway, tells me not to use that sites search function.

[OCtoolguy]

I have asked many questions here and have been graced with many answers. I truly do appreciate all the help and friendly advice I have received. I do sometimes try to use the "search" function but most generally I'm in a hurry and just ask my question. The one thing that I DO TRY to do is re-read my question or response to someone else's question before I hit the "send" button. Even then, I will have to edit it at times so that it either makes more sense to the reader or to soften the sound of what I wrote. So far, I have had only one minor run-in and that was just blown off by me and all is well. I love this forum and until someone truly "pisses" me off, I'm not going away. Thanks to all for your kindness and it really is the newbies who keep the hobby alive and well.

Ray

Oh, and many thanks to Travis for creating and keeping this forum running smoothly. One of these days, I'm going to get all the way through the Inkscape videos.

 

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Oh I am guilty of the do a search thing on the IAP forum and get called out on it all the time and I have taken a step back from that forum many times because I do not like the attitude that gets taken right away and from newbies. My point there and is as well here is and I can not for the life of me seem to get this point across without ruffling feathers so here it goes. I mention do a search and it seems that those words are just taboo in todays society. As I said everyone is in such a hurry and you see prime examples on the road. But do a search is not meant to degrade anyone but what it does is gets you more in depth answers. As on IAP the same questions get asked sometimes 2, 3 times in the same week and it does get annoying and yes you can overlook it but enough already. When a question gets asked repeatedly the answers get shorter and shorter and many facts are left out. But if you do a search for that question you can read at your own leisure all the previous answers and within there maybe some more in detail answers. That is all it is and yes I understand some sites the search feature is a chore to understand. I get all that. But before you get all balled up look at it from both sides. 

I will take it even further. When a question gets asked, many people try to give their best response and that response is to their particular experience. There are many ways to do something and many of these are not wrong. But within an answer many times details are left out either because we assume they are just basic knowhow or something that is abit dangerous to try to explain in some typed words. This is why I refrain from giving electrical advice. being an electrician for over 40 years I have gotten to see many things and do many things that come natural to me but not to a layman and this happens in all fields and scrolling is the same. I turn on a lathe and again many things can be unsafe to someone who does not do it often.

I say take the information you get here and use that as a tool to further your knowledge but do not use that to be gospel for what we do. Do not stop at the responses you get in your post. look further. This site is fortunate to have alot of very good forums that can break things down. Use them and DO A SEARCH.   

[Rockytime]

It's all good. I don't know squat but my grandchildren think I'm a genius. Thank goodness!

[OCtoolguy]

14 minutes ago, JTTHECLOCKMAN said:

Oh I am guilty of the do a search thing on the IAP forum and get called out on it all the time and I have taken a step back from that forum many times because I do not like the attitude that gets taken right away and from newbies. My point there and is as well here is and I can not for the life of me seem to get this point across without ruffling feathers so here it goes. I mention do a search and it seems that those words are just taboo in todays society. As I said everyone is in such a hurry and you see prime examples on the road. But do a search is not meant to degrade anyone but what it does is gets you more in depth answers. As on IAP the same questions get asked sometimes 2, 3 times in the same week and it does get annoying and yes you can overlook it but enough already. When a question gets asked repeatedly the answers get shorter and shorter and many facts are left out. But if you do a search for that question you can read at your own leisure all the previous answers and within there maybe some more in detail answers. That is all it is and yes I understand some sites the search feature is a chore to understand. I get all that. But before you get all balled up look at it from both sides. 

I will take it even further. When a question gets asked, many people try to give their best response and that response is to their particular experience. There are many ways to do something and many of these are not wrong. But within an answer many times details are left out either because we assume they are just basic knowhow or something that is abit dangerous to try to explain in some typed words. This is why I refrain from giving electrical advice. being an electrician for over 40 years I have gotten to see many things and do many things that come natural to me but not to a layman and this happens in all fields and scrolling is the same. I turn on a lathe and again many things can be unsafe to someone who does not do it often.

I say take the information you get here and use that as a tool to further your knowledge but do not use that to be gospel for what we do. Do not stop at the responses you get in your post. look further. This site is fortunate to have alot of very good forums that can break things down. Use them and DO A SEARCH.   

John, you are so right. I have tried so many times in so many ways to find my answers before asking the questions. I have spent many hours watching youtube videos regarding dust control but I could never find just what I was looking for. I came away with a ton of info to put in my memory bank. Then I came here and asked my question regarding dust control/Dewalt saw. That's when I got the answers I was looking for. In the end, I designed and built my own system but I incorporated what I had learned both here and on youtube. I guess what I'm trying to say is, even though there is no such thing as a "stupid question", do try to find some of the stuff on your own. You will be glad you did. I DO enjoy reading the questions and answers on different things here. I have even ventured out to the other forums here on SSV and found great enjoyment from most of them. This is a great place to hang out.

Ray

 

[spirithorse]

I'm not going to get into an argument with anyone about this subject but, I want to say that I think Jes
brings up a very good point.

