selling my work

[rljohn56]

ok, now that my family has gotten several presents made by me and has put my name out there this year a lot of friends are asking me to do Christmas/Birthday projects for them also. I thought i had asked this question a while back, but i couldn't find the replies. So how do i go about figuring out what to charge for these projects? I've pondered trying to keep track of how long it takes me, but i'll get distracted and forget to stop or start my timer for each sessions i'm working. I estimated the cost work materials that's fairly easy, but it's the time invested that i just can't figure out. I'm not out to gouge anyone, but it would be nice to be compensated for the time involved.  Most of the patterns i'm using i've bought so i'm not having to factor in designing. i've enclosed just a few samples of what i've done.  right now i have 29 offers for Christmas! Glad i've started early! LOL  thanks, gang, for all your tips, replies and advices in advance.  ray johnson

[dgman]

Well Ray, everyone is going to shoot you a formula of how to price. But for me, formulas don’t work. The way I price is, I look at it and ask myself, what would I pay for this if I wanted to buy it? I have been selling for a few year now and have found that customers don’t care that this piece is made from exotic woods and they don’t care how long it took to make it. They do know that it looks cool and they would like to buy it if it’s priced right. Now mind you, I don’t give it away. I sell my items for a good price, but affordable. I’m not going to get rich selling, but I certainly am not loosing money either. 

For the Deer scene I would price at $25-$35. The puppy and kittens portrait maybe $40 and the garage band portrait $25 unframed.

Edited August 21, 2018 by dgman

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

I agree the price thing is so subjective and when you get better you get faster and more efficient so labor wise those won't add up. I have been doing this for many years and just have a feel for items after awhile. You get a catagory and make your prices just about the same and add if you have to use better material or more of it. The $10/hr thing always seemed like a fair number but as I said this will change with experience so. Whatever you do establish a price and do not waiver from it. Do not start charging friends and relatives different prices because they all talk. I believe the numbers given above are fair. Remember too location and customer base differ from seller to seller. Good luck and get busy. I have a shelf my brother and his wife want me to make but have to put it off because I have so many other projects going on. I also know no money there to be made

[OCtoolguy]

I recently posed this same question. I got some very good answers and advice. What I have come to is this. I look around out there at what people are spending on cheap imported mass produced crap and decided that I would put a price on what I make that makes me happy. If nobody buys what I have to sell, well at least I enjoyed making it. I'm not going to be Jesse James and hold folks up but on the other hand, I"m not the Tooth Fairy either. My time is just as valuable as anybody else's and the materials are not cheap. So, as a very new novice to this world of scrolling I would say, put a price on your stuff that will make you happy if you sell it. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[John B]

G'day Ray,
I find that I "guestimate" the time involved in a project. I am usually working on a number of things at once, so an accurate time is not possible, or more like I can't be bothered spending the time to time the time taken .
I have found over the years that there are a number of sticking price points eg $20, $50, $70, $100, $150 etc. That is if you can price under these, good, If you have to go above you may as well go quite a bit above. EG if someone is prepared to pay $50 they will in all likelihood not baulk at $65.
I use roughly $20 per hour, it's always an under estimate, as I don't factor in time taken to purchase timber, hardware or travel etc. Then I have a good look at the piece and decide the asking price. As JT has said, make notes of the prices you sell pieces for, because you can bet your life, if you take a punt as you can't remember what you sold it for previously it will come back to bight you on the behind.
The main thing is to ask yourself what you want out of the work, Enough to replace materials, buy a new tool every now and again and have a beer, or do want it to supplement your income?.

[rljohn56]

Thank you ! Thank you! thank you!  It's true i get excited when someone asks me to make something for them because it means they like what i do, but also because i like seeing a project go from start to finish.  I don't know about the rest of you , but every time i finish one i always seem to catch myself saying, that turned out better than i had thought! As for the pricing ideas it gives me a base to work with now.  ray johnson

[bandaideman]

Ray nice work. I will give you an idea of keeping track of time. I did for a time when I first got started keep track of time because everybody liked the work and asked HOw long did that take. So I had a foot switch for the saw and used a triple plug on the saw and switch and a electric clock. The clock would stop and go when the foot switch was depressed. Problem is to remember to write it down before diving into the next project. I stopped that and do what others have said. Sorry but on real involved work you won't get a good hourly wage anyway. 

