New to scrolling - a few basic questions.

[JT1986]

I’m very new to scrolling (<2 months) and have some questions I’m hoping some of you could help out with.

1. Table Insert. Occasionally, my blades will bend back into the table insert causing some damage to it. Unaware as the wood covers it while scrolling. I’ve tried adjusting the tension and slowing down my cuts. This was more obvious with very small kerf blades . Any suggestions? (Images attached)

2. Small cuts. I wanted to get into signage. I have no idea how to cut small letters without A. The wood chipping B. The wood not flying off of the blade.

3. What blades to use? I purchased a variety. I like the reverse tooth best. Wondering what is a safe bet blade to use. Slightly overwhelmed with the options, what wood to use for different blades, etc.

I’ve been scrolling with MDF and 1/4 ply. The scroll saw is a porter cable.

Thanks everyone! 

Looking forward to being apart of the scrolling community!

[Woodrush]

Throw the table insert in the garbage and make one out of wood.the inserts are a common problem on those saws

[dgman]

The reason you are cutting into the insert is you are applying lateral pressure to the blade when in a curve. You need to let the blade do the the cutting, not forcing the wood into the blade. Also you should have a high tension on the blade. You want to hear a high “ping” when you pluck the blade.

BTW, welcome to the Village!

[Scrappile]

Welcome to the forum, glad to have you joined us. 

Inserts are expendable, that is why they have them that can be removed and replaced.  I make my own  with a much smaller hole for the blade to go through.  Eventually the hole gets bigger and bigger as I use that insert, so I just replace it.  The smaller hole helps prevent chip out on the back of your scrolling stock.  Also gives more support to the piece so small fragile pieces do not break off a disappear so easily.  Also using a sacrificial board taped, nailed or somehow attached to the back of your work piece helps prevents chip out. Reverse tooth blades also help. 

I find blade size/type is pretty much personal preference and having a variety of sizes and types is a good thing.  There are charts on the internet like at the Olsen blade site that give guidance,  but it still boils down to personal preference.  Practice with different ones to learn what works best for you.

There are many videos on Youtude about scrolling, many by Steve Good, that are a big help also.  On this site under the "Resources" tab is an "Articles" section, lots of help there, and as you are doing, ask question on this forum... You will get lots of good info.

[Rockytime]

Hi Jeff, I'm sure your problem is not near enough blade tension.Lack of sufficient tension forces you to apply excessive pressure to get the blade to cut. I tighten to e above high c. Just kidding of course. BTW, welcome to the Village.

[SCROLLSAW703]

Howdy, and welcome to the village,

Being a beginner in this hobby can be the most trying times in your scrolling career, at the same time, the times you may learn the most.

As mentioned in afore posts, the truth of the matter is, your blade insert is a "throw away" part of your scroll saw. If you were to look up your saw online, and look at the parts breakdown, and check the price of the blade insert, at best, it would cost you $1.00 or thereabouts. The solution to that ongoing issue is to make more than one at a time, keep them where you can find them, and be done with it.

Not much more can be added to dgman's direct solving your issue with cutting into your insert. The main thing I would strengthen is the tension factor. Especially with smaller kerf blades. As a rule, you want more tension on smaller blades, less tension on larger blades. 

With that said, make no mistake, in any case, your tension should still be a "ping" when the tension is adjusted correctly, but, with a larger blade, you will notice a deeper tone "ping." It won't be the high pitched "ping" as with the the smaller kerf blades. When adjusting tension on a blade, I have found the best way for me to do so is to install the blade in the holders, adjust just enough tension against the blade until it is "snug." Run the blade on low speed for a minute or so, stop it, recheck the tension. The tension will have to be readjusted because what this does is "stretch" the blade, and help prevent more than necessary tension adjustments. From here, adjust tension on your blade to cutting tension. 

I would also agree with dgman on the fact that you are putting far to much lateral pressure towards the blade. The harder you "push" into the blade, you are going to get the results you are having. The idea, again, as mentioned, is to let the blade do the work. Just like any other saw. 

