Help with RBI 220VS vibration/noise

[fisch2481]

First time poster, but I've been a lurker for sometime. 

I recently purchased a used RBI 220VS Hawk through craigslist.  The seller indicated the saw was the most recent model when RBI stopped making them (he thought 2008/2009).  Anyway, I may have been too trusting when purchasing the saw.  The seller claimed the saw worked perfectly bu the hasn't used it in years. The seller turned on the saw to show me that it worked and helped me load it into my car. 

 

Here is where my troubles come in.  I got the saw home and set it up in my small hobby shop.  I turned the saw on (speed set to low like at the sellers) and it worked perfectly.  However, as I turned the speed up to 1/2 the saw started vibrating and shaking. The vibration chatter/noises are coming from the counterweight/flywheel area.  In addition to the noise, the saw vibrates so much that the blade starts going left/right in addition to up/down. While the saw was on, I carefully added a little pressure to the pitman arm and the noise/vibration stopped.   Is it somewhat common for the 220VS to have issues with the counterweight/pitman arm?  Do you have any suggestions on how I can repair this without sending it in?  I stretched my budget buying this saw and I can not afford to send it in for repairs.  It is worth mentioning, the counterweight was missing its set-screw.  Luckily, I had one and was able to replace it.  In addition to the missing setscrew, the bolt holding the pitman arm to the counterweight is on extremely tight.  Is it possible it is too tight and preventing it from moving freely?

 

Thank you for any help you can provide.  I'm stressing pretty hard right now; this was not a cheap "upgrade" for me.  

 

Thank you, Dan

 

Edited November 15, 2018 by fisch2481

[GrampaJim]

Contact Bushton MFG.  They make Hawk's now and have great customer service.

http://www.bushtonmanufacturing.com/index.html

[OCtoolguy]

Learning how to properly set up the saw is where I would begin. There are videos at the Hawk/Bushton site that explain a lot. I'd start there. More than likely it's mostly adjustments that are the problem. Just knowing how to set the tension on a Hawk is very important. There are a few folks here who are pretty much experts and will gladly help you. If you can post a couple of pics and maybe a video it will help immensely.

 

[fisch2481]

35 minutes ago, GrampaJim said:

Contact Bushton MFG.  They make Hawk's now and have great customer service.

http://www.bushtonmanufacturing.com/index.html

Thank you, I just sent them an email explaining my problem.  I've heard great things about their customer service, hopefully I can get this figured out.

[fisch2481]

30 minutes ago, octoolguy said:

Learning how to properly set up the saw is where I would begin. There are videos at the Hawk/Bushton site that explain a lot. I'd start there. More than likely it's mostly adjustments that are the problem. Just knowing how to set the tension on a Hawk is very important. There are a few folks here who are pretty much experts and will gladly help you. If you can post a couple of pics and maybe a video it will help immensely.

 

Thanks for the response Ray,  I'll tinker with it a bit more tonight.  I have a couple years of scrolling under my belt and I've worked with a few different machines. You are absolutely right, there is a learning curve with each new saw.  If I can't make any progress after tonight, I'll take a short video and pictures and submit them. 

[kmmcrafts]

3 hours ago, fisch2481 said:

   Is it somewhat common for the 220VS to have issues with the counterweight/pitman arm?  Do you have any suggestions on how I can repair this without sending it in?  I stretched my budget buying this saw and I can not afford to send it in for repairs.  It is worth mentioning, the counterweight was missing its set-screw.  Luckily, I had one and was able to replace it.  In addition to the missing setscrew, the bolt holding the pitman arm to the counterweight is on extremely tight.  Is it possible it is too tight and preventing it from moving freely?

 

Thank you for any help you can provide.  I'm stressing pretty hard right now; this was not a cheap "upgrade" for me.   The craigslist seller is not responding to any phones calls or emails.