[WayneMahler]

Nice work. Looks impressive. Pricing has been discussed many times. I base mine on time spent and time to draw it up plus a marginal cost for materials. 

[stevan]

Hey Ray.  That's nice work.  I don't want to hijack your message thread too much but where did you get the second pattern?

 

[orangeman]

You said you had offers. How much did they offer?

I can tell from experience with puzzles that "whimsical" sells.

I think cartoons would be a good seller but then you need to consider the copyright factor unless you design your own.

I have purchased images for small change and use them for puzzles. Just need to check out their licensing agreements and make sure you can sell what you make.

Best advice of pricing: charge what the market will bear. Mr Market knows all.

I know that's not much help but you will just have to test the waters.

bb

[kmmcrafts]

26 minutes ago, orangeman said:

You said you had offers. How much did they offer?

I can tell from experience with puzzles that "whimsical" sells.

I think cartoons would be a good seller but then you need to consider the copyright factor unless you design your own.

I have purchased images for small change and use them for puzzles. Just need to check out their licensing agreements and make sure you can sell what you make.

Best advice of pricing: charge what the market will bear. Mr Market knows all.

I know that's not much help but you will just have to test the waters.

bb

Best advice I've seen.. You really have to just test the waters and see what works for you and in doing the testing... yes you will loose and win.. I don't look at loosing money as a loss.. because it is also a learning experience that you can't get without trying..

 

[kmmcrafts]

The mentality of pricing something as to how much "YOU" would pay is a poor business decision.. because the market might pay much more than what "YOU" think it's worth.. Some people can go to a dollar store and say the prices are too much.. while others can go to a high end shop and say the prices are too cheap... there are people that value cheap prices as cheap junk.. and there are people that value those cheap prices.. then there are people that say they wouldn't pay that much for something.. then there are people that will brag about how much they paid for something as if they are rich and bragging about it...

I have a relative that makes good money.. he values things by the price tag anywhere he shops.. he looks for the high priced things.. The same person that bought a pair of $750 sunglasses.. and was gloating about how expensive they are to everyone on a vacation trip we took together.. he talked about them our whole trip and how much they are.. their made of x material and are unbreakable.. hands them to everyone and says.. bend them up try to break them.. don't worry they have a 5 year warranty not to break.. I had to laugh when we went tubing and he lost them in the river.. asked what kind of warranty they offer for them being lost..  

I did a test a few years ago with my relative on the pricing theory.. I made two ornaments ( same pattern.. also same material ) just for kicks.. I stained one of them.. with walnut stain.. I showed both to him and said which one do you like best and you can have it.. I could see he was liking the stained one better.. ( every time he sees things made of walnut he loves that wood partly because he has heard it is somewhat pricey wood ) )he said he liked the stained one but liked both.. he asked about what kind of wood they was.. I explained that the stained one is just some cheaper plywood but I liked the coloring of it.. but the other ( unstained one ) was a rare plywood called Baltic Birch and is kind of expensive.. He really liked the stained one but because of the story behind the plain one he chose that one..

My point here is... sometimes.. showing confidence and knowing how to sell something and what kind of info you give on a piece is what make a sale.. My father use to say a good salesman could sell a rock for $20 dollars and a bad salesman can't even give it away.. Just thinking back to the days of the pet rocks,  Not saying you should lie about your items.. but how you present them and how YOU show the value of them can determine a higher or lower price.

That all being said.. my family and friends I tell them how much I sell them for.. and that.. they can pay the price - 20% from the website.. or if/when I get time I can make it for them for free in my spare time ( which I almost never have on purpose )   .. The time I spend making them something for free is the same time i could be making something else for money.. so they either pay up or don't get it.. forget about it or whatever..

