Tung Oil vs BLO 50/50

[Rockytime]

I know little or nothing about finishing. My go to is the BLO. However, there has been conversation about various finishes. This morning on my way home from breakfast I stopped in at my local ACE hardware store looking at finishes. There was Minwax Tung oil as well as Watco Tung oil. The Minwax was a small can for $15 and the Watco was a big can for $16. So my weird sense of economy said the more expensive the better. Enuf about that. Anyway I bought the Minwax. Since I scroll mostly pine I test Tung oil and BLO. The Tung oil on the left and BLO on the right. The BLO brought out the grain much more. So I'm wondering why use Tung oil. I would like to have a practical finish. I have been satisfied with BLO but perhaps there are other things I would like better.

[OCtoolguy]

1 minute ago, Rockytime said:

I know little or nothing about finishing. My go to is the BLO. However, there has been conversation about various finishes. This morning on my way home from breakfast I stopped in at my local ACE hardware store looking at finishes. There was Minwax Tung oil as well as Watco Tung oil. The Minwax was a small can for $15 and the Watco was a big can for $16. So my weird sense of economy said the more expensive the better. Enuf about that. Anyway I bought the Minwax. Since I scroll mostly pine I test Tung oil and BLO. The Tung oil on the left and BLO on the right. The BLO brought out the grain much more. So I'm wondering why use Tung oil. I would like to have a practical finish. I have been satisfied with BLO but perhaps there are other things I would like better.

I used tung oil and spray shellac on my last project. Which was also my first project. The little basket that I made.

[kmmcrafts]

I'm looking forward to read responses as I know barely anything about finishing wood.. short of just dipping in Danish oil or using my homemade beeswax/mineral oil mixture.. JT seems to be the finishing expert I think.. as he's always giving great detailed info on finishing..

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Well Les I am by far no expert but can give some insight. Not too sure what you are asking. Everyone develops over time what they feel is their best finish material weather it be sanding pads or sand paper and also the top coats such as Danish oil and BLO or tung oils. There are many of them on the market and each manufacturer has their own recipes. Many times it comes down to amounts of add on mixtures and nothing else.

With that said the difference between tung oil and BLO is small but discernible. BLO is actually linseed oil and mineral spirits with driers and other catalysts that help dry the liquid. Never want to use pure linseed oil. It will take forever to dry They use to use that alot on telephone poles because it did not dry out. Tung oil is a mixture of varnish and mineral spirits and driers. But you can buy pure tung oil and that is a different horse. Need to read cans. Pure tung oil takes longer to dry. Both dry to a solid state with blo drying faster. The main difference is BLO is an oil that is more yellow thus making grains more pronounced as you have seen. But over time it will yellow even more so especially on woods like pine. Tung oil being a varnish will be lighter in color and yes it too will darken but not as much depending on manufacturers mixtures. Sometimes that is the differences in price and also the name can help there too. Tung oil dries slower and also requires sanding between each coat to get rid of roughness and will take more coats than blo to get the same finish. With blo sand first coat and none after that needed and use less coats. Now the advantage tung oil has over BLO is it is more water resistant than BLO if that is a concern. But not a film finish so do not use that way. All these finishes require warm temps to cure, not just dry. Same with Danish oil. 

Basically comes down to chose and that is why there are so many on the market. Think of tung oil like a polyurethane but with varnish instead so it will be somewhat harder finish but not by much. 

As I mentioned many times here I am a huge fan of Danish oil as my go to finish. I dip my projects and top coat with a Watco satin wax. I use Watco danish oil. Not sure if this answers your question and if not maybe you can put it a different way and I will see what I can do. Good luck.

[NC Scroller]

BLO while it does contain other substances never hardens.  If you did a tissue paper test a month later you would find there is still traces of oil leaching out.  It does not create a solid protective finish.  The tung oil product you mentioned contain tung oil, BLO and other ingredients.  One is likely Poly.  It contains a hardener and does create a hard protective finish. 

