Entry holes ?

[Foxfold]

Today I had the day to myself as hubby had to go and see his consultant. So, I thought ''I'll have a go at something outside my comfort zone and see how it goes.  Well I chose a portrait as I've never done one before and wanted to try my new blades.  All went well initially, I got my pattern the way I wanted it, I cut my wood to size, I stuck my pattern onto the wood and then meticulously put 'entry holes' in all the places I thought I'd need them and boy there were quite a lot, but I was careful and did them all perfectly

Then it all went to hell in a handbasket.

I was cutting away, feeling quite pleased with myself,,, then I made a mistake in my cutting.  Not that it concerned me too much  BUT..   I realised that if I hadn't put all those entry holes into the wood, I could have used it for something else, but unfortunately I'm just left with a big square colander.  that is neither use nor ornament.

So my question is...  When you all do something quite 'intricate' do you put all your entry holes in at the beginning or do you put them in as you go along?  Or do you just not make the 'newbie' mistakes I made ?   Brenda xx

[Scrappile]

Personally, I do both.  Some times I drill all the holes.. sometimes I get tired of drilling and stop that and scroll a while then drill some more... I have created colanders before and probably will again!  Goes with the hobby.

[Foxfold]

2 minutes ago, Scrappile said:

Personally, I do both.  Some times I drill all the holes.. sometimes I get tired of drilling and stop that and scroll a while then drill some more... I have created colanders before and probably will again!  Goes with the hobby.

Aww, thank you, I was so sure that I would be the only one that made such a silly mistake.  Made a note to myself, '' if cutting anything CONCENTRATE  !!!!!

[munzieb]

This topic has been touched on in some past postings and I have run into a similar situation like you. I did an airplane plaque with text. I drilled most of the holes and started on the text. I was into the second letter (A) and the middle broke off, then that piece fell to the floor into the netherworld of sawdust and wood chips never to be found again. So much for salvaging that project. If I had not been so ambitious to drill all the holes outright, I could have used the rest of the wood for another project. Its always fun to cut away big pieces on a project but its better to work on  the fine detail cuts like text or eyes or mouths on portraits, first. If you screw up, you can still use those undrilled blank pieces for other projects.

[crupiea]

I put them in as I go along. Used to do them one at a time but now I will do a small section of holes. Cut that area out and keep going like that. 

If i dont i end up with double holes or some of the holes get filled with sawdust and I have to drill them out again. 

[Scrappile]

I see it as a little gamble either way.  On some very delicate pieces, I have broken things when moving back and forth between saw and drill press.. I am sort of a klutz to begin with. 

[Bill WIlson]

I generally drill all the entry holes before cutting.  I did ruin a project once and it was in a stack of 4, so one mistake cost me 4 pieces of BB ply, but those kinds of catastrophic errors are rare, or at least I expect them to be. 

 

[Rockytime]

Everyone can use a colander. I've mad several. Once I start drilling I can't seem to stop!

[Foxfold]

3 hours ago, Scrappile said:

I am sort of a klutz to begin with. 

Me too, sometimes my hands work quicker than my brain can keep up with and it usually ends badly.

[Foxfold]

51 minutes ago, Bill WIlson said:

I generally drill all the entry holes before cutting.  I did ruin a project once and it was in a stack of 4, so one mistake cost me 4 pieces of BB ply, but those kinds of catastrophic errors are rare, or at least I expect them to be. 

 

Oh how I wish I had enough experience to expect the 'errors' to be rare,  however, I should concentrate on what I'm doing in the moment instead thinking of what to cook for dinner, shopping, getting the ironing done,  all running round in front of my blade while I'm cutting something. 

[OCtoolguy]

6 minutes ago, Foxfold said:

Oh how I wish I had enough experience to expect the 'errors' to be rare,  however, I should concentrate on what I'm doing in the moment instead thinking of what to cook for dinner, shopping, getting the ironing done,  all running round in front of my blade while I'm cutting something. 

Like somebody in another thread told you, if you aren't making mistakes, you aren't learning. The trick is to learn from them.

 

[lawson56]

At the beginning. Like you I have made that mistake, .there have been time times I have missed drilling a hole or 2.  I just calmly slam it in the scrap bin and start over.

[Don F]

I do both . And have messed up more than once .Just part of learning .