If you will, allow me to pass on a piece of advice I read in a scroll saw book I read when I was just learning. This particular author, whom I'm not able to recall at the time, went into great lengths with his examples and discussions, especially for the beginning scroll sawyer. His favorite quote throughout the entire book was "if you didn't have a lick of patience before you began scrolling, your scroll saw will kindly oblige you in that aspect."

What he meant by that is the fact that if you are short on patience going into this hobby, your scroll saw will gladly teach you the patience required. It also helps to be somewhat of a problem solver, as well.

Best of luck to, and keep practicin'.

Sawdust703(Brad)

[RabidAlien]

Regarding cutting letters....most of the answers above apply.  Make sure your blade is tensioned properly, and GO SLOW.  For smaller projects (like Steve Good's 3D Christmas ornaments, for example), build yourself a jig to hold the letters, so your fingers are on the jig and not anywhere near the running blade.  Here's a simple jig I copied from Steve Good's site, just two scrap pieces of wood, drill a hole near each end, run a lag bolt through, then washer/wingnut.  I get it good and snug, and can cut right up to where my chubby fingers would be overlapping the edge of the project with no fear of losing skin/blood.

 

[Rockytime]

1 hour ago, RabidAlien said:

Regarding cutting letters....most of the answers above apply.  Make sure your blade is tensioned properly, and GO SLOW.  For smaller projects (like Steve Good's 3D Christmas ornaments, for example), build yourself a jig to hold the letters, so your fingers are on the jig and not anywhere near the running blade.  Here's a simple jig I copied from Steve Good's site, just two scrap pieces of wood, drill a hole near each end, run a lag bolt through, then washer/wingnut.  I get it good and snug, and can cut right up to where my chubby fingers would be overlapping the edge of the project with no fear of losing skin/blood.

 

I made a Steve Good jig. I'm curious as to what kind of saw you use. Looks like you are doing a pretty nice job.

[JT1986]

Thanks all for the advice/suggestions.

Much appreciated!

 

Jeff

[RabidAlien]

1 hour ago, Rockytime said:

I made a Steve Good jig. I'm curious as to what kind of saw you use. Looks like you are doing a pretty nice job.

I've got an old Dremel 57-2.  Saving my pennies to get a DeWalt 788 some day so I can graduate up to 6" blades and all the fun, exciting options that entails.

[Rockytime]

Looks like it is doing a good job for you. Keep up the good work

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

The one thing I took away from your questions and your post is the statement of you scroll MDF and 1/4 plywood. Both material but especially MDF is a nasty hazardous dusty material that is not good for the lungs. A good mask and dust collection system would be well advised. You did not say what type of plywood but whatever it is it will be rough on blades because of the layers and the adhesives used to make it. Some plywoods are not good for breathing the dust either. 

The questions were answered so I won;t touch those. Welcome to the site and the world of scrolling.  

[SCROLLSAW703]

Good morning,

I concur with JT on the plywood and MDF dust. If possible, were I you, I would set up a box fan with ac filters attached to both sides of it, and run the fan on low or medium. This allows the fan to pull the dust away from your work area, and blow clean air back into your environment so you're not breathing all the dust. 

The next thing I would do is pitch the plywood in the trash can and start using wood. Not knowing your whereabouts, there may be construction going on all around you. Find you a couple of those places and have a chat with the job foreman to get permission to get some of the used lumber they are throwing in the dumpster. It will be construction grade pine or fir, but will be MUCH easier on blades, and you will also find your blades will last longer in wood.

If you happen to know a friend or someone with a thickness planer, you can plane your findings down to 1/2", 3/8", or whatever tickles your fancy. My advice would be to make sure EVERY nail is out of your findings as they will destroy planer blades in a heart beat. You'll be able to cut letters so much easier starting out in wood than you will in plywood or MDF, and your letters will stay in one piece for you. 

I would still recommend wearing a dust mask, regardless.

Sawdust703(Brad)

[OCtoolguy]

4 hours ago, SCROLLSAW703 said:

Good morning,

I concur with JT on the plywood and MDF dust. If possible, were I you, I would set up a box fan with ac filters attached to both sides of it, and run the fan on low or medium. This allows the fan to pull the dust away from your work area, and blow clean air back into your environment so you're not breathing all the dust. 

