kmmcrafts Posted October 16, 2018 Report Share Posted October 16, 2018 Okay just thought I’d share some info with The Excalibur. I have some big orders that came in over the last few days so I’ve been doing a lot of cutting. Yesterday I hooked up my shop vac to the dust port provided on my EX21. I cut out 130 custom Christmas ornaments yesterday and about 30 so far this morning. I was going to take a picture last night and forgot. Then was going to today before I got started. But went right to work. Just thought about it and looked to see just how much mess I’ve made. Not too much as normally there’d be a big pile on top of the angle adjustment knob etc. I do have a small amount on the floor that I believe is more from the top of the saw table as some of the dust I noticed up top and on the table, but even that is minimal compared to just using the box fan. I didn’t have that set up during this test but I think I’ll try that on the other half of this order. Anyway, 160 ornaments cut and not much mess to show for it. Going to have to make a mess so the wife don’t think I’m just playing around instead of cutting this order. OCtoolguy, meflick, Iguanadon and 1 other 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCtoolguy Posted October 16, 2018 Report Share Posted October 16, 2018 I guess I'm going to have to get busy on my vac system for the EX. The one I made for the Dewalt works great. kmmcrafts 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmmcrafts Posted October 17, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 I need a quieter vacuum or a 50ft hose to put it over in the neighbors garage. But I have to say.. I really like having some sort of vacuum dust collection rather than just having the blower blow it away and the box fan trying to handle all that dust blowing toward it.. Also need to hook the other saws up to the vacuum.. John B and OCtoolguy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sycamore67 Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 Great work....getting dust at the source is always the best way. Just blowing it away with a fan is not real good and puts fine dust up in the air to breath. OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 3 hours ago, kmmcrafts said: I need a quieter vacuum or a 50ft hose to put it over in the neighbors garage. But I have to say.. I really like having some sort of vacuum dust collection rather than just having the blower blow it away and the box fan trying to handle all that dust blowing toward it.. Also need to hook the other saws up to the vacuum.. The noise from the vacuum is the thing has stopped me. I have a dust collection set up for my other machines, which I only use when the machines are being used and then with earmuffs. I had a "Shop"vac once, it sounded like a B52 taking off, mind you it would suck paint of a wall. Hearing protection is so very important, I suffer from industrial deafness, from my time as cabinetmaker working in workshops with huge thicknessers, shapers etc. Well before any regulations. kmmcrafts and OCtoolguy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sycamore67 Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 Interesting comments....hearing or lungs. Some have built enclosures for vacuums to lower noise. I think a vacuum is much better than a dust collector for a scroll saw. The vacuum has much higher suction over 50" while a dust collector is about 10" of suction. This is important when using smaller diameter suction pickups. kmmcrafts and OCtoolguy 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevan Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 Love my dust collection system on my saw. I would much rather wear hearing protection over a respirator. I have a repurposed dyson vac that I use exclusively on my saw and it's not the vacuum that is loud, it's the "sucking" sound on the hoses. OCtoolguy and kmmcrafts 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmmcrafts Posted October 17, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 7 hours ago, John B said: The noise from the vacuum is the thing has stopped me. I have a dust collection set up for my other machines, which I only use when the machines are being used and then with earmuffs. I had a "Shop"vac once, it sounded like a B52 taking off, mind you it would suck paint of a wall. Hearing protection is so very important, I suffer from industrial deafness, from my time as cabinetmaker working in workshops with huge thicknessers, shapers etc. Well before any regulations. Yeah I know what you mean about the hearing protection.. Spent many years working in a sawmill..with various job duties including making pallets with the noisy air nailers.. Then several years working in a factory until I started doing autobody repair.. which is also very loud.. My intent is to buy a higher end vacuum ... I've been looking and have had demos on fein and Festool.. both quite pricey.. however I am one that doesn't like hearing protection to much.. having the big headphone style ear protection tends to give me headaches and the others bother my ears.. I do wear hearing protection when running loud equipment.. as this doesn't bother me like wearing it all day in the shop but for short periods doesn't bother me.. So I plan to buy a quieter vac system.. and the higher end ones have the speed adjustment.. pretty sure one could run it on lowest setting which is quieter yet.. and still be plenty good suction for the fine dust.. also designed to turn on / off a lot with the tool.. Thinking the lower power may not hae as loud of a sucking noise too.. May put the vac.. upstairs in the shop and run the hose through the floor... so I'm betting the only noise will be the sucking