Questions about scrollsaws

[Oldmansbike]

My daughter has watched me make things on a scrollsaw over the years and decided she would like to give it a try. I have been looking for a used Hawk saw around our area but so far they have been too much money or to far away. A Hawk saw is the only saw ,Other than the Ryobi I started with that I have used. I have toyed with the idea of giving her my Hawk and buying myself a new saw but I don't know what I would buy. What would the main differences be between a Hegner,Excaliber,Seyco compared to my Hawk? I could buy a new Hawk but maybe the other high end saws offer something better. I do mostly fretwork.  Thanks

[Rockytime]

In my humble opinion nothing runs like a dee, er ah a Hawk. But then what do I know as that is what I have.

[Scrappile]

Well, this is hard... To each his own... I have had Craftsman, DeWalt, Excalibur, Hegner and Seyco.  I can only say of these saws, if I could only have one,,, Hegner would be it..  Excalibur second and Seyco third, only because I like the head tilting on the Excalibur a little better than the Seyco... I can not speak for the Hawk.  I would really love to get one to try.  Maybe one of these days I will.

[WayneMahler]

I use an Ex and would swear by it. Depends on what your looking for in a saw. 

[Oldmansbike]

I'm mainly looking for how the blade is changed. I really like the way blades are changed on my Hawk and just wondered if the rest were similar. I looked at a Porter Cable in Lowes and there is no way I could get my fat fingers in there to the lower clamp.

[Bill WIlson]

I bought an Excalibur a few years ago and the main reason was that it was very similar to the DeWalt it was replacing, that I had owned for over 10 years.  I considered Hawk and Hegner and while I'm certain I could have gotten used to a different style of saw, the reputation of the EX gave me confidence that I was making a good choice.

My point is, if you are currently happy with the Hawk, why not get another one?  I've read many posts from users and can't recall too many that ever had anything negative to say about them.  That seems like the lowest risk option.  If the new saw will be for your daughter, the Dewalt/Delta saws are very user friendly and would be easy for her to learn, but then again, the Hawk would be easier for you to teach her.

Good luck and have fun making sawdust!

[kmmcrafts]

I started off with a old Delta two speed 16" saw model 40-560 I think it was.. still have it as it was my Fathers first saw.. Then that broke and while waiting on parts to repair it I borrowed my brothers Ryobi and I think it was a SC164VS.. Saved some money and bought a 16" craftsman not sure the model but had a angle guide built into the table.. not sure why I mention this saw because I never used it.. brought it home and unboxed it.. thing vibrated right off the bench almost.. and the variable speed wasn't working.. so I packed it back up and took it back.. saved a little more money and bought a Dremel 1800 that had the disc sander on the side.. used it for about a year and wore out the connecting rod at the back of the saw that connects the upper and lower arms.. ordered parts and repaired it and within 6 months it was getting worn again.. so saved up and bought my DeWalt ran it for about 3 years before needing a rebuild.. Bought an old Delta SS350LS to use while rebuilding the DeWalt.. That Delta was a nice saw.. but I sold it for some reason.. Then when my trusty old DeWalt was starting to get noisy again.. I started looking for a back-up saw.. wanted a higher end saw to just keep as a back-up.. bought my old Hawk 220VS 3 years ago and did upgrades to it.. Kinda been using it since.. Then I found the deal on the 226 Ultra and then not too long after than I found the deal on the new Excalibur EX-21 that I couldn't refuse..

All of this said.. of my experience If I could only have one saw.. t'd be a tough call between my Hawks and the Excalibur.. Now that I bought the Pegas upgrade blade holders.. I love the Excalibur.. Before the upgraded blade chucks.. it'd have been the Hawk hands down.. and would still be the Hawk if the Hawk was as aggressive cutting as I am accustom to.. since the Hawk is slightly slower cutting.. I choose the Excalibur.. both are easy to do blade changes..

If you are accustom to cutting on the less aggressive saw.. you may want to stick with a Hawk.. as you may find the Ex types saws may cut faster than you are wanting to..  you can do things to slow it down though as it's much easier to adjust blade speed or go to less aggressive blade etc.. Harder to go from a aggressive cutting saw when you're used to cutting fast and then go to a less aggressive saw and want to go faster.. 

I think the Hawk saw would be a good one to teach your daughter to saw on.. because they are less aggressive cutting and it's easier to get those sharp turns and corners on one of the Hawks than the Ex style saws.. 

Good luck on whatever you decide..      

Edited September 1, 2018 by kmmcrafts

[Oldmansbike]

I'm In no hurry when I cut so the EX saw may not be for me and the Hegner costs more than the Hawk so I think I will continue to look for a used Hawk for awhile then decide whether to get a new one. 

