Air Cleaner

[Rockytime]

I have never seen an air cleaner with exception on line. Old Joe mentioned he has used a box fan with a furnace filter. I have done that but wonder how a air cleaner is different. I assume a fan sucks air through a filter into the box. The box must have holes in it for air to escape which the box fan does without the box. So I'm wondering just how it works. Perhaps If I had one I would be able to inhale instead of only exhaling in my shop.

[kmmcrafts]

The box fan with filter works quite well... The hanging filter probably does the same thing.. I have only had mine up a few days.. but see the filter is already picked up a hint of cherry color to it... I run the box fan next to my saw.. but won't be doing that so much in the near future since I'm planning to run piping to each saw for my dust collector to get right at the source.... Hanging a box fan in the ceiling could very well be an option for someone.. on a small budget.. But I don't think those furnace filters are designed to capture the smallest of the particles like the box air cleaners are with their double filtration.. Not saying a box fan couldn't have a double filter added to it.. not sure how many CFM a box fan moves.. 

My brother uses box fans with filters and has 2-3 of them that he hangs in his basement ceiling to filter the air in his shop.. he says it works really well..  

[Old Joe]

The ceiling fans like the Wen, Jet, Shop Fox, etc removes fine airborne dust particles and helps to improve the overall cleanliness of the shop. My box fan with a furnace filter sits on the floor next to my saw and it sucks up a ton of fine dust. I hate wearing a respirator and rarely use one unless I am cutting some exotic woods or MDF. So, my system is as follows: I have the ceiling unit on most of the time, and usually set it to run for 4 hours when I leave the shop for the day. I also run an unfiltered box fan on low from about five feet, on a bench,  away pointed towards my  sawsaw. Then I have another box fan with a furnace filter cable tied to it on the floor a couple of feet away from the saw. I find this works great to keep the scroll dust out of my face and lungs.I learned the box fan trick years ago when working residential remodel work. I have seen examples on-line of extravagant boxes that people have made to put the box fans in, though I believe in the KISS theory on this i.e. Keep It Simple Stupid. If you want, I can take pictures of my setup and post them tomorrow..

[Rockytime]

I just finished googling air filters. Lots of information out there. One site was a doctor comparing an $800 air cleaner with a box fan and hepa filter. I think hepa because I am hearing impaired and don't understand everything being said. The upshot is he said while the expensive air filter obviously filtered down to the finest particles the simple box fan set-up did an admirable job. Many of the replies stated that their very cheap air cleaners worked not much better than the box fans. I have a couple of box fans which I will set up with a furnace filter and set it on the floor behind my scroll saw. I'll give it a shot. I'll plug it in so that it runs while my dust collector runs.

[Old Joe]

If your saw is like my Dewalt , the saw’s blowers on your left side. If so, if possible I would recommend putting your box fan to your right side rather than behind you.

[trackman]

I have a Jet air system and it sure makes a big difference. The shop even smells better. 

[scrollingforsanity]

I actually use three box fans with a fairly fine filter and they work well but I would like to get a regular air cleaner I believe it would be more efficient  

 

grizz

Oregon

[OCtoolguy]

2 hours ago, Old Joe said:

If your saw is like my Dewalt , the saw’s blowers on your left side. If so, if possible I would recommend putting your box fan to your right side rather than behind you.

On the Dewalt you can take the bottom off the blower and turn it 180 degrees. Then the blower tube comes out the other side. I did it and it works just fine.

 

[kmmcrafts]

Actually yes.. I have the box fan with a allergen type furnace filter on it.. and whatever saw I use I put the fan on the side that my saw air blower is aimed at.. o my Hawks the blower is on the right side so I aim the blower to blow the dust toward the fan on the opposite side.. I have to take that filter outside 2-3 times a day and knock out the dust and then bring it in and sometimes vacuum it off too.. It's amazing how much dust it catches.. I do set the fan up on something that will raise it up so the top of the fan is as high or slightly higher than the saws table.. some dust still flats past the top of the an or off to the sides.. which is why I have the ceiling mount filtration system.. BUT... I've been playing around with using the shop vac and PVC piping to actually suck the dust into the vacuum.. and I think this is working much better than using the fan.. as there is very little dust now.. I need to get a more permanent system built and a better and quieter vacuum.. and hook it to the foot switch is what I have at the moment..   

[Rockytime]

I would like a ceiling air cleaner. However my shop is 14' long and the way the fluorescent lights are spaced there is no ceiling space available. I have placed a box fan on  the floor in back of the saw. It turns on with the dust extractor. I'll try it for awhile and see what happens. It is the only place where there is room to put it.

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Les I know we all are stressed for more room but a question for you. Do you pick up vibration in that saw being you are on wheels like that?? 

[Rockytime]

No John. It is smooth as silk. Very easy to move around. I'd like to put larger wheels on back to raise it some. 

[kmmcrafts]

5 hours ago, JTTHECLOCKMAN said:

Les I know we all are stressed for more room but a question for you. Do you pick up vibration in that saw being you are on wheels like that?? 

I had wheels on my first Hawk when I brought it home.. that thing would literally vibrate across the floor.. I did everything I could think of to dampen the vibration.. including parking the saw on a piece of carpet padding.. I ended up ditching the wheels.. I've thought about those roll around tool stands ( shopfox ) like I bought for my bandsaw.. but not sure that would even work... Now this is the older Hawk which does have more vibration than my newer Ultra.. so maybe they improved the balance of the machine on the Ultras..