Personally I pay myself a set amount per hour wage..and since it's a skilled trade and takes expensive tools to make my items I don't mean a minimum wage type of hourly rate either.. I set my prices based on this hourly wage.. then I mark it up from there as to supply / demand.. obviously materials etc.. are also factored in.. I started off real low priced.. gradually learned that it was too low priced.. also leaning that sometimes higher priced sells better than cheap priced.. I just raised a lot of my prices a few weeks ago in hopes of slowing sales down slightly... it did just the opposite.. and each time I've done this.. has had the same effect..I may be raising prices slightly again.. last one was a big jump.. every clock went up by $10 and thinking of adding another 10.. they was on the low end of pricing for me to make my money anyway.. and selling cost for the web site etc have increased etc..  

[OCtoolguy]

4 hours ago, kmmcrafts said:

The mentality of pricing something as to how much "YOU" would pay is a poor business decision.. because the market might pay much more than what "YOU" think it's worth.. Some people can go to a dollar store and say the prices are too much.. while others can go to a high end shop and say the prices are too cheap... there are people that value cheap prices as cheap junk.. and there are people that value those cheap prices.. then there are people that say they wouldn't pay that much for something.. then there are people that will brag about how much they paid for something as if they are rich and bragging about it...

I have a relative that makes good money.. he values things by the price tag anywhere he shops.. he looks for the high priced things.. The same person that bought a pair of $750 sunglasses.. and was gloating about how expensive they are to everyone on a vacation trip we took together.. he talked about them our whole trip and how much they are.. their made of x material and are unbreakable.. hands them to everyone and says.. bend them up try to break them.. don't worry they have a 5 year warranty not to break.. I had to laugh when we went tubing and he lost them in the river.. asked what kind of warranty they offer for them being lost..  

I did a test a few years ago with my relative on the pricing theory.. I made two ornaments ( same pattern.. also same material ) just for kicks.. I stained one of them.. with walnut stain.. I showed both to him and said which one do you like best and you can have it.. I could see he was liking the stained one better.. ( every time he sees things made of walnut he loves that wood partly because he has heard it is somewhat pricey wood ) )he said he liked the stained one but liked both.. he asked about what kind of wood they was.. I explained that the stained one is just some cheaper plywood but I liked the coloring of it.. but the other ( unstained one ) was a rare plywood called Baltic Birch and is kind of expensive.. He really liked the stained one but because of the story behind the plain one he chose that one..

My point here is... sometimes.. showing confidence and knowing how to sell something and what kind of info you give on a piece is what make a sale.. My father use to say a good salesman could sell a rock for $20 dollars and a bad salesman can't even give it away.. Just thinking back to the days of the pet rocks,  Not saying you should lie about your items.. but how you present them and how YOU show the value of them can determine a higher or lower price.

That all being said.. my family and friends I tell them how much I sell them for.. and that.. they can pay the price - 20% from the website.. or if/when I get time I can make it for them for free in my spare time ( which I almost never have on purpose )   .. The time I spend making them something for free is the same time i could be making something else for money.. so they either pay up or don't get it.. forget about it or whatever..

Personally I pay myself a set amount per hour wage..and since it's a skilled trade and takes expensive tools to make my items I don't mean a minimum wage type of hourly rate either.. I set my prices based on this hourly wage.. then I mark it up from there as to supply / demand.. obviously materials etc.. are also factored in.. I started off real low priced.. gradually learned that it was too low priced.. also leaning that sometimes higher priced sells better than cheap priced.. I just raised a lot of my prices a few weeks ago in hopes of slowing sales down slightly... it did just the opposite.. and each time I've done this.. has had the same effect..I may be raising prices slightly again.. last one was a big jump.. every clock went up by $10 and thinking of adding another 10.. they was on the low end of pricing for me to make my money anyway.. and selling cost for the web site etc have increased etc..  

Kevin, I can relate to one of the things you wrote. Years ago, when I was in the real estate business, I had bought a small piece of land that we were going to build on. Well, we never did so I put it up for sale with a price that would have given us back what we paid for it. It sat there for a few months and didn't sell. So, I took it off the market for a couple of months and then re-listed it about 25% higher. The renewed listing got some interest by other agents and it sold for the higher price. So, yes, sometimes you have to "overprice" something to get it sold.