[Brianr24]

To keep it simple. There are two main types of drying oils used for wood working. Linseed and tung oil they come from a seed or nut which are drying oils. Non drying oils are mineral, olive oil and some others usually used for food grade (cutting boards). I'm sure it gets more scientific but The main point to take away is the two major players are linseed and tung oil. The major companies take these oils and mix with other components and twist the names for there own type of oil finish usually just adding a quicker dry time and poly for better projection than strAight oil. So really just like anything else u have to try them and see if you find a favorite. But just know they are all just oil finish.one company may do a better job of mixing or use higher quality materials but in my opinion most of it is marketing.

Personally on most of my projects I use BLO first solely to bring out the beauty of wood then oil based poly for protection.

[kmmcrafts]

Couldn't one mix in poly to their 50/50 mix of BLO and mineral spirits to add some protection just as Tung oil and Danish oil do? Of coarse you'd have to figure out a mixing ratio of some sort.. I really like the 50/50 mix I made as it does make the grain pop and gives the wood a soft glow of sheen.. But I also like the fact that Danish oil has a sealer type of something in it.. and it does almost as nice a look.. I just think the BLO gives a slightly better look.. 

I'm not one that likes to spray a finish after I've already finished it. LOL 

[Bill WIlson]

Couple things to keep in mind with these types of products.  Just because the label says "Tung oil" doesn't mean there is any actual tung oil in the product at all.  Often they are simply a thinned varnish (wiping varnish) or an oil/varnish blend (Danish oil).  Finish manufacturers like to play word games and their labeling and advertising can be misleading. 

As for mixing poly, BLO and mineral spirits?  It's done all the time and yes, you can vary the ratio to emphasize the characteristics you want.  Most guys start out by mixing equal portions of the three ingredients, but if you want more protection and sheen, you can go heavier with the poly or oil varnish. 

[NC Scroller]

1 hour ago, kmmcrafts said:

Couldn't one mix in poly to their 50/50 mix of BLO and mineral spirits to add some protection just as Tung oil and Danish oil do? Of coarse you'd have to figure out a mixing ratio of some sort.. I really like the 50/50 mix I made as it does make the grain pop and gives the wood a soft glow of sheen.. But I also like the fact that Danish oil has a sealer type of something in it.. and it does almost as nice a look.. I just think the BLO gives a slightly better look.. 

I'm not one that likes to spray a finish after I've already finished it. LOL 

Many turners I know make a "home brew" of 1 part mineral spirits (MS), 1 part polyurethane and 1 part pure tung oil ( not the stuff that Deft or Minwax sell).  

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

As you can see finishing products can be both complicating and simple at the same time. Alot has to do with the formula used by each manufacturer and that is it. Blo does dry unless no driers were added and again the ratio can determine how fast. No it is not a film finish so no protection. Varnishes or polyurethane can be added which is what Danish oil basically is and when you add those ingredients it now can be classified as a film finish but there are always better ones such as pure polyurethane and pure varnish. There is a difference between varnish and poly but most times get interacted. These ingredients are added to create some of the products out there. Varnish has organic resins and poly has plastic resins (man made) Tung oil is different as I mentioned above. 

It all comes down to reading the labels on the cans and seeing what the ingredients are. You always can look up the MDS sheets on every product on the market. Mixing things to make your own concoction has been done fore years and some even claim secret recipes but that is hogwash. Just about every combination is on the market today and may go by different names. Some may add varnish while some add poly but call it Danish oil so you need to read the cans. Again finding a favorite is a matter of choice and testing for yourself. Take in consideration what the final look is to be as well as use of the item. If an item is going to sit on a wall then any product will work. If it is to be handled then something with a film finish is probably the best.

With all this said always remember safety when working with products like this. Any oils can cause spontaneous combustion so do not store rags in a bunch but either air dry outside or dip in water. Also breathing these fumes is not a good idea and you should know how to protect yourself there.. Absorbing in skin is not a good idea either.  Have fun.