sound.. hopefully more tolerable.. Even with this dust collection.. I still wear a my mask... OCtoolguy and John B 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappile Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 There is another noise to my scroll saw dust collection, that I have not figured out how to erase or reduce. That is the sound of the sucking air from the "nozzle" (3/4" loc-line nozzle). That noise is louder than my Fein vac and scroll saw. I do not know how many Db it is but it is a little annoying. When I get back to scrolling, I an going to experiment and try to fix that. OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCtoolguy Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 3 hours ago, Scrappile said: There is another noise to my scroll saw dust collection, that I have not figured out how to erase or reduce. That is the sound of the sucking air from the "nozzle" (3/4" loc-line nozzle). That noise is louder than my Fein vac and scroll saw. I do not know how many Db it is but it is a little annoying. When I get back to scrolling, I an going to experiment and try to fix that. Exactly the same problem I have Paul. The hissing sound coming from the nozzle is the loudest thing in my shop. But, I just try to ignore it because there is no "free lunch" so to speak. Something has to make noise. My hearing started going downhill when I was a teenager. I used to go to the drags and loved listening to the Art Arfons jet dragster as it went by me. Then, in the Army, on maneuvers one time, I was unlucky enough to be standing between to M48 tanks as they fired simultaneously. The air turned orange and I couldn't hear for an hour. Then constant ringing in my ears. I sold tools for almost 40 years so I was in and out of all kinds of shops and it was always noisy. I have tinnitis too. So, at 75 years of age, I don't even think about trying to "save" my hearing. I never wear any kind of hearing protection. I just try to make everything I do as quiet as I can. The Fein vac and my dust control system works great but the hissing noise is still bothersome. John B 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockytime Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 If you are using a lock-line as a vacuum intake the orifice is too small and you are restricting the amount of vacuum available. I was told that by using a smaller vacuum hose on my DC I would increase the vacuum. No such thing, it only reduced the DC efficiency. I had made a reducer to go from 2" to 1" which greatly reduced the vacuum ability to the scroll saw. I switched back to a 2" hose and the difference was amazing. It not only picked up dust but also small pieces that dripped through the blade hole in the table. Small holes do not suck well. But then what the heck do I know? OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappile Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Rockytime said: If you are using a lock-line as a vacuum intake the orifice is too small and you are restricting the amount of vacuum available. I was told that by using a smaller vacuum hose on my DC I would increase the vacuum. No such thing, it only reduced the DC efficiency. I had made a reducer to go from 2" to 1" which greatly reduced the vacuum ability to the scroll saw. I switched back to a 2" hose and the difference was amazing. It not only picked up dust but also small pieces that dripped through the blade hole in the table. Small holes do not suck well. But then what the heck do I know? I understand what you are saying, but even reducing to the 3/4" still allows plenty of suction. Even the attachments that came with my Fein reduce to 1 1/4" when I use them to vac the floor and such. However the reduction to 3/4" certainly increases the suction noise greatly. This tells me that increasing the diameter of the pvc pipe and the opening at the end of the line should reduce the noise as well as increase suction, which may lift my work piece off the table! I am going to play around with it some and see what happens. Can't scroll yet, may as well experiment with the dust collection while my eyes heal up. Edited October 17, 2018 by Scrappile OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockytime Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 1 hour ago, Scrappile said: I understand what you are saying, but even reducing to the 3/4" still allows plenty of suction. Even the attachments that came with my Fein reduce to 1 1/4" when I use them to vac the floor and such. However the reduction to 3/4" certainly increases the suction noise greatly. This tells me that increasing the diameter of the pvc pipe and the opening at the end of the line should reduce the noise as well as increase suction, which may lift my work piece off the table! I am going to play around with it some and see what happens. Can't scroll yet, may as well experiment with the dust collection while my eyes heal up. The opening on the lock-line is pretty small. I think removing the nozzle would do well. You are correct. The vacuum cleaner is designed to operate efficiently at 1 1/4" diameter. OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCtoolguy Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 31 minutes ago, Rockytime said: The opening on the lock-line is pretty small. I think removing the nozzle would do well. You are correct. The vacuum cleaner is designed to operate efficiently at 1 1/4" diameter. So, if I'm understand you guys correctly, where I connect my Fein to my pvc drops it from 1 1/4" down to 1". Then it goes down ever farther when it enters the LockLine stuff that is 3/4". Should I replumb this thing back up to 1 1/4" pvc all the way to the end? I'm not sure you can buy LockLine in that