trackman Posted July 20, 2018 Report Share Posted July 20, 2018 I had a project that came apart. It was hanging were the sun was on it most of the day. I used titebond 2. Only thing I can think of is the sun heated up the glue to were it got soft. Now the question - is this possible and is there a glue that wouldn’t be effected by the heat (sun)? Thanks OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCtoolguy Posted July 20, 2018 Report Share Posted July 20, 2018 9 minutes ago, trackman said: I had a project that came apart. It was hanging were the sun was on it most of the day. I used titebond 2. Only thing I can think of is the sun heated up the glue to were it got soft. Now the question - is this possible and is there a glue that wouldn’t be effected by the heat (sun)? Thanks I'm thinking that many times folks use a heat gun to take glued furniture apart so I guess it's possible. Now, I would think that epoxy would be the answer if you are going to be hanging that thing back in the same place. Not sure about contact cement. But epoxy should work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTTHECLOCKMAN Posted July 21, 2018 Report Share Posted July 21, 2018 Those type glues are or can be affected by heat. But have to ask what was the project and was the actual glue lines exposed?? Just heating the wood is not causing it. It had to be in a hot temp area like a confined corner where no cool air circulates. You do not hear this often and I have to say the first I ever heard it. You can use hide glue, or construction adhesives such as Liquid Nails or PL 2000 Epoxy is also heat sensitive as well as contact cement. Now they sell high heat epoxies that can withstand extreme heat used in industries. That is a tough one. OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karl S Posted July 21, 2018 Report Share Posted July 21, 2018 I'm wondering if the joint was not covered with enough glue at the time of assembly, (a starved glue joint)? OCtoolguy and JTTHECLOCKMAN 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTTHECLOCKMAN Posted July 21, 2018 Report Share Posted July 21, 2018 32 minutes ago, Karl S said: I'm wondering if the joint was not covered with enough glue at the time of assembly, (a starved glue joint)? This is a very valid point too. Sometimes when clamping pieces together we get too aggressive and that possibility can happen. OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trackman Posted July 21, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2018 I should have gave more information. These was hung up in a entrance hallway to a building. There is two side by side full glass doors for the entrance. All five of the plaques are hung in a row. Only the first two was effected. The sun must not reach the other three. The center pieces are what came loose an fell. Going to use two part epoxy this time & suggest that they be placed farther into the hallway away from direct sun light. OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTTHECLOCKMAN Posted July 21, 2018 Report Share Posted July 21, 2018 (edited) Thanks for the photo and by the way very nice cuttings. Not knowing exactly how these are assembled and what part you are talking about I can make some assumptions. Correct me if I am wrong. From what I gather it is the walnut inserts that fell out. If this be the case I see that if they are not cut to the exact diameter of the next ring there are gaps where it gets glued. If they are glued only to the sides of that ring then the glue surface is small and is compromised because of gaps. Edge gluing is always weaker than face gluing and I can see where heat from sunlight can cause these weak joints to fail. Also two dissimilar woods with a smooth surface from the cutting action of the blade can compromise the glue from penetrating. Now if you are talking about the entire center coming lose of the background substrate then it can be a painted thing and wood glue and that is always a problem. Just some of my thoughts. Epoxy would help with the gap problem and allow more glue surface. Probably if I were doing these and ran into this problem I would try to work out some sort of alternate pattern design. I would add a dado the the ring that holds the walnut pieces so that they are glued to a flat surface and not just the edges, Harder to explain than it would be to do. Edited July 21, 2018 by JTTHECLOCKMAN OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Monk Posted July 21, 2018 Report Share Posted July 21, 2018 Was the piece glued to a painted surface? OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trackman Posted July 21, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2018 Picture is worth 1,000 words lol. You are right it was the walnut center that came loose. It sets on shims in 4 locations 3/8” wide. An the walnut ring is 1/4” wide. Also the cherry ring sets on shims also to get the layered look. OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karl S Posted July 21, 2018 Report Share Posted July 21, 2018 The problem looks like, form the picture that there was no provision for wood movement, wood expands and contracts with weather and temperature changes as well as humidity. The picture makes a great example of this. Nice work and you can repair this and it will be as good as new. OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockytime Posted July 21, 2018 Report Share Posted July 21, 2018 I know nothing about glue but I recognize some GREAT cutting. Those are beautiful. OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTTHECLOCKMAN Posted July 21, 2018 Report Share Posted July 21, 2018 You have cross grain situation. Top and bottom section the grain runs north and south and the shim are east to west. Wood movement over time will cause failures even in no sunlight. Especially so little glue surface. A flexible epoxy could probably help. Definetly not contact cement. OCtoolguy and NC Scroller 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trackman Posted July 21, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2018 Even in such a small shim cause problems? The other three that are made the same are as strong as the day I made them three years ago. OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Monk Posted July 22, 2018 Report Share Posted July 22, 2018 If I am glueing something to a stained or painted surface I always use Weldbond glue. This may not pertain to your project. I used to have some problems with Titebond until I started using it. OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTTHECLOCKMAN Posted July 22, 2018 Report Share Posted July 22, 2018 4 hours ago, trackman said: Even in such a small shim cause problems? The other three that are made the same are as strong as the day I made them three years ago. It can but being in the sunlight the temp swing is greater than the others. The woods probably will change colors also as time goes by unevenly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NC Scroller Posted July 22, 2018 Report Share Posted July 22, 2018 Yes even small pieces will move. There is a lot less movement in a small piece then in bigger pieces. If that project was in the direct sunlight it would move one way when the sun was on it and back when the sun was not. Every day. 365 times a year. Think of it was a piece of then metal that you bend over and over again. At some point it breaks. I bet you would also find out the moisture content on the sun piece is less. "Baked" in the sun dried it more then pieces not in the sun and that cause the wood to shrink. The wetter the wood at the time of assembly the more the shrinkage. Just curious. How long was the piece in that spot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trackman Posted July 22, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2018 21 minutes ago, NC Scroller said: Yes even small pieces will move. There is a lot less movement in a small piece then in bigger pieces. If that project was in the direct sunlight it would move one way when the sun was on it and back when the sun was not. Every day. 365 times a year. Think of it was a piece of then metal that you bend over and over again. At some point it breaks. I bet you would also find out the moisture content on the sun piece is less. "Baked" in the sun dried it more then pieces not in the sun and that cause the wood to shrink. The wetter the wood at the time of assembly the more the shrinkage. Just curious. How long was the piece in that spot? Three years in same place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trackman Posted July 25, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2018 Not to beat this topic to death but to let everyone know that I took the repaired projects back today. They are going to hang all of them in a different location out of the sun. The place they are at is a home for veterans that are having problems adjusting out of the service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevan Posted July 25, 2018 Report Share Posted July 25, 2018 I can't comment about the glue situation because I have little or no experience in that area but I am tremendously impressed with your cuttings!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill WIlson Posted July 25, 2018 Report Share Posted July 25, 2018 10 hours ago, trackman said: Not to beat this topic to death but to let everyone know that I took the repaired projects back today. They are going to hang all of them in a different location out of the sun. The place they are at is a home for veterans that are having problems adjusting out of the service. Whether or not the sun caused the failure, it's good that they are being moved. UV rays are rough on wood. Oh and kudos to you for bringing a little joy to the lives of these struggling vets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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