RBI 226-vs for sale with additional pics added.

[jbrowning]

Can anyone tell me about this saw? I'm thinking for $150.00, it might be a good deal.

 

RBI

Thank you

Jim

Edited August 4, 2018 by jbrowning

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

over $1000 saw new so go from there. What condition does it run, what condition is blower and so forth.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        

[kmmcrafts]

Well as usual there is no great photo of the serial tag.. no good photo of the lower blade clamp to see if it uses the round barrel clamp or the newer square block type.. No view of the motor to know whether it has the problematic motor or not.. With all that said.. I do see what looks like the slotted hole in the stand here you would put a barrel type clamp in to hold it while you change blades out...BUT.. I also see what looks like the blade change holder holes in the framework beam up by the upper arm for the square styled clamps.. I really cannot give you much info on it myself.. 

I would say, go look at it.. take a few blades and maybe he will let you cut on that pile of wood stacked on top of it.. Run the speed dial from slow to fast while cutting and see if it gets real jumpy.. Those older style motors like to surge.. and that is my understanding of what burns up the motor as it'll surge too much power too many times.. My older Hawk does this.. BUT.. only at the highest maybe 7/8 of the dial and higher.. never had an issue below that so i keep it right in the sweet spot below that and that is my main saw I been using.. 

The 226 is a higher dollar saw.. and in my opinion.. if it runs.. it's worth every penny of that and more.. even if you have to change out some worn parts.. I have the 226.. with the square style clamps too.. but my favorite one to use is actually that older 220 with the barrel clamps.. I don't know why other than the upper arm goes up a little higher for easier blade feeding ( bottom feeder here).. and most of the older Hawks are bottom feed only.. 

You can email the seller and get the serial number and call buston and they should be able to tell you the year of the machine.. and if it has that older motor.. personally I wuldn't worry about the motor at that price you can afford to put $300 for a new motor and controller assembly at most likely get your money out of it by selling it or use it..  Just My opinion...

The New 226 BM series Hawks are $1400 + shipping which I believe equates to around $1600.. which is basically the same thing with a few upgrades

Edited August 4, 2018 by kmmcrafts

[jbrowning]

Here are a few more pics she sent me. The serial number is 10961. Is there a way I can look that number up on the Hawk website?

 

 

I hope these help out some.

She did say she thought the tension spring needed replacing.

I'm thinking sometime this weekend I will be going and looking at this.

Thanks for taking the time to reply John and Kevin.

Jim

Edited August 4, 2018 by jbrowning

[kmmcrafts]

Well a closer look.. I think it's a Ultra series which is like my newer one.. should have the square style clamps.. and I believe it will have two slots in the lower arm for the blade clamp to fit into.. front slot for less aggressive cutting and the back slot for thick wood or aggressive cuts..

As for the tension spring.. not sure what she is referring to so.. I'm going to guess at what the issue is.. and maybe what you can look for..

The upper clamp has a sort of cam on it where the tension lever is.. This cam has a set screw ( very small allen wrench needed ) that you turn  to adjust this.. I'm guessing it's out of adjustment.. BUT.. it could be worn out too.. I think the cam thing can be changed out but not sure? The whole mechanism ( upper tension lever whole pivoting portion etc ) runs about $50 i think.. I changed - updated it on my old saw as it didn't have any adjustment set screw..

I believe this saw would have the newer motor ( but not positive ).. I think the ultra series came out in 1996 and was maybe made until the G4 came out maybe? Not sure .. Don't know when the G4 came out.. Thinking around 2004-5? They may have still made the ultra in the G4 era too I don't know..

I'd say it should be well worth $150.. Problem is.. if the tension lever is out of adjustment.. you may not be able to try the saw out... Oh.. yes you can maybe.. depending on how worn or out of adjustment it is.. You can take a rubber band to wrap around the upper arm and the tension lever to hold it down.. Usually what happens is the cam lever won't stay locked in place.. but if you take a rubber band or something to sort of hold it down you can use it or at least test it ( hopefully ).. This is what Bushton told me to do until I got my new mechanism for my older saw if I needed to run it..     

Edit to add: That set screw for the cam adjustment is on the underside of the front pivoting portion.. should be back about the area where the lever goes into the arm.. I'd say take a set of small allen wrenches with you and you could maybe adjust it up until it gets some tension.. I can't remember the procedure off the top of my head though.. However you may not want to fix it.. then she might want more money for it since it's such a simple fix and may not actually need parts, LOL 

;

Edited August 4, 2018 by kmmcrafts

[kmmcrafts]

Below is a link to the PDF manual on their site for the ultra style saws.. I didn't see the adjustment procedure. I have a paper that came with my new clamp for the older saw that has the instructions on it.. I'd have to look for it..  Anyway.. if you go to the parts list.. #20 is the cam just to give you a visual your tension lever goes through the cam.. you'll turn that set screw in just enough to put some pressure on that lever as you would lock the tension on the blade..  