[loftyhermes]

I always drill all the holes first. 

[SCROLLSAW703]

Howdy Foxfold,

Sounds as though you've got yourself in a tight. I'm quite surprised that a couple of our other experienced sawyers haven't jumped in to offer advice. 

When I was first learning, I had the similar frustration. What I did to remedy the situation was took a step back and went to a single blade project. I drilled the entry holes in it where it needed to be cut, such as a Christmas ornament, Halloween ornament, etc. and practiced on a few of those awhile. 

Then I moved up to some projects that took a little more thought process, and studyin' before I started punchin' holes. Once I had the project on wood, and still do it to this day. I'll sit and study every project I am preparing to cut for layout, entry holes, hole sizes, where I want to drill my entry holes, etc. I use a red fine tipped sharpie and put an "X" if I can drill anywhere in a given area. I use a green fine tipped marker and put an "X" where I need to drill in a certain spot in order to begin cutting on order to keep the project together. I use other colors for different sized drill bits, difficult places to cut, etc. The secret to scroll saw work is to start from the inside and work out in a rotational order. your project will stay together better, and be stronger at the weak points, and look like a much more finished product in the end.

There are times when this rule does not always work. In some of my projects, such as Native American projects, or Cowboy projects, whatever, there may be weak spots that all run together like a map sorta. Try and leave that to the very last cuts because if you cut those to early, it's a sure fire recipe for failure. And at the same time, this may be where you'll want to drill a few entry holes at time, cut those parts, look your project over, and drill a few more as mentioned. 

Personally, myself, I prefer to have all the holes drilled before I start cutting. That way I have a direction to start, and can visualize how the project is going to look as it comes apart a piece at time. Avoid trying to drill to many entry holes in one area. Try to keep your cuts as large as possible. For me, this makes control of the project easier, and chances of miscuts less. Worse case scenario, you can always tape some of the project for strength if you have to, but try to avoid that if possible as well, that will destroy small detail in a hurry, in my experience. 

Your blade size and speed has a lot to do with the situation, as well. As a rule, the tighter quarters you are cuttin' in, the smaller blade you'll want to use, as well as the thinner the material. Avoid plywood at all cost, if possible. Use baltic birch ply, or a higher grade. Even better, use WOOD and plane it to the desired thickness of cut. In thinner material, the faster your blade is cutting, the more vibration it is creating within the complete project. By slowing your blade down, and using say a #1 or #2 blade, you can get the same results with a larger blade at a faster cut rate. In thicker material, say 1/2", you can start with a #3 blade and set your speed at 2 or thereabouts, depending on your preference, and amount of detail, and work up.

As aforementioned, there is not a project you tie into that will not be a learning experience of some sort. If you are not learning, you're either not payin' any mind to what you're doin', or you ain't made the right mistake to get your attention yet. Keep workin' at it, proficiency comes with progress and practice. You'll get better and better the more sawdust you make!

Brad.

[Paladin]

If it's something small I will drill all the holes at once.  For bigger projects like your portrait, I like to drill out holes in a section and then cut that section, then move onto the next.  I do this for a couple reasons - drilling 100+ holes at once can become really tedious and boring, and this also gets me up from my saw and moving around more often which helps keep my back from stiffening up too much from sitting at the saw for multiple hours at a time.  I find it easier mentally to keep going on a bigger project this way too.  By only cutting a section at a time, you set multiple smaller goals for yourself instead of looking at one big one.

[Bill WIlson]

17 hours ago, Foxfold said:

Oh how I wish I had enough experience to expect the 'errors' to be rare,  however, I should concentrate on what I'm doing in the moment instead thinking of what to cook for dinner, shopping, getting the ironing done,  all running round in front of my blade while I'm cutting something. 

I probably didn't word that very well. 

I've been scrolling for some time now, but even when I was just starting out, I think I approached projects with confidence that I could complete them and never expected that I was going to mess a piece up.  Now that doesn't mean  I never did.  To the contrary.  I've made my share of mistakes, but I use them as opportunities to learn and go on to the next project, better equipped to complete it successfully.  If I do mess it up, I try to come up with a fix.  Learning how to hide or fix mistakes can come in very handy.  I told my grandson when I started teaching him to scroll, that no one knows exactly what the pattern looked like once you remove it.  Some lines have to be followed precisely for the pattern to turn out.  Others have a bit more latitude and can be open to "interpretation", if you will.  Understanding the difference is important.  Tossing a mistake and starting over is a last resort. 