 

[rjweb]

I was in the wallpaper and paint business52 years,  customers homes and commerical projects, we had a saying. if we had 10 jobs to estimate and got 8 to 9 of those jobs, then the prices were too low, so we shot for 60 % or 6 out of 10 jobs estimated, RJ

[dgman]

9 hours ago, kmmcrafts said:

The mentality of pricing something as to how much "YOU" would pay is a poor business decision.. because the market might pay much more than what "YOU" think it's worth.. Some people can go to a dollar store and say the prices are too much.. while others can go to a high end shop and say the prices are too cheap... there are people that value cheap prices as cheap junk.. and there are people that value those cheap prices.. then there are people that say they wouldn't pay that much for something.. then there are people that will brag about how much they paid for something as if they are rich and bragging about it...

I have a relative that makes good money.. he values things by the price tag anywhere he shops.. he looks for the high priced things.. The same person that bought a pair of $750 sunglasses.. and was gloating about how expensive they are to everyone on a vacation trip we took together.. he talked about them our whole trip and how much they are.. their made of x material and are unbreakable.. hands them to everyone and says.. bend them up try to break them.. don't worry they have a 5 year warranty not to break.. I had to laugh when we went tubing and he lost them in the river.. asked what kind of warranty they offer for them being lost..  

I did a test a few years ago with my relative on the pricing theory.. I made two ornaments ( same pattern.. also same material ) just for kicks.. I stained one of them.. with walnut stain.. I showed both to him and said which one do you like best and you can have it.. I could see he was liking the stained one better.. ( every time he sees things made of walnut he loves that wood partly because he has heard it is somewhat pricey wood ) )he said he liked the stained one but liked both.. he asked about what kind of wood they was.. I explained that the stained one is just some cheaper plywood but I liked the coloring of it.. but the other ( unstained one ) was a rare plywood called Baltic Birch and is kind of expensive.. He really liked the stained one but because of the story behind the plain one he chose that one..

My point here is... sometimes.. showing confidence and knowing how to sell something and what kind of info you give on a piece is what make a sale.. My father use to say a good salesman could sell a rock for $20 dollars and a bad salesman can't even give it away.. Just thinking back to the days of the pet rocks,  Not saying you should lie about your items.. but how you present them and how YOU show the value of them can determine a higher or lower price.

That all being said.. my family and friends I tell them how much I sell them for.. and that.. they can pay the price - 20% from the website.. or if/when I get time I can make it for them for free in my spare time ( which I almost never have on purpose )   .. The time I spend making them something for free is the same time i could be making something else for money.. so they either pay up or don't get it.. forget about it or whatever..

Personally I pay myself a set amount per hour wage..and since it's a skilled trade and takes expensive tools to make my items I don't mean a minimum wage type of hourly rate either.. I set my prices based on this hourly wage.. then I mark it up from there as to supply / demand.. obviously materials etc.. are also factored in.. I started off real low priced.. gradually learned that it was too low priced.. also leaning that sometimes higher priced sells better than cheap priced.. I just raised a lot of my prices a few weeks ago in hopes of slowing sales down slightly... it did just the opposite.. and each time I've done this.. has had the same effect..I may be raising prices slightly again.. last one was a big jump.. every clock went up by $10 and thinking of adding another 10.. they was on the low end of pricing for me to make my money anyway.. and selling cost for the web site etc have increased etc..  

Kevin, I always thought that your business model of making an item after it is order was silly but it works for you. The way I price items works for me and has for several years. I do adjust prices as items sell or don’t sell. I have posted before on how I had two of an item that did not sell. So I raised the price from $30 to $45. I sold both that day. I made four the next year and sold them. This year I made six, and I think I will raise the price again. So I am flexible on prices. The formula of time x materials just doesn’t work for me.