size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappile Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 5 minutes ago, octoolguy said: So, if I'm understand you guys correctly, where I connect my Fein to my pvc drops it from 1 1/4" down to 1". Then it goes down ever farther when it enters the LockLine stuff that is 3/4". Should I replumb this thing back up to 1 1/4" pvc all the way to the end? I'm not sure you can buy LockLine in that size. I am no expert on this. I just know the bigger the opening the quieter the sucking sound. Keep in mind these dust extractors are made to be attached to orbital sanders, hand held belt sanders and other tools. They do not 1 1/4" connectors to attach the Fein to. But it works great with them. OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crupiea Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 I am a dust collector but i like mine in a nice even layer on all my stuff in the house. lol Dave Monk, OCtoolguy, John B and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCtoolguy Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 Just now, crupiea said: I am a dust collector but i like mine in a nice even layer on all my stuff in the house. lol You and my wife would NOT get along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevan Posted October 18, 2018 Report Share Posted October 18, 2018 As you decrease the area of the opening, the velocity of the air flow increases and usually results in more sound/noise. As you increase the area of the opening, velocity decreases and usually results in less sound/noise. In theory, there will be an opening large enough to negate any suction but also in theory, there should be some optimal size opening that will give you acceptable suction with acceptable sound/noise. I think we all know that 3/4" is not that optimal size so please report back to use as you increase your nozzle size. OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmmcrafts Posted October 18, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2018 I see many of you all run a vac line at the bottom or your blade and one at the top of the table... While collecting as much of the dust as possible is important.. I wonder how much dust actually gets collected from the top hose.. and is that one really all that important.. My Hawk has a plastic plug at the bottom of the blade in the base of the saw.. I often thought this must be for some sort of dust hook up thing that maybe Hawk was planning to do? I don't see any other reason as to why they'd put that big hole there right below the blade.. I think the hole is about 1-1/4 diameter.. (just guesing) .. I've thought about inserting a wide mouth dust collection fitting in that hole ( provided there is room) such as a jointer DC fitting.. and hooking the hose up underneath the stand.. I'm thinking there may not be enough room.. Anyway, I just know that the EX-21 dust port get's about 98% of the dust created.. and thinking that probably a box fan on the opposite side of the dust blower tube would probably take care of that other 2% and a lot less noise.. I don't know but at any rate.. at a minimum I'll be running the EX-21 with the vac hooked up until I decide what I'll be doing with the Hawk for dust control.. Plus.. I bought that saw to use.. so I might as well use it and give the old Hawks a break for a while.. since I am only cutting ornaments right now anyway.. as I hate cutting anything very big on the EX-21.. blade is way too close to the end of the table on the EX-21.. or something.. as I'm not too fat but I end up hitting my gut when spinning the wood around on much of anything larger than 10-12 inch.. maybe the stand design and it allows me to practically sit on top of the saw.. I don't know but at any rate.. I don't like sawing larger stuff on the EX-21.. which is why I say ( for me ) a EX-16 would do me just fine.. in the EX line of saws.. cause I'm not cutting big stuff on one of those.. My hats off to those that can and do cut large stuff on them.. doesn't seem like much table support out there near the end of the table.. OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappile Posted October 18, 2018 Report Share Posted October 18, 2018 On my saws it is just the opposite. Most the dust is collected above the table because I use zero clearance inserts. Very little dust actually comes out the bottom. I have thought of eliminating the bottom collection although I have it in place and really see no advantage in eliminating it. I use to use a box fan setup, but felt that although it caught a large percent of the dust, what it didn't catch was being blown into air to settle all over and for me to breath. I guess there is no perfect setup, but I do know I like to collect all I can and wish I had taken the time to develop dust collection when I was much younger... OCtoolguy and kmmcrafts 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCtoolguy Posted October 18, 2018 Report Share Posted October 18, 2018 I was just looking at what's available from the LocLine website and I see that they jump from 3/4" up to 2 1/2". I'm wondering how much suction would be lost if I was to run my Fein hose into 1 1/4" pvc and then up to 2 1/2" and then neck it down on the ends to something smaller. I hate to spend money on the LocLine just to find out that it doesn't "suck". kmmcrafts 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodmaster1 Posted October 18, 2018 Report Share Posted October 18, 2018 Hearing or lungs I will take lungs since my hearing is greatly reduced. I do wear hearing protection to keep what is left. OCtoolguy and kmmcrafts 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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