As for concentration, to me that is at the core of successful scrolling.  Fortunately, my shop is in the basement and I can minimize the distractions.  If my head isn't in the game, I turn off the lights and go do something else.  Successful scrolling requires pre-planning, patience, skill, attention to detail and practice.  Brad mentioned visualization, looking over the pattern to develop a plan or sequence of actions that will lead to successful completion.  That is good advice and not something that necessarily comes naturally to everyone.  If you train yourself to study a pattern and plan the cuts in a logical order, taking into account where the risks are, then follow that plan, focusing on how the saw is cutting, how the blade is tracking, where my hands need to be, etc., after a while, you get immersed in the cutting and hopefully the distractions sort of fade into the background.

I do apologize if my first reply came off as dismissive or arrogant.  That wasn't my intention.  I merely wanted to emphasize that I try not to approach a project, worried that I will mess it up.   Some of this comes from experience, but some of it is attitude as well. 

Hope this helps some.  Have fun making sawdust!

[Foxfold]

Oh ,Bill WIlson   I hadn't taken any offence at all from your reply,   I do take on board the fact that if my head isn't 100% on what's in front of me I should walk away. Quite often I'm scrolling, cooking, shopping, washing and gardening all at the same time.  

However, that day I was quite confident about my scrolling, so confident I didn't realise I went the wrong way   

My original question was about 'entry holes' because having gone wrong I was left with a piece of useless wood because I'd put lots and lots of entry holes into it, and wondered how other people approach a 'big' pattern. Do they just put a few entry holes and if it goes well, put some more  or do they put ALL the entry holes in and hope that everything goes perfectly. ?  I may start the next 'big' pattern with just a few and see how it goes  LOL. xx

Edited October 31, 2018 by Foxfold

[MrsN]

I typically drill all of the holes before I cut. I get in a groove when cutting and don't like to stop and drill holes. 

On some pieces, if I am worried about a part that is difficult, but will be stable (like the eyes) I will just drill the section to see how it goes. 

Most of the time I am a bit over confident and just assume everything will work out. With more practice (and mistakes) we get better at hiding mistakes and making "design changes" on the fly. 

The reason for most of my colander pieces is that I took a break and never got back around to finish the project or lost interest in it.

[fordamir]

Great reply Bill.  I usually take a project I am going to cut and study it for a while; it seems the more I study the clearer the plan of action becomes.  I will sometimes place a small dot where I will start with magic marker.  I am retired and like the rest of you don't RUSH to start the project, may even keep looking at it for a few days on and off till the plan of attack is crystal clear even to the point where I will have to place supporting tape on the bottom of the pattern for future support when cutting the next area. Yes I always start from the center and either cut left to right or right to left. After all, we are all creating an heirloom of projects that will probably be done in the future by CNC machines.  AIN,T IT GREAT to be a future part of a lost art form!  And yes--I still have made my share of MISTAKES!

 

 

[Woodrush]

I try to drill them all but I dont think I have ever done that as I always miss at least 2 or more

[jerry1939]

I drill "about" 10-12 at a time.  That forces me to get up, stretch & walk over to the drill.  On delicate pieces, before drilling I put a Xs on the pattern where to drill.  Have heard of "someone" (no name entered here) drilling on the wrong side of the line.

jerry

[Rockytime]

I drill all the hols first. I have discovered that I cut curves more accurately cutting counter clockwise rather than clockwise. So that helps me determine where to put my holes when drilling.

[tomsteve]

ill drill about 20 or so holes,cut, then drill more.

i have one from a few years ago STILL on a shelf. drilled all the holes in areas that werent getting cut out.

off to start a fire now.

[wombatie]

On my first big intricate cut I drilled all of the holes but a quarter of the way in cutting it all turned pear shaped and I was left with wood full of holes..........never again.  I now drill about 20 holes cut, repeat, I am not going to waste any more wood in that way again.  We all learn by our mistakes.  I have also learnt to cut the hardest part first, then if it turns pear shaped in a hurry then I have not wasted a whole heap of time. 

Marg