This should also show you how to install the blades etc. if you're not familiar with the Hawk saws. Might look through it before going to look at the saw..

http://www.bushtonmanufacturing.com/files/SawManuals/Model_226pro_serial_1636-3100.pdf

   

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

If you are talking about the quick release lever up front, it is a quick easy fix. Here are the parts that come in the kit. The barrel pin is what holds it on. Pop that out and that is it.

Edited August 4, 2018 by JTTHECLOCKMAN

[kmmcrafts]

Thanks for posting that picture JT..

I'm thinking this is what she means when she says tension spring.. there is no spring.. other than the arm spring at the back of the saw.. and not really anything to do with the tension.. only just holds the arm up for you for blade changes.. and in the photo.. it shows the arm in the up position.. so I don't think that is what she is talking about..  

[kmmcrafts]

My 226 is a 98 according to Bushton.. and my serial number is 10290.. so I guessing it's newer than mine.. by how much, I don't know.. definitely would have the newer better motor I would think.. as mine does..

[jbrowning]

Thanks for all the input Kevin and John. Just looking at the motor is there anyway of telling the difference between the old style motor and the newer style motor? I'm wondering if she is talking about the spring that is shown on page 10. Right under that picture it says Blade Tension Adjustment.

Edited August 4, 2018 by jbrowning

[SCROLLSAW703]

Personally, were it me, I would ask her to send you a picture or two of the back end of the saw where the tension spring is. If it's what I think it is, two screws & five minutes will fix that issue. No doubt, like KM mentioned, the tension at the nose of the top arm needs adjusted. And that's a snap to adjust as well as long as the cam isn't shot. My next concern would be the shape of the tension wedge at the back of the saw. They are two completely different things. If that wedge is shot, it won't hold tension, either. My guess would be, by the looks of it, it uses the square blade holders, which are easier to use than the barrel type holders. I would be cautious of the the motor & control box. If it hasn't been looked after well, the control box fills with sawdust & can create a short out in the variable speed or on/off switch. The motor, if it's the older saw, may have a tendency to power down in thicker material, surge under pressure, or even flip the overload if it is in very bad shape. The conversion kit & replacement motor for it is about $300. I believe KM mentioned that. If that wedge at the back of the saw is to far gone, it will mean sending the top arm to Bushton for machine work or replacement, & replacing that wedge. It has to have constant lubrication. Were I you, I would look it over & get the serial number off it. Run it, try a few blades in it & If it will hold tension & cut that lumber storage stacked on it, SERIOUSLY move the variable speed around to see what the motor will do. LISTEN TO THE SAW CAREFULLY! Then I'd call Bushton & chat with them to get some idea of it's age & value. For the money, it's a steal for a 226. I gave $1200 for my BM 226 right from the plant. I picked it up. Call Bushton & talk to them about it. You'll be glad you did! 

Edited August 4, 2018 by SCROLLSAW703

[SCROLLSAW703]

That's the one, J. You're lookin' at the right picture.

[kmmcrafts]

7 hours ago, jbrowning said:

Thanks for all the input Kevin and John. Just looking at the motor is there anyway of telling the difference between the old style motor and the newer style motor? I'm wondering if she is talking about the spring that is shown on page 10. Right under that picture it says Blade Tension Adjustment.

That is the spring I mentioned that really doesn't do anything other than hold the upper arm up when the blade is is disconnected.. Which in the photos it shows the arm in the up position..  Now.. there may be another purpose of that spring? I don't know.. but I've run my saw without it for some test runs while doing some work to it.. I didn't notice any difference other that it kept falling down on me while trying to thread the blade through another hole..

From the picture.. in the link you posted there is a good view of the wedge that Brad mentioned.. that wedge should be quite pointed.. not rounded off.. but not sharp either.. I thought it looked to be in descent shape in the photo..

As for the motor.. visually the older motor is big.. there is a way to know but I forgot ( old age I guess ) The older motor is pretty good sized while the newer motor is a smaller one more like the size of the DeWalt Excalibur size motors.. When I say big I mean diameter.. I'll go out and take a photo of my older one and my newer one so you'll have an idea of how they look.

