I think my Hawk is wore out

[Oldmansbike]

I have a Hawk 226 Ultra that I bought new in 1996. It's had a lot of use in those years and I think it's wearing out. Today I was cutting on it and I noticed there was more vibration than normal. Then the upper arm wouldn't pop up when you unhook the blade. I didn't have time to look at to see what the problem is today but hopefully I will this weekend. Does anyone have any suggestions on what to look for or maybe I need to consider a new one? Thanks

[kmmcrafts]

As far as the arm not going up when releasing the blade.. that could be just a weak spring.. there is a spring at the back of the saw that pulls the arm up when the blade is released.. those springs get weak over time.. Mine is weak as well and I now have to give it a tap or light bump to help it go.. I need to get a new spring for it.. I think you can probably just take it off and match it up to one at a hardware store.. or just help keep Hawk in business and order one from them..   

The added vibration could be a bearing running dry on grease... It seems to me the ones that I've seen from reading others postings and my own experience the main ones that I've seen people having to replace is the main connecting rod ones.. this would be the bearings in that flat stock rod that connects the motor to the lower arm.. I've seen a few cases where people have had to order a new connecting rod.. I opted to just press out the old bearings and pressed new ones in.. but you need to make sure not to bend that rod... it is just light weight aluminum.. though about 1/4 + thick.. but could be bent pressing bearings in or out if not careful... 

[Rockytime]

First thing that comes to mind is the spring at the back of the arm.

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

My 2 cents worth. Yes the spring could be getting weak. If so take some length out of it by recutting it and putting back under the screw. Easy enough to do or find one probably in Lowes or Home Depot. 

Second the arm bushing could become dry and wont allow great movement. Take spring off and feel the tension on the bearing. Should be easliy moved up and down and if not then that bearings may need to be replaced. 

Third thing is and this could lead to your vibration thing too, is that lever handle has a tendency to float over toward the side of the arm and rubs on it. This adds resistance to that arm lifting. Even though it is metal on metal it still can wear. I will usually get a metal noise hard to describe when that happens but know what it is so just move over again and is good for many many hours again.  As I said many times here before I hardly ever play with that lever and never had to replace and my saw is as old. If I change blades to a larger blade I will just nip some of the top of the blade and keep same setting. Only do I touch that lever is when I switch to very fine blades such as Jewelers blades. 

Also the vibration thing always check the obvious. Make sure the table nuts and bolts have not come loose. Make sure the 4 legs are sitting firmly and splayed properly. Make sure there is no small pieces of wood caught under the arms or build up of sawdust around moving points. Make sure all things are tight. Vibration can be transmitted many different ways and tough to locate. But a thorough check of things eliminates things. The people at RBI will tell you to do these things first off. 

[Oldmansbike]

Thanks all.  I will check all those things out. I have to go back to work today so it will be tomorrow before I can get to it. Sucks having to go back to work on a Friday.

[Oldmansbike]

I unhooked the spring this morning before I went to work. The arm moves up and down but has spots where it drags so I'm guessing the bearings are worn too along with the spring. Will tear into it tomorrow.

[OCtoolguy]

9 hours ago, Oldmansbike said:

Thanks all.  I will check all those things out. I have to go back to work today so it will be tomorrow before I can get to it. Sucks having to go back to work on a Friday.

Sucks having to go back to work. Period!

 

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Before you rip out and replace bearings you can try some bearing lubricant spray. I am not sure if they even make this any more but I use Sandaro bearing lubricant and have for years mainly on my router bit bearings and it is good stuff. Can't hurt to try something. Not WD40 stay far away from that stuff around bearings. 

I guess Bostic bought them out or something but it is the same can so not sure what happened. http://www.wurthlac.com/storefront/adhesives-lubricants/lubricants/bearing-lubricant-5-oz-/prodSDBL5.html

[OCtoolguy]

17 hours ago, JTTHECLOCKMAN said:

Before you rip out and replace bearings you can try some bearing lubricant spray. I am not sure if they even make this any more but I use Sandaro bearing lubricant and have for years mainly on my router bit bearings and it is good stuff. Can't hurt to try something. Not WD40 stay far away from that stuff around bearings. 

I guess Bostic bought them out or something but it is the same can so not sure what happened. http://www.wurthlac.com/storefront/adhesives-lubricants/lubricants/bearing-lubricant-5-oz-/prodSDBL5.html

Thanks for that link JT