Rockytime Posted November 30, 2018 Report Share Posted November 30, 2018 My 220VS Ultra Hawk runs very smoothly until I get past the 3/4 mark on the speed control. After that there is quite a bit of vibration. It is not a problem as I cut just shy of the vibration. I'm wondering if others find their Hawks doing the same or should I be looking for a problem? OCtoolguy and SCROLLSAW703 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTTHECLOCKMAN Posted November 30, 2018 Report Share Posted November 30, 2018 (edited) Been that way forever. I never go any faster than that anyway. Call RBI to solve the problem if they can. Has to do with harmonics. The movement of the long arms up and down. They will tell you the story and what to do. The first thing will be to anchor the stand down to a solid surface and have the legs splayed properly That is a must with all saws. Check all bolts are tight. Good luck. Edited November 30, 2018 by JTTHECLOCKMAN OCtoolguy and SCROLLSAW703 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgman Posted November 30, 2018 Report Share Posted November 30, 2018 My guess is you don’t have your saw mounted to the factory stand. SCROLLSAW703 and OCtoolguy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmmcrafts Posted November 30, 2018 Report Share Posted November 30, 2018 My Hawk 226 Ultra is pretty darn smooth from slowest setting until just before Half way on the dial.. even thin it's not horrible.. better than some of the cheap saws I've had at any speed, LOL.. Anyway it smooths back out again just a few hundred SPM past that first little bit of vibration area.. then it's smooth sailing from there to full speed.. BUT.. as mentioned.. I had to fuss with the stand quite a lot to get it completely level to my floor.. Before I did that it was only vibration free at only a few select speeds.. and non were where I like to run it.. LOL I most times run mine about 3/4 of the way up on the dial.. sometimes 7/8 the way up.. My stand never came with any kind of feet on it.. and I could never get it to run as smooth as my older Hawk 220.. and I bought some adjustable feet for it at the hardware store like I did with the 220 when I first got it... I kept playing around with those adjustable feet until I got it to run smooth throughout most of the speed ranges.. there is one spot on the dial I believe on all Hawks that does have a little more vibration.. I think Randy ( Hotshot ) mentioned about this when he got his BM series Hawk as well as Iggy.. Anyway they all called it a sweet spot... I never could figure that out because that vibration isn't sweet to me.. so I call it a sour spot on the dial... the rest of the dial selections are sweet spots LOL OCtoolguy and SCROLLSAW703 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCROLLSAW703 Posted November 30, 2018 Report Share Posted November 30, 2018 Howdy Mr. Les, If your saw is cuttin' smooth up to 3/4 throttle, Mr. Les, my first question would be is your saw good and level? And what are ya usin' for blades? If it is, the next thing I would look into would be the wedge at the back of the saw. If it is wearing deep into the bevel, that can cause vibration. You may check your mounting bolts, and the bolts in the end of the motor to make sure they are good and tight. Check to make sure your blade and table are both square with one another, Mr. Les. Something else you may want to check, Mr. Les, is make sure your motor is tight. Sometimes on the 220VS, the motor has a tendency to work lose. Something else you might check into, Mr. Les, is the bearings in the top and bottom arms. Do a "wiggle test" on your bearings and see if you can feel any back and forth or up and down movement in your bearings. If you can, you've got bearings on their way out, Sir. Truthfully, if that doesn't cover it, you've most likely got a bent top or bottom arm, or need to need to send the top arm in for some machine work at the bevel area. Sawdust703(Brad) OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hineps Posted November 30, 2018 Report Share Posted November 30, 2018 Those machines may be hitting a resonance driven by that particular speed. Like plucking the string on a guitar. You can change a resonance 3 ways. Increase the mass ( add weight to the stand or saw. )Increase or decrease the stiffness. ( work with the stand construction.) Change the driving force ( by changing the speed.) I have an old craftsman saw that vibrated towards the top of the speed range. I added 50 lbs of weight to the stand and even put additional weight under the table. I was able to settle it down enough to be usable. In the vibration world we call those "critical speeds" and don't allow the machines to run at that speed or make the corrections mentioned above. Phil SCROLLSAW703 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevan Posted November 30, 2018 Report Share Posted November 30, 2018 Some more anecdotal data here. Mine is smooth up to just short of the 50% mark. Then it seems to hit that "harmonic" spot from that point to about 60%. It will smooth out above the 60% mark and then is good up to about 85%. Consequently, most of my work is at the 40% - 45% speed level. SCROLLSAW703 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockytime Posted November 30, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2018 Thanks for the replies. I guess I was wondering if any Hawk owners had a saw that was vibration free at full speed. Ray mentioned on another thread, "will it vibrate at full speed." That is what precipitated the question. My saw is great up to 3/4 range. I will never get it better as the saw is on wheels by necessity. I pull it back and forth to facilitate getting to the gates on my DC. I never need to cut at much over 2/3 on the speed control so everything is going fine. My question is only one of curiosity. I still wonder id the Hegner will pass the nickle test at full speed. SCROLLSAW703 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTTHECLOCKMAN Posted November 30, 2018 Report Share Posted November 30, 2018 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Rockytime said: Thanks for the replies. I guess I was wondering if any Hawk owners had a saw that was vibration free at full speed. Ray mentioned on another thread, "will it vibrate at full speed." That is what precipitated the question. My saw is great up to 3/4 range. I will never get it better as the saw is on wheels by necessity. I pull it back and forth to facilitate getting to the gates on my DC. I never need to cut at much over 2/3 on the speed control so everything is going fine. My question is only one of curiosity. I still wonder id the Hegner will pass the nickle test at full speed. Different type of stand. 