[kmmcrafts]

10 minutes ago, dgman said:

Kevin, I always thought that your business model of making an item after it is order was silly but it works for you. The way I price items works for me and has for several years. I do adjust prices as items sell or don’t sell. I have posted before on how I had two of an item that did not sell. So I raised the price from $30 to $45. I sold both that day. I made four the next year and sold them. This year I made six, and I think I will raise the price again. So I am flexible on prices. The formula of time x materials just doesn’t work for me.

I do inventory my hottest sellers to an extent.. but yeah it does work for me in that I don't have to have a boat load of inventory made sitting around waiting to be sold.. many of my customers want something personalized and I found that personalized names text or whatever it is was selling faster than the inventory I had on hand... so now I somewhat stockpile cut out stuff but don't attach the base and put the finish on because they may want it personalized.. I keep most ornaments on hand because they are small and easy to store.. almost always sell them so i do now stock 20 of each style ornament.. Dang.. that was a lot of cutting this spring / summer since i had hardly any on hand after last Christmas... and I have almost 200 different styles.. still working to build up that inventory.. starting with my hottest selling ones and working my way down that list... and still trying to add new ones to the mix, as returning customers like to come and see what's new.. not the same Old same Old stuff...  LOL 

[NC Scroller]

There are two factors that have not come up yet.  That is quality and location.  I have been to craft shows and seen people trying to sell pieces that don't rate the burn pile.  You know unsanded, bubble in the finish, broken fret work, cheap materials,etc. This effects the pricing.  Your pictures seem to show quality craftsmanship.  More importantly is your location.  I live in a rural area in the middle of now where.  I can't get the same prices as the folks in the suburbs of Washington DC or New York or Denver.

[OPi]

My method of tracking time is to set my timer for either 15 or 20 minutes, depending on the wood - very hard wood is 15, softer is for 20. I can keep from getting distracted for that amount of time. When the timer dings, I make a mark and then change the blade. This method keeps me from using a blade after it has become too dull to do quality work.

As for pricing - YOYO - You're On Your Own - no advice from me on that, still trying to figure that out for myself. (I pretty sure that is the right one, or should it have been advise??}

Quote

 

 

[kmmcrafts]

4 hours ago, NC Scroller said:

There are two factors that have not come up yet.  That is quality and location.  I have been to craft shows and seen people trying to sell pieces that don't rate the burn pile.  You know unsanded, bubble in the finish, broken fret work, cheap materials,etc. This effects the pricing.  Your pictures seem to show quality craftsmanship.  More importantly is your location.  I live in a rural area in the middle of now where.  I can't get the same prices as the folks in the suburbs of Washington DC or New York or Denver.

You are correct..

I always forget about location as my only experience is selling online.. and last I checked.. the internet was world wide   with that said.. I have a pretty good idea of what states and countries have money.. Send a lot of stuff to CA TX NY FL DC NC and to the UK Australia ...

[NLAlston]

On 8/21/2018 at 2:12 AM, octoolguy said:

I recently posed this same question. I got some very good answers and advice. What I have come to is this. I look around out there at what people are spending on cheap imported mass produced crap and decided that I would put a price on what I make that makes me happy. If nobody buys what I have to sell, well at least I enjoyed making it. I'm not going to be Jesse James and hold folks up but on the other hand, I"m not the Tooth Fairy either. My time is just as valuable as anybody else's and the materials are not cheap. So, as a very new novice to this world of scrolling I would say, put a price on your stuff that will make you happy if you sell it. Nothing more, nothing less.

And this is MY position on selling, also.  Yes, I sell, to help fund the needs of my shop, and to reward me for the time that I've spent away from family, in creating what I do.  Some folk will understand, and appreciate items that were made by a craftsman/craftswoman.  It doesn't matter if it is by a newbie, or from someone who's been doing it for half a lifetime.  The bottom line is that it is a non-mass produced item, which deserves a different kind of appreciation.  Some, will NOT make such considerations, and will equate your pricings against those which could be found in your local outlets, for similar items.  I set my prices fairly, and they will be what they are.  If they buy from me, then fine.  If they do not, that's ALSO ok.  SOMEONE will buy what I'm selling, at SOME point.  