From what I've seen.. the 26" saws are typically priced from $400 - 650  just to give an idea of how this one is priced.. actually see them for more than $650 but they typically set on them for months to sell them too.. but they seem to move fairly quick around the $400 - 600 range. 

Edited August 4, 2018 by kmmcrafts

[kmmcrafts]

First picture is the old style motor that is the problematic one. 

Second picture is the newer style motor. 

 

[SCROLLSAW703]

Yes, the bigger motors are more problematic, & do not run as fast as the new ones do. Nor do they run as cool as the new ones. That is part of the issue w/the old motors. And KM is correct, the wedge should have a dull point to it. If it to sharp of a point, you can file it down some. If it is rounded off, it's shot & will not hold tension. Please keep in mind this the critical part of Hawks tension system. It revolves around that wedge. As I mentioned before, and from experience, If that wedge is rounded off to the point where it will not hold tension, most likely the top arm will need machine work to correctly fit a new wedge. And only Bushton themselves can look after that for you. And yes, the spring mentioned is for nothing but to keep the top arm up when changing blades. It can be bought at your local hardware store. The manual should show the size of the spring. Also, another thing, check out the condition of air bellows & air line. If it's in sorry condition, Bushton has replacement locking & bellows. A 15 minute fix. Take all this into consideration when you're looking at the saw. If it needs repairs, point it out to the owner & make her an offer from there. Be fair with your offer, & most of All, be kind. God Bless & good luck!

[jbrowning]

Could someone show me where the wedge is located at please?

[kmmcrafts]

5 minutes ago, jbrowning said:

Could someone show me where the wedge is located at please?

This is one of the pictures of the saw in the link you posted .. good view of the wedge.. this photo shows the wedge at the back of the saw just below the tension cam lever.. Hawk has two tension cam levers.. this one at the back is where you adjust the tension.. the one at the front is more of a quick release for blade changes and makes fretwork much nicer than having to reach to the back.. 

[jbrowning]

So from this view can you tell if the wedge looks like it is in decent shape?

[kmmcrafts]

13 minutes ago, jbrowning said:

So from this view can you tell if the wedge looks like it is in decent shape?

Appears to be in good condition to me..   

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

42 minutes ago, jbrowning said:

So from this view can you tell if the wedge looks like it is in decent shape?

It absolutely does. Looks fine. That wedge should hardly ever get moved. I probably changed tension with that maybe 4 or 5 times in my lifetime of this saw. I work off the front blade tension lever and changed those once on each of my 226 and 220 saws. Once set you should never have to touch again unless you are using a huge blade difference such as #1 to a #12. I stay in the #5 range and good to go. Now If I go up or down I do not need to touch that cam again. As I said all the parts these people are telling you about are replaceable and yes they cost $$$ new but you are getting a $1200 saw for $150 and see if she would take $100 I would not hesitate if it runs and the VS works. All other parts are cheap. The money is in the motor and electronics. 

 

Will point out this is a Hawk ultra saw that uses the square blade holders so it is a new version. I also knows this because the front air tube has an articulating front end. Unless she replaced this with a replacement part the first series of this model with the square blocks did not come with this feature. It was a straight tube with a clamp on the side arm and you positioned it by hand for direction of air blowing. They all now come with the articulating blower hose. 

http://www.rbiwoodtools.com/About-Us.html

Edited August 4, 2018 by JTTHECLOCKMAN

[jbrowning]

Thanks everyone for your input and clearing up some things, I will be taking a trip to look at this saw tomorrow. I will let you know what happens.

[kmmcrafts]

2 minutes ago, jbrowning said:

Thanks everyone for your input and clearing up some things, I will be taking a trip to look at this saw tomorrow. I will let you know what happens.

Good luck! from what I'm seeing in the pictures.. It's a steal of a deal.. hopefully it'll still be there tomorrow..

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

As I said if I did not have enough saws already I would offer her 100 to 125 and run with saw in tow if she accepts. Especially if it runs and VS is good. 

[kmmcrafts]

Just to show you what you might get into if you need parts for that front tension lever.. Parts are cheap.. and even if you need a whole assembly it's only $50.. the cam I was mentioning is only $12.50..  But anyway.. here is a link to the parts for that front portion of the saw..

http://stores.bushtonhawkstore.com/upper-blade-holder-bracket/

[jbrowning]

Well, if I get it (and yes she is holding it for me) I will do a little video around and you all can tell me what you think of it since you all know what you/re looking at. And heck maybe some weekend I will take a little road trip to see the folks in Kansas as long as they aren't in the field.