[scrollingforsanity]

I have had several saws in the last twenty years. Several cheap ones that are not worth mentioning . I had a Dremel that I used for years that worked quite well then a Dewalt that was much better then bought a new EX21 that was very good. I bought a Hegner for a backup saw but it just wasn't for me. I have not tried the Hawk and like Scrappile I would like too. I now have a Seyco St21 and my EX21. The Seyco is my everyday saw and I have become to love it. Only if you tilt your saw a lot it takes more time than the Ex does. I don't think you can go wrong with any of the upper end saws it just depends on your needs for scrolling. I do have to mention that Ray at Seyco is very good at backing his saws and availability for parts should you need them for the EX and ST. Good luck on your decision.  

Scrollingforsanity

Oregon

 

 

[Scrappile]

Gota ask, you like the way the blade is changed, doesn't that mean you have removable bottom clamp and you take it out to put a new blade in?  That narrows it to three saw that I know of, Hawk, Hegner and Jet.  Of those three, the Hegner and Hawk will be around the longest... coarse if you are my age, the saw does not have to last too long!!

[Oldmansbike]

Yes Scrappile the bottom clamp is removable. That's what I like about it. I can change a blade and be back cutting in under 30 seconds (yes I timed myself once).

 

[kmmcrafts]

I've really wanted to try the new Jet saw.. I like that it has that removable lower clamp.. like the Hawk has.. but the upper clamp is what really seems like would make an awesome fretwork saw.. because of the tension and blade clamping is done in the same single set.. 

I've contemplated selling both my Hawks and the new Excalibur just to buy one of those new Jets.. but hate to do that if I didn't like it , LOL.. and.. I certainly couldn't get another deal on these same saws I have that I got on them.. should I not like the Jet and want my old Hawks back.. LOL One day I'll find a deal on a Jet or at least get the opportunity to run one

[Scrappile]

Yes that top clamp on the Jet is intriguing, however there are enough people that don't like it that Pegas makes a blade clamp to replace it.  I haven't read enough understand why.

[kmmcrafts]

5 minutes ago, Scrappile said:

Yes that top clamp on the Jet is intriguing, however there are enough people that don't like it that Pegas makes a blade clamp to replace it.  I haven't read enough understand why.

Yes I know, but I think a lot of them don't like it because they like to top feed... Steve Good reviewed the saw and mentioned how he liked the set up but didn't like it also as it wasn't what he was accustomed to.. which gave the saw a bad rap in my opinion.. Used to be a lot of talk about how people don't like the barrel clamps of the Hawks too.. and how the older Hawks aren't top feed etc.. I think this is a big reason why the Hawk G4 was talked about so much.. as it is top or bottom feed..with a few other improvements.. but the biggest and most talked about is... Top feeding..

For me.. I am a bottom feeder... I am use to the barrel clamps of my Hawk.. so I could probably slide right in and go.. comfortably on the Jet with no issues..  There is a learning curve to those saws with removable clamps that those that are not used to that.. they absolutely hate fussing with that little clamp and having to take it out and put it into the slot / tool to remove and replace the blade.. etc etc.. I remember when I first got my old Hawk.. I thought those removable clamps was about the dumbest thing.. but.. once I gave it a good bit to learn to use the saw.. I've found how much nicer it really is to be able to have several sized blades loaded and ready to go.. and an switch out from a straight blade to a spiral for veining etc.. 

I think most dislike the Jet clamping system because they have given up before really giving them a go for a good 100 or so hours of use.. I almost gave up n the Hawks at one point.. because I was so accustomed to the way the deWalt cut..   

[Scrappile]

Kinda defeats the whole purpose for buying a Jet in the first place... But, I think you are correct.  It took me a little while to get use to the removable bottom clamp.  Now it is second nature and I actually prefer it... It's what a person gets use to and is comfortable with. 

[scrollingforsanity]

I agree with Paul a lot is what you get used to. Sometimes it's hard to change. I tried the Jet a little over a year ago. I really like the top blade clamp and as I am a top feeder so the bottom clamp was okay as well. The saw I received vibrated so bad as to be unusable. I talked with the factory several times and we tried everything they could think of but nothing helped. I returned it and they sent another one. It was a lot better but still had quite a bit of vibration it would probably been fine to keep but other than the blade clamp system there was really no difference between the Jet and the EX21 or ST21 as far as the machine and mechanical parts, the tables are a little different, in fact I would think that the motor and parallel link system was exactly the same on the Jet as it is on the EX and ST. I returned that Jet as well and went back to my EX21 until this last spring I purchased a ST21. I still have the EX but use the ST almost exclusively. I really like the larger table once I got used to it. Nice Saw. 

grizz

Oregon