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

29 minutes ago, NC Scroller said:

Many turners I know make a "home brew" of 1 part mineral spirits (MS), 1 part polyurethane and 1 part pure tung oil ( not the stuff that Deft or Minwax sell).  

this is just another concoction some backyard chemist tried. Weather you mix linseed oil or tung oil it still is Danish oil to the core because you added poly. As I said some people use varnish over poly and still called danish oil. Been going on for years. Deft and minwax add driers to the mix which aides is speeding the drying time and that can be important. With turners many times they rely on heat for drying because they spin their work and can hold a rag to it and the piece is usually solid. Scrollsaw work not so much. 

[Rockytime]

Thank you John for your information. I am slowly learning. Problem is whenever I learn one thing I forget two things. Soon I won't know anything.

[kmmcrafts]

So if I understand all this correct.. then all these different finishes tend to be just Tung oil or BLO with different mixture ratio and poly?  I thought all of these different names was different oils.. 

Other day at the store I seen Teak oil.. I don't recall ever seeing anything on the scroll saw forums about this.. I think it was Watco Teak oil? I almost grabbed a small can to try..

 

[NC Scroller]

39 minutes ago, kmmcrafts said:

So if I understand all this correct.. then all these different finishes tend to be just Tung oil or BLO with different mixture ratio and poly?  I thought all of these different names was different oils.. 

Other day at the store I seen Teak oil.. I don't recall ever seeing anything on the scroll saw forums about this.. I think it was Watco Teak oil? I almost grabbed a small can to try..

 

If you go to a Wood craft or Klingspor or other wood working specialty store you can buy pure walnut oil, tung oil, linseed oil, etc.  They are oils like mineral oil.  They are labeled as pure.  They do not contain drier or other substances.  Stuff you buy from Minwax, Watco, Deft, etc are not pure.  

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Kevin, basically if it has the word oil in it it is a penetrating finish which means it gets absorbed into the wood and dries and depending what is mixed with it can harden somewhat. These oils are made from various nuts, seeds and or plants. There are many and there are many different names for the products derived from them. If they are truely pure oils the dry time is greatly increased. Artificial driers are added to shorten this time.  As I said add poly or varnish and now you crossed over to the surface finishes. But again with the amount of mixture will determine its state. That is why Danish oils fall in the middle along with tung oil. Now take the percentages up of polys, shellac, wax, varnish and such and these become strictly surface finishes along with lacquers. Then you get into waterbased and oil based. Broken down even further you get into brush-on, wipe-on, spray or combination. 

The use of all these finishes comes down to the application needed. Feel like wood, withstand elements both surrounding and environmental, ease of use, looks and color, time to dry. Remember when using oils the odor is a factor too and takes longer to dissipate than sealing in with a surface finish.  Finishing is a whole world in itself 

[Bill WIlson]

For those wanting a better understanding of wood finishes, I highly recommend both of these books;

 

https://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Wood-Finishing-Comprehensive-Troubleshooting/dp/1565235665/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?ie=UTF8&qid=1532301945&sr=8-1-spons&keywords=understanding+wood+finishing+bob+flexner&psc=1

https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/tauntons-complete-illustrated-guide-to-finishing-jeff-jewitt/1103130674?ean=9781627107679&st=PLA&sid=BNB_DRS_New+Core+Shopping+Top+Margin+EANs_00000000&2sid=Google_&sourceId=PLGoP211668&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI4rqtpe2z3AIVBEwNCh38iA_LEAQYASABEgJYrPD_BwE

Both books go pretty deep into aspects of finishing and finishes that are probably more than most hobbiest woodworkers want to know, but they are excellent resources for any woodworker who wants to know more about choosing and applying different finishes.  Check them out at the local library if you want to see what they are about, but I think every woodworker should have at least one of these books in their own personal collection.