I also think JT made a valid point about , and I quote here for accuracy, "it is a set of typed words. There is no pause for effect, no highlighting of a specific word, or no way to show word deflection because you can not hear that person's response, only read it. "
 

I think the bottom line is to contemplate HOW we say things before we post and TREAT ONE ANOTHER WITH RESPECT.

God Bless! Spirithorse

[Travis]

Here's a little fun science behind communities.  It's called the 90, 9, 1 rule.  Basically it says:

• 90% of the people are media consumers (lurkers).  They read posts, look at pictures or patterns, but they don't participate.
• 9% are media participants.  They answer threads, comment on pictures, and maybe hit that heart icon.
• 1% are media creators.  They're the ones who will start new threads, upload pictures or patterns, write articles or tutorials, etc.

So if we figure that only our 9% group and 1% group are posters on SSV, there is a whole 90% out there that may have the same question, but hasn't spoken up.  We want to help them too.

I think it's important for someone looking for an answer to do some leg work so they can find the most robust information from different points of view.  That way they can make an informed decision on which saw to buy, what wood to use, which technique to implement, etc to get the results they want.  But it's also important that they feel OK to ask a question.  I've been a member of some forums where people are petrified to ask a question.  What a terrible place that was to be.

I want to make sure we don't fall into the trap of the default answer to a question is "Use The Search."  (I don't think we're anywhere near that, though.)  It's true that many of the same questions get asked a lot.  But there's only so many subjects that can be discussed without overlapping or repeating.  

Its also good to recognize that while some of the questions may look similar, they might be asking in a slightly different way or looking at it from a different angle.  A search may answer the general question, but not the specific question.

I try to answer them the best I can.  If I don't have much to offer, I move on to the next thread.  If there is a previous thread would answer the answer perfectly, link it to them.  That is hugely helpful and may help the next person that has the same question.

We've been blessed with an amazingly helpful and friendly community of like minded folks.  It warms my heart to know that is what SSV is known for.  I love the fact that people can ask questions and get advice from people who've been scrolling for 40 years and from people who started yesterday.  That is really cool.

Keep asking!  Keep helping!  Keep scrolling! 

[Sparkey]

I am on a lot of reloading forums. You get the same questions over and over a lot more there. Most of the time I answer their question. If it is a bad day I will just scroll past it. I have noticed from experience that even though the answer can be found in the search feature you can't  necessarily always find it in there.

[wombatie]

I joined the Village on Jan. 3rd 2009 and in all of that time the questions have not changed just the wording of them.  I have never known anyone say anything that is upsetting but then again it may have been taken the wrong way, as was said before you cannot see that the person typing is maybe smiling when they type something.  I for one learn new things constantly on this forum, in fact it was only a couple of years ago that I learnt that FD blades were actually Flying Dutchman.    Everyone know that I'm blonde.    Please don't take offense to things said because they could be said with tongue in cheek. 

Marg

[Phantom Scroller]

KEEP CALM AND KEEP SCROLLIN' 

[Loskoppie]

My point is I am learning this hobby from the forms.  I have taken a long time to get it up and going and i am no wear near any of you.  I am the reader and learner type.  I try to put a

positive post to a newbie. 

[NC Scroller]

I have been scrolling for 20 + years.  I am in my shop probably 320 days a year.  I learn or re-learn something almost every day either in the shop or on forums. I have taught scrolling and have done numerous public demos through the club's U belong to. I seldom post bragging pictures but I love to help people so I do reply to questions and I do offer suggest when I think they are needed.

IMHO a lot of this thread is talking about our world today.  To many people today want it now.  They don't want to start at the bottom and work into it.  It is what it is.  We with the experience and knowledge have to understand it and accept it.  Yes that means answering the same questions again and again.  The problem is Scrolling is a finesse thing.  You can't read about it or watch a video and become an instant expert.  You have to do and learn as you do.  That more then anything else we need to encourage people to do.

Now I feel better :-)

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Maybe at times it is good to have posts like this pop up but I never seen any need for them here because people here have been friendly and kind and questions do get answered. As many times as the same questions get asked they do get answered but as I explained there is another side to getting those answers and hope others read into that part of it too.

I feel responsible for this post being brought up by the OP and that is why I am replying as often as I did here. I feel though he did an injustice too by taking the words he felt were harmful out of context and making it into this. I explained myself if indeed it was I who he referred to.  I want to again say I do not degrade anyone because of experience or lack of knowledge in what we do. So many different aspects go into what we do and they all have their own knowledge base that needs to be taken on. From prepping of wood to finishing has a set of skills needed to accomplish this. We all were beginners and questions will always be a part of the learning journey and as always said the only dumb question is the one not asked. Safety is huge in the shop so questions are needed but again that is only one tool used to gain that knowledge. We are living a world where there is so much info available at our fingertips it is mindblowing. From forums like this to videos to books and magazines. use them all and do slow down. I know the world is a me too and have to have it now society but sometimes the tortoise wins the race. 

And above all when reading responses give the person or persons who responded a break too. They took the time to respond and maybe there is a word or 2 not in sync with your way of talking but it is a typed word and not a spoken word. I have said enough on this. I do apologize if I offended the OP.