The next thing I would do is pitch the plywood in the trash can and start using wood. Not knowing your whereabouts, there may be construction going on all around you. Find you a couple of those places and have a chat with the job foreman to get permission to get some of the used lumber they are throwing in the dumpster. It will be construction grade pine or fir, but will be MUCH easier on blades, and you will also find your blades will last longer in wood.

If you happen to know a friend or someone with a thickness planer, you can plane your findings down to 1/2", 3/8", or whatever tickles your fancy. My advice would be to make sure EVERY nail is out of your findings as they will destroy planer blades in a heart beat. You'll be able to cut letters so much easier starting out in wood than you will in plywood or MDF, and your letters will stay in one piece for you. 

I would still recommend wearing a dust mask, regardless.

Sawdust703(Brad)

2

Great advice Brad. Here where I live, everything that is recyclable gets recycled so finding scraps of anything is nye impossible.

 

[CharleyL]

One thing that  I read  in the OP's post is that "his blade is bending enough to cut his insert".

To me, that says that he is either pushing his work into the blade way too hard, or his blade is not tensioned tight enough and it is bowing backwards, or maybe a combination of  both, but the damage that I can see on his insert looks to me like he is pushing the blade sideways, another newbie mistake. Scroll saw blades only cut when the work is pushed away from you and into the front side of the  blade and teeth that are facing you, at least when the blade is inserted correctly, and you are not using a spiral blade.  You also have to realize that the teeth on the blade are very tiny, and not at all as large as the teeth of the blades on the rest of your woodworking tools. Scroll sawing is a slow and exact process. Don't expect to fly through the cutting process like you do with your other woodworking tools.  Concentrate on pushing the work only when you have the line being cut oriented so the blade follows it. You don't have to cut as fast as the blade can cut. You can even pause the cut and leave the saw running for brief periods, then push the work and cut a little further and stop again, or pause while you get the work turned enough to follow the line again. Accuracy is what you should be striving for, not speed.

Great results can be achieved if you learn to feed the work into the blade no harder than the tiny blade teeth can cut the material. Smaller blades can cut tighter curves, but have smaller teeth, so they cut slower. An additional plus to using smaller blades is that the finish of the cut is smoother and requires less or no sanding afterward. If your blade is burning the wood your blade is dull, you are running the saw too fast for the material being cut, or you are pushing the work sideways against the side of the blade. It requires practice to learn how to pick the right blade for the work being cut, and how to recognize when you are cutting properly. Learn to rest your palms on the front of the saw table, or that position on your work if it extends over this area of the saw table. Then feed and steer your work into the blade with just your finger tips and not your arms and elbows. You will find that you can follow the lines better and make tighter turns when you master this technique. The only important spot to watch is the line where it is just in front of the blade and steer the work with your fingers so the blade follows the line ,or just to the waste side of the line if you are doing small work.  Scroll sawing is a journey, not a destination. You will get to the destination, eventually, but while on the journey concentrate on following the lines as accurately as you can. This isn't easy and requires practice too, but you will get much better at it with lots of practice and patience.  

Don't hesitate to ask more questions. I'm sure you will have plenty. One of us should be able to answer any question that you may have. We love to help the newbies.

Charley

[OCtoolguy]

5 hours ago, CharleyL said:

One thing that  I read  in the OP's post is that "his blade is bending enough to cut his insert".

To me, that says that he is either pushing his work into the blade way too hard, or his blade is not tensioned tight enough and it is bowing backwards, or maybe a combination of  both, but the damage that I can see on his insert looks to me like he is pushing the blade sideways, another newbie mistake. Scroll saw blades only cut when the work is pushed away from you and into the front side of the  blade and teeth that are facing you, at least when the blade is inserted correctly, and you are not using a spiral blade.  You also have to realize that the teeth on the blade are very tiny, and not at all as large as the teeth of the blades on the rest of your woodworking tools. Scroll sawing is a slow and exact process. Don't expect to fly through the cutting process like you do with your other woodworking tools.  Concentrate on pushing the work only when you have the line being cut oriented so the blade follows it. You don't have to cut as fast as the blade can cut. You can even pause the cut and leave the saw running for brief periods, then push the work and cut a little further and stop again, or pause while you get the work turned enough to follow the line again. Accuracy is what you should be striving for, not speed.