3 legged tripod was designed for those reasons. My hegner will run at all speeds no vibration. Dewalt did the same. The thing with Dewalt though it is cheap metal bolted in so many places so the design is sort of countered. Hegner saw is not bolted it is welded. Makes a difference. RBI is also bolted and now you are dealing with 4 legs need to be level and tight and splayed right.. These come into play all the time. Edited November 30, 2018 by JTTHECLOCKMAN SCROLLSAW703 and OCtoolguy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockytime Posted November 30, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2018 JT, you are absolutely correct, just like an electrician's ladder. I would like to see a video at full speed to see if that nickel will still stand. I'm a doubter. OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTTHECLOCKMAN Posted November 30, 2018 Report Share Posted November 30, 2018 37 minutes ago, Rockytime said: JT, you are absolutely correct, just like an electrician's ladder. I would like to see a video at full speed to see if that nickel will still stand. I'm a doubter. I have no doubt. You would need someone to do a video of the speed thing. leaves me out. OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmmcrafts Posted November 30, 2018 Report Share Posted November 30, 2018 (edited) Hotshot did a video of his BM series with the nickle test.. It's on Youtube.. Edited November 30, 2018 by kmmcrafts OCtoolguy and SCROLLSAW703 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockytime Posted December 1, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2018 Thanks Kevin.I looked on you tube a while ago but did not find it. It appears the speed selector was at minimum. I do not believe it could happen at full throttle. If I were t level my Hawk it would also pass the nickle test at low speed. The whole thing is academic since I never go beyond 3/4. It was just something that piqued my interest. I appreciate all the feed back. Very interesting. SCROLLSAW703 and OCtoolguy 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockytime Posted December 1, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2018 I just watched the video again. I was wrong. I believe it was running full bore. Now if I can get the egg off my face! OCtoolguy and kmmcrafts 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCtoolguy Posted December 1, 2018 Report Share Posted December 1, 2018 4 hours ago, Rockytime said: I just watched the video again. I was wrong. I believe it was running full bore. Now if I can get the egg off my face! Crow is best serviced with red wine. SCROLLSAW703 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCROLLSAW703 Posted December 1, 2018 Report Share Posted December 1, 2018 Mr. Les, I don't want to rain on your parade, or yours, JT, but I've got my BM - 26 sittin' on casters on an a wood shop floor, and it'll do the nickel test at full throttle. Being welded to the base would make quite a difference, as well as absorb even more vibration. But in turn, if the your saw is tuned properly, and kept that way on a level floor, there is no reason why it shouldn't pass the test. Sawdust703(Brad) OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockytime Posted December 1, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2018 I could spot weld where all the bolted joints are. SCROLLSAW703 and OCtoolguy 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCROLLSAW703 Posted December 2, 2018 Report Share Posted December 2, 2018 Good morning Mr. Les, Well Sir, It's your saw, & that'd be your decision, Sir. Were it me, I wouldn't spot weld anything on my Hawk as it sits. Reason being, it is designed to take the vibration and shock just the way it sits. I believe my next step, were I in your boots, would be to call and have a chat with Miss Nicole and get her thoughts on the situation before I spot welded anything. But again, it's your saw, my friend. Take whatever action you feel is necessary. Sawdust703(brad) OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockytime Posted December 2, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2018 Good afternoon Brad, I would never spot weld or any kind of weld. That would basically ruin the value of the saw and never be un done. In clock repair the rule is "Do No Harm." Repairs should be done to restore to close to original as possible. No, it is working admirably. OCtoolguy and SCROLLSAW703 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCtoolguy Posted December 2, 2018 Report Share Posted December 2, 2018 It seems to me that a degree of jocularity has been issued and missed here guys. I don't know Les personally but I have come to recognize his sense of humor. SCROLLSAW703 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCROLLSAW703 Posted December 2, 2018 Report Share Posted December 2, 2018 Good afternoon, I'm not sure about them big fancy words, Mr. Ray, I was simply giving Mr. Les a different viewpoint. My apologies if it was mistook for somethin' else. From your post Mr. Les, it sounds like it is runnin' to your satisfaction. I'll bow out of this conversation. Sawdust703(brad) OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCtoolguy Posted December 2, 2018 Report Share Posted December 2, 2018 13 minutes ago, SCROLLSAW703 said: Good afternoon, I'm not sure about them big fancy words, Mr. Ray, I was simply giving Mr. Les a different viewpoint. My apologies if it was mistook for somethin' else. From your post Mr. Les, it sounds like it is runnin' to your satisfaction. I'll bow out of this conversation. Sawdust703(brad) Brad, I might be way off base but I think Les was pulling your leg on that "welding" comment. That's all I meant. If I'm wrong, I most humbly apologize. Sometimes we all say things here in print that doesn't come off the way they are intended. I'm terribly bad at doing that. I too have a weird sense of humor. SCROLLSAW703 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCROLLSAW703 Posted December 2, 2018 Report Share Posted December 2, 2018 Mr. Ray, No worries Sir. More times than not, I am more outspoken than the subject requires. Most of that come from my trucking career. You either speak up, or get run over. Fact of the business. My Bride tells me quite often I should back off a subject and let the youngsters figure it out because my .02 worth of knowledge won't mean a tinker's damn to them anyhow. So, I an slowly learning that there are posts I think I should comment on, and others I should just leave to those involved. Sawdust703(brad) OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTTHECLOCKMAN Posted December 3, 2018 Report Share Posted December 3, 2018 He I am still looking for a rain coat. SCROLLSAW703 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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