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

6 hours ago, Rockytime said:

No John. It is smooth as silk. Very easy to move around. I'd like to put larger wheels on back to raise it some. 

Thats good. I know those saws and most scrollsaw operate better with less vibration when sitting on a solid surface. Saws with 4 legs like that are designed to be spread out just right to absorb vibrations. Good to hear you have no problems Happy Scrolling.

[OCtoolguy]

The floor in my little shop is 3/4" plywood on top of 4 x 4's on top of concrete. I just bought a bunch of the foam floor padding that Harbor Freight sells and did the entire shop with it. What a difference in my scroll saws. No vibration at all. I built custom stands for both of them out of 2 x and 4 x construction and they were pretty good as to vibration but since putting them on the foam padding, it's like night and day. I strongly recommend it. Much better than carpet.

 

[tgiro]

21 hours ago, kmmcrafts said:

The box fan with filter works quite well... The hanging filter probably does the same thing.. I have only had mine up a few days.. but see the filter is already picked up a hint of cherry color to it... I run the box fan next to my saw.. but won't be doing that so much in the near future since I'm planning to run piping to each saw for my dust collector to get right at the source.... Hanging a box fan in the ceiling could very well be an option for someone.. on a small budget.. But I don't think those furnace filters are designed to capture the smallest of the particles like the box air cleaners are with their double filtration.. Not saying a box fan couldn't have a double filter added to it.. not sure how many CFM a box fan moves.. 

My brother uses box fans with filters and has 2-3 of them that he hangs in his basement ceiling to filter the air in his shop.. he says it works really well..  

The term "Furnace filter" leaves a lot of room for discussion. As do the terms "1 micron, 5 micron, 10 micron" that we get from the box air filtrator makers.

While 1 micron is good enough and 5 micron is definitely not.

When I couldn't get outer filters for my Jet AFS-400 (similar to the Wen, Powertec, and Shopfox), I made a frame to fit the outer filter space and went to Lowes and bought 3M Filtrete filters which I cut to fit. See the pic.

The reason I got those filters was the research I did about filter capabilities. The 3M filters rated well in the MERV ratings as shown on the chart here - https://www.iallergy.com/pages/compare-3m-filtrete-filters

The filters I use are the Micro Allergen Defense (3rd column from the left) with a MERV rating of 11. The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency advises that filters with MERV ratings of 9 to 12 are almost as effective as true high-efficiency particulate absorption, or HEPA, filters when it comes to  removing particles from indoor air that are hazardous to your health, which makes them ideal for homes with occupants who have COPD, allergies, asthma and other respiratory conditions. These high-quality filters trap particles as small as one micron, including Legionella and humidifier dust.

The same goes for the filter bags on dust collectors. They are usually rated at 10 micron, 5 micron, or 1 micron. My dust collector sits outside, in a shed, so I don't worry to much about it. Although, the bags are rated for 1 micron. But folk who keep the dust collector in the shop should be aware that anything more than 1 micron is dangerous.

 

[kmmcrafts]

Similar to what my findings have been.. and yes I use that same filter on my box fan..  actually probably more efficient than the ceiling mounted unit.. My DC needs a better bag as it is inside the shop.. That said.. I wear my dust mask about any time I'm in the shop.. Again that said.. I see fine dust landing on my tool boxes etc.. so there is dust floating around in the shop.. I clean this dust up a few times a year.. and would like to eliminate more of it.. If it's landing on stuff.. then there is room for improvement.. also if it's landing on stuff.. any time you go into the shop.. and just move.. it'll stir up that dust even though you cannot see it.. doesn't mean it's not getting stirred up. so in reality.. one should have a mask on at all times in the shop even when you're not really " woodworking" ... i work on my cars and things in the shop quite often.. and so I notice this fine dust maybe more than others do that strictly have their shop as a wood shop..

The point I make here is.. this fine dust is what is harmful to you.. and you don't really even have to be woodworking to need the mask.. or need much better filtration... much better filteration is something I'm going to be doing..mainly because I don't want to wear a dust mask to work on my " other projects " ...  also be nice to only have to do a deep cleaning only a few times a year rather than every week or so..  

[Oldmansbike]

After reading this discussion I went and bought a box fan and a furnace filter and put them together this morning. I just got done cutting a project that took about 2 hours. I set the fan about even with table on the saw and ran it on high. I couldn't believe the amount of sawdust it captured. Usually my glasses are coated with a layer of dust when I'm done but not this time. I didn't think a scrollsaw created that much dust. Boy was I wrong.

[kmmcrafts]

1 hour ago, Oldmansbike said:

After reading this discussion I went and bought a box fan and a furnace filter and put them together this morning. I just got done cutting a project that took about 2 hours. I set the fan about even with table on the saw and ran it on high. I couldn't believe the amount of sawdust it captured. Usually my glasses are coated with a layer of dust when I'm done but not this time. I didn't think a scrollsaw created that much dust. Boy was I wrong.

Yes exactly.. they saw puts out a lot of fine dust you don't really see floating in the air.. but when it gets captured in that white pleated filter after only a short time of cutting.. you realize just how much dust they really do produce..