6

 

[wombatie]

I chicken out and ask my family and friend s what they would pay and I go with the middle answer.  We all do it differently I guess its the million dollar question. 

Marg

[crupiea]

I don't make stuff for friends and family.  They don't appreciate it. They might like it ok but I put a lot of passion into what I do and I think I deserve to be paid for it. If I want them to have something I just give it to them.

I also don't do commission stuff.  Again, people don't understand what is involved in what they think might be a simple piece.

[SCROLLSAW703]

Everything that's been mentioned is all excellent advice, and several points to take into consideration. 

I've been doing this several years myself. Two major things I've learned from my customers is once they set their mind to investing in your work, price is always negotiable. Second, pay CLOSE ATTENTION TO THE ECONOMY YOU LIVE IN. Don't price yourself out of a job! 

I live in a small agriculture community in NW Kansas. Farmers, cattlemen, truck drivers, a few Bible thumpers here, and a A LOT of "I'm better'n you because...." My point is, folks got this ferocious idea that farmers & ranchers are rich! They are just like you & I. Just some have perfected the art of bullsh**in', and should have been fishermen! 

Adjust your prices to fit the economy around you. The more detailed it is, or the more pricey the lumber is, adjust your price & be willing to negotiate, but set a price you WILL not go under & stick to your guns. The first project money you lose money on, you'll keep losin' money from there on.

Myself, I avoid family projects at all cost unless I see the money first. I don't make it a habit of workin' for free for anybody. I charge $18/hour at the saw, & $25/hour shop time, no matter what it is. Shop materials are figured in by receipts to the project, & lumber is charged out by the bdft x 25%. The price of hardwood in this part of the world makes the Devil his self scream! All these figures may sound pricey, but my usual prices range from $25 - $300. It just depends on what all the project entails. And I do not keep much inventory anymore. It's a waste of time, money, & space. I work by the project, except at Christmas time.

[OCtoolguy]

16 hours ago, SCROLLSAW703 said:

Everything that's been mentioned is all excellent advice, and several points to take into consideration. 

I've been doing this several years myself. Two major things I've learned from my customers is once they set their mind to investing in your work, price is always negotiable. Second, pay CLOSE ATTENTION TO THE ECONOMY YOU LIVE IN. Don't price yourself out of a job! 

I live in a small agriculture community in NW Kansas. Farmers, cattlemen, truck drivers, a few Bible thumpers here, and a A LOT of "I'm better'n you because...." My point is, folks got this ferocious idea that farmers & ranchers are rich! They are just like you & I. Just some have perfected the art of bullsh**in', and should have been fishermen! 

Adjust your prices to fit the economy around you. The more detailed it is, or the more pricey the lumber is, adjust your price & be willing to negotiate, but set a price you WILL not go under & stick to your guns. The first project money you lose money on, you'll keep losin' money from there on.

Myself, I avoid family projects at all cost unless I see the money first. I don't make it a habit of workin' for free for anybody. I charge $18/hour at the saw, & $25/hour shop time, no matter what it is. Shop materials are figured in by receipts to the project, & lumber is charged out by the bdft x 25%. The price of hardwood in this part of the world makes the Devil his self scream! All these figures may sound pricey, but my usual prices range from $25 - $300. It just depends on what all the project entails. And I do not keep much inventory anymore. It's a waste of time, money, & space. I work by the project, except at Christmas time.

Brad, do you have a gallery of what you do? I'd like to see some of what you make. Just curious.

 

[SCROLLSAW703]

Hello Ray,

As a matter of fact, I do, of sort. I have a facebook page with most of my projects on it. I get more orders from my fb page than I ever did with a web page. My fb page is sawdust haven - St. Francis, KS. I don't have prices on the projects because of the variance in wood price & detail for the customer, & it allows the customer to make changes to the project if they so desire before I start to cut. Have a look see & let me know what ya think, Mr. Ray. Please don't go into my page with high expectations, Mr. Ray. I'm just a beginner still learnin' the ropes, & all my projects are cut on my Hawk BM 226 or my Hitachi CW - 40. Enjoy your day, friend.