Great results can be achieved if you learn to feed the work into the blade no harder than the tiny blade teeth can cut the material. Smaller blades can cut tighter curves, but have smaller teeth, so they cut slower. An additional plus to using smaller blades is that the finish of the cut is smoother and requires less or no sanding afterward. If your blade is burning the wood your blade is dull, you are running the saw too fast for the material being cut, or you are pushing the work sideways against the side of the blade. It requires practice to learn how to pick the right blade for the work being cut, and how to recognize when you are cutting properly. Learn to rest your palms on the front of the saw table, or that position on your work if it extends over this area of the saw table. Then feed and steer your work into the blade with just your finger tips and not your arms and elbows. You will find that you can follow the lines better and make tighter turns when you master this technique. The only important spot to watch is the line where it is just in front of the blade and steer the work with your fingers so the blade follows the line ,or just to the waste side of the line if you are doing small work.  Scroll sawing is a journey, not a destination. You will get to the destination, eventually, but while on the journey concentrate on following the lines as accurately as you can. This isn't easy and requires practice too, but you will get much better at it with lots of practice and patience.  

Don't hesitate to ask more questions. I'm sure you will have plenty. One of us should be able to answer any question that you may have. We love to help the newbies.

Charley

Great advice Charley.

 

[JT1986]

23 hours ago, SCROLLSAW703 said:

Good morning,

I concur with JT on the plywood and MDF dust. If possible, were I you, I would set up a box fan with ac filters attached to both sides of it, and run the fan on low or medium. This allows the fan to pull the dust away from your work area, and blow clean air back into your environment so you're not breathing all the dust. 

The next thing I would do is pitch the plywood in the trash can and start using wood. Not knowing your whereabouts, there may be construction going on all around you. Find you a couple of those places and have a chat with the job foreman to get permission to get some of the used lumber they are throwing in the dumpster. It will be construction grade pine or fir, but will be MUCH easier on blades, and you will also find your blades will last longer in wood.

If you happen to know a friend or someone with a thickness planer, you can plane your findings down to 1/2", 3/8", or whatever tickles your fancy. My advice would be to make sure EVERY nail is out of your findings as they will destroy planer blades in a heart beat. You'll be able to cut letters so much easier starting out in wood than you will in plywood or MDF, and your letters will stay in one piece for you. 

I would still recommend wearing a dust mask, regardless.

Sawdust703(Brad)

Thanks, Brad. I did purchase a valved mask as I heard MDF can be harmful. 

The reason for scrolling ply is I needed something large enough for the projects I was working on. I created a few dog silhouette's for some friends and needed a large piece of 1/4" wood. Unfortunately, I do not have access to a planer. What else could I use, aside from ply, for larger projects?

 

Thanks again. 

[SCROLLSAW703]

Howdy JT,

Well Sir, my first question would be then, just how large of pieces do you need for your projects? Do ya have the equipment to manage sizeable pieces of sheet lumber? There are a number of options to look at.

You could go to hobby lobby and purchase the smaller pieces of baltic birch. It's better quality, and a little easier on blades. You could visit a couple cabinet shops in the area and see if they have any better quality plywood they'd part with, or even sell you a sheet of baltic birch plywood. 

Not having access to a planer has a tendency to put a feller in a tight at times. My thoughts were ya could plane your findings to thickness, then do a glue up and put your wood together until you've worked out your width and length. Then you could trim it to size on the table saw, and you'd be ready to go.

BUUUUT, since you don't have access to a planer, the only other choice you would have would be is to purchase your lumber in sheets. That is the way I would go about it. Baltic birch comes in 5' x 5' sheets. Most other sheet products are 4' x 8'. If you aren't able to handle a full sheet, where ever you purchase your lumber should be able to cut the sheet down to size so you can manage it. Man! So much for that brainstorm, huh?

Sawdust703(brad)