A lesson re-learned

[Bill WIlson]

I've been scrolling for many years now, but every once in a while, I have to re-learn what should be a common sense lesson.

I'm cutting animal and dinosaur puzzles for our club to donate to Toys for Tots next month.  It was a good way to use a bunch of off-cuts and scraps that I've had laying around.  I used cherry, sassafras, white oak, beech, sycamore & walnut.  All of the pieces are at least 3/4" thick, with a few closer to 7/8".  All was going well, until I got to one dinosaur puzzle in a piece of cherry.  As soon as I started cutting, the wood started smoking.  I was using a new #5 Olson MS blade and they had been working well, up until that point.  I figured it was a lemon, so I put in another fresh one and it did the same thing.  I then switched over to an #5 FD UR.  Same thing.  I only cut one piece out of the puzzle and it burned the whole way.  I set the blank aside and went on to other patterns, in other woods, with no more problems.

I brought the topic up at our scrollsaw club meeting, on Saturday.  The first suggestion, was to put packing tape on the cherry.  Now I consider myself a veteran scroller and I've long known about the packing tape trick and used to use it or painters tape a lot.  I got away from it a while back, because I didn't enjoy picking all the little bits off of detailed fretwork.  Eventually I convinced myself that the tape really wasn't worth the extra effort.  However, I went back to that dinosaur pattern, put clear tape on both sides of the blank and it sawed as smooth and cleanly as anything.  Now I've cut a lot of cherry over the years.  It's one of my favorite woods, but I've never had a burning problem, like this.  In fact, I had already cut another puzzle out of a different piece of cherry, without using tape, that came out fine.  No burning.  But when I saw how much easier the problem piece cut with the tape on it, I have to admit, that perhaps I need to re-think my strategy and go back to using tape, at least in certain applications. 

[Sycamore67]

In general, cherry is prone to burning on a scroll saw, table saw, or bandsaw.  On this thickness wood, I use a skip tooth blade and no burning.  On the table saw, I do not use a fine tooth blade.

Lots of solutions to every problem.

[trackman]

Try putting the clear tape over the top of blue painters tape. Much easier to remove. 

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Cherry is one of those woods that does burn easily as well as many exotics. The tape trick does work. I use blue tape under all my patterns anyway so I really do not notice burning. 

[WayneMahler]

I use blue painters tape on all my projects. If it's thicker cherry I add a layer of clear packing tape to the top. This has worked for me. On the table saw I use a 24 tooth to cut it then sand any blade marks that may be there.

[OCtoolguy]

When you folks use the clear tape or any tape for that matter, do you get an adhesive build-up on the table of the saw around the hole? I'm having a terrible time with it happening on my saw. I'm using shipping labels directly on the wood and when doing compound cuts I have to use the packaging tape to hold the pieces in place. As soon as I do that, I get the build-up. I have a good coating of Johnson's paste wax on the table so the adhesive scrapes off with a plastic scraper that I have but it's a pain to have to do it after every cut. Any suggestions? Does the brand of tape matter? I have used 3M and right now a roll I bought at Harbor Freight. They both do it. I might try using some blue tape next time.

 

[Foxfold]

Ray,  (octoolguy)  I know I'm pretty new to this scrollsaw stuff, but I find that a clamp works brilliantly.  I made mine after watching this.  If I'm overstepping the mark, please feel free to ignore. ....

 

[OCtoolguy]

3 minutes ago, Foxfold said:

Ray,  (octoolguy)  I know I'm pretty new to this scrollsaw stuff, but I find that a clamp works brilliantly.  I made mine after watching this.  If I'm overstepping the mark, please feel free to ignore. ....

 

Thank you for your suggestion. You are not overstepping in any way. I do use one of these clamps for part of my cuts but there is still tape involved. For the project I'm working on right now, most of it can be cut without the aid of a clamp but for the cuts on the tall part I use the clamp. Once those cuts are done, I have to tape the pieces together to complete the cutting. It's at that point that I am getting the adhesive transfer from the taped wood to the table top. I hope I am making this clear. 

 

[Bill WIlson]

I'm beginning to wonder if the amount or concentration of natural resins in cherry can vary from one tree to another.  I've used a lot of cherry.  I've scrolled it and built furniture from it.  I'm well aware of it's propensity for burning, but with a sharp blade and proper technique, I typically don't have much more trouble with cherry than any other hard wood.  That's what made this experience so surprising to me.  As I had mentioned, I had already cut one puzzle out of cherry prior to the one that burned.  I had no problems cutting it, so when I grabbed the problem piece, I was shocked at how quickly and how badly it burned.  These were pieces from different boards, but I couldn't if say they were from different trees or not.  My cherry lumber comes from trees harvested on family property.  We took down the trees, hauled them to a local sawmill and air dried the lumber ourselves. Sure the clear tape helped, but there is something else going on here.  Ultimately, the lesson is that it's prudent to take precautions to prevent this in the future, but I'm still curious as to why this happened in the first place.

[OCtoolguy]

Thanks Bill. If you ever figure it out, I know I'd sure be curious as to why.

 

[Rockytime]

I have always been skeptical about the clear packing tape even though may swear by it. I guess I'll have to try it.

[SCROLLSAW703]

Howdy Mr. Wilson, 

I am agreement with your theory, Sir. The option of harvesting cherry off someone's property, which would be AWESOME, I have no doubt, but I purchase my hardwoods from one of two small lumber yards here. One is in Nebraska, and the hardwood is brought in from the mill in Missouri. The other is here in Kansas, about an hour and a half drive from home. I am good friends with the manager and he has excellent quality lumber. Even pine! He carries several species of hardwoods, along with many exotics, and at a great price! 

Cherry is one of those species of woods I have found that takes patience, and depending on what you're cutting with it, a soft hand on the blade speed, and an even more cautious hand when it comes to feed rate. I have cut lots of cherry over the years, made some furniture, drawers, tables, signs, dreamcatchers, crosses, and feathers with it. And I have never had any trouble burning at the scroll saw,       the table saw and RAS, that's a little different story. 

I had a couple fellers lookin' over some of my cherry, walnut, and bloodwood feathers at a craft show a few years back, and one of them kept lookin' at the cherry feathers, and finally asked "are these laser cut? How do you keep from burning the edges when you cut all that detail into the feather at that thickness? I answered his first question with "no, they are not laser cut." They are cut on a scroll saw with a #0 or #1 polar blade. Which meant nothing to him, but point being, I went on to explain to him that blade speed and size has a great deal to do with burning when it comes to cherry. The faster the blade is cutting, the more apt it is to burn the wood, and dull the blade. Once the blade is dull, serious burning will begin. If that piece of cherry is puttin' out smoke while you're runnin' a scroll saw blade agin' it, on of three things are happening. 1)Your blade is shot! 2) Your blade speed is runnin' entirely to fast for the type of wood your are cutting. #3) You are using the wrong type of blade for the business at hand. 

A critical point when cutting hardwoods is blade tension. I have found that, especially with cherry and walnut, blade tension needs to be high. This helps the blade to run straighter, cut smoother, and reduces heat. I also use a small amount of thompsons wax on my blades before I begin cutting cherry. It helps to keep the blade from burning, and increases the agility of the blade in tighter turns. A lot of what I cut are small & detailed, and take patience to cut. Those of you that cut fretwork can relate. 

I also don't use anything but polar blades when I cut cherry or walnut. I get a cleaner, smoother more finished cut, and less sawmarks to sand out. When I cut the feathers for a dreamcatcher, and they are bloodwood, cherry, or walnut, I use a #0 or #1 polar blade for the job. I have tried numerous types of blades for this. It is to tedious for a skip tooth, with that being my blade of choice. I have tried reverse blades, spiral blades, etc., and none of them give the quality of cut like the flying dutchman polar blade.

I can't say as I have ever tried the packing tape method. I use blue painters tape under my patterns as I stick my patterns to the painters tape. I don't have any trouble doing things that way. My feather patterns are to thin and fragile to go stickin' them up with layers of tape, and then gettin' all the tape removed and still have a feather in one piece is not as easy as it may sound. 

Thank you for your time, and Mr. Wilson, I apologise if you feel like I hijacked your thread, Sir. That was not the intention. Just my point of view, and my experience, Sir. Hopefully it will help someone out in the future.

Keep crankin' out the sawdust!:)

Sawdut703(Brad.) 

[troyj]

Hi Bill,

I am a relatively new scroller. I am getting better at not burning but I still have my moments. Right now I apply a tape layer on both sides to be safe. I agree removing the tape is no fun. I have had enough pieces burn. I use 3/4" wood most of the time. I am making puzzles right now. I tried blood wood the other day and had a fair amount of issues. What's your recomendation on a dark wood easy to scroll?

Thanks

See my wood craft blog at www.tjsplace.online. 

[Bill WIlson]

No worries Brad, not a hijack at all. 

I usually don't take any special precautions when cutting cherry.  I've had it burn before, but that was because I was letting the blade get dull, trying to squeeze a few more minutes life out of it.  Other woods will tolerate that, with little more than a drop in performance.  Cherry however is quite sensitive to dull blades.  That is what made my experience so perplexing.  I used 3 different, fresh blades of 2 different brands.  They all started burning immediately.  I've never had that happen before.  My cutting returned to normal, once I applied the tape.  I even switched to a smaller blade, which at least theoretically could have compounded the problem, and had no further burning.

I'm hung up on the wood itself being different, somehow.  I know the color of cherry boards can vary from tree to tree and that it darkens over time, with exposure to light.  I've built furniture for my oldest daughter out of cherry, harvested from my FIL's farm.  They were made from different boards, harvested and milled from different trees, at different times.  Both are now several years old, been in the same house for over 10 years and were finished with similar products.  The one piece is extremely dark, reddish brown, while the other one is lighter, with more of an orange hue.  I've always been curious about this and now wonder if somehow the difference in color may have some connection to the burning issue.

[SCROLLSAW703]

Mr. Bill, 

Thank you Sir. I was concerned I may have overstepped my bounds.:( 

You may be on to somethin' there with the different colors, Mr. Bill. I've cut a lot of cherry myself, and have always  bought rough cut from the same place. The cherry comes out of Missouri and is cut at 1'' x 12" - 18" wide x 14' long. It is always good and dry, but I have noticed when I get into some of the darker colored part of the cherry, blades dull faster, and cutting slows down considerably. 

The lighter, pinkish colored parts I have cut seem to be easily cut, and I don't have any burning issues or blade trouble. Most of my projects are highly intricate, and have several small cuts in them, so you would expect some burning in that scenario. I would be interested to know what the difference in sap level is in the darker cherry wood as to the lighter color, Mr.Bill. 

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Talk to Kevin about cherry wood. He uses it almost exclusively in his projects and seems to work well for him. I have no answer for the different types and where they come from but you can find that in all species of wood. I find some red oak just a bear to cut and most just as easy as cutting pine. Exotics will always be hard on blades and have a tendency to burn because of the resins in them. They are so dense also.

[Roberta Moreton]

I once did a test, I was cutting a piece of cherry and it was smoking. Without removing the piece I just added a piece of packing tape to the top of the area I haven’t started to cut and continued on with my cut. Nothing else burned.  To me that was proof enough.  

I also always use the clamp for holding compound cuts. 

[jamminjack]

I have on hand.  Third,  I spray the back of the pattern with adhesive and apply it to the masking tape.  And Fourth I apply a layer of clear tape over the pattern.  I have never had a problem with taking the pattern off or removing the tape.  The blade cuts well.  If I do start to get some burning issues (on Cherry) I also use a little BEESWAX on the blade.  It works wonders. Again, this is the procedure that I follow.  I know that it is a lot of prep work, but the results are worth it. IMHO