 

Thank you, Dan

 

Hi Dan, 

First, welcome to the scroll saw village 

My Hawk is around that same year... While the saw is quite old.. mine was still newly boxed when I purchased it last year... Common bearing problems? I don't know how common.. but after about 4 months of use with my saw it picked up a vibration that turned out to be from the bearings in that connecting rod ( flat steel bar that connects motor to the lower saw arm).. There is a video on the Hawk web site that explains the difference between the ultra and the new BM series.. In that video they mentioned a upgrade to the BM series motor counter weight and motor.. the motors like we have has a bearing in that counter weight as well as right inside the motor casing and something about the two bearings creating heat or something.. I can't remember now without watching the video again.. but anyway.. they did in fact have some issues in that area on the older saws and they claim to have fixed that issue with the newer saws...

They do also mention about the set screw working loose and that the motor shaft has a flat spot on it.. and that they have seen that set screw wear the motor shaft clean in half.. I myself cannot phantom how the operator couldn't notice something odd in this scenario but... LOL

That bolt that holds that connecting rod to the counter weight.. they are supposed to be tight.. Mine was so tight I ended up having to remove the motor from the saw and I had to rig up some clamping contraption to hold the motor etc so I could loosen that bugger... There is a hole on the end of the motor that you stick a hex ( allen ) wrench to hold the motor from spinning while you loosen that bolt.. ( if I remember correctly ).. but it's not seen until you take the motor out, LOL.. Believe it's on the top side of the motor when it's in the saw maybe? funny how I can remember some things and not others LOL..

Anyway, good luck with it and let us know if you have any other specific questions.. Also let us know what you find out.. maybe something for the rest of us to learn upon or watch out for in purchasing a used saw    

[fisch2481]

Thanks for the detailed response Kevin.  I decided to take a closer look at the motor.... and lost some faith in humanity.  I found that the previous owner did some "work" of his own and forgot to mention it to me.   The motor was missing one of the 4 long bolts that holds the end together and I found the small polar rotor magnet was broken (part 61). 1/2 of the magnet was right by the VS control (I think that is what it is) and the other half was touching the counterweight. Is it possible that having only 1/2 of the magnet caused the VS controller to cut in and out as it tried reading the speed? I did my best to glue (temporary fix until I can get a replacement) the magnet and put it in the right place.  I put the motor back on, and presto, she's humming.  Well almost, I still get some decent vibration when I crank it up to 9 or 10 but I don't get the awful noise I was hearing before I took it apart.  I tried removing the counterweight to get a better look at things but I wasn't able to get it to move (yes I removed the set-screw before trying to remove it).  When I get get my replacement polar rotor magnet, I'll need to remove the counterweight to install it; any suggestions on how to get that off the driveshaft without damaging anything?  I'm starting to think I should have just stayed with my old Delta 24" 40-440.

[kmmcrafts]

You dug into this farther than I have so I guess I don't have any suggestions for you on taking it apart.. Maybe contact Bushton...   I only took it apart enough to get that connecting rod off to change the bearings on each end of it.. 

Sorry you got took by the dishonest seller.. Hopefully you'll be able to repair this without too much extra $$ .. I absolutely hate dishonest deals like this.. even when it happens to others.. makes my blood boil..

On a more positive note.. I think you'll find you'll love the saw once you get it running right..

Oh... I was going to mention that when you send an email to Bushton.. they don't usually respond very fast.. it's much better to give them a call... They run multi pal small business's and also are Farmers.. so I think they respond to email when they get a chance.. where as a phone call it much quicker.. and sometimes easier to explain something in detail too.. 

[fisch2481]

You're the man.  Thank you

[SCROLLSAW703]

Excellent work! 

The magnet is a weak spot in the 220 VS, & is known for breakage. From the sounds of it, Your saw has had some backyard mechanic work done to it as it is, & presented more issues to be dealt with. Fine job of diggin' in & figurin' out the issue!

Keep crankin' out the sawdust!

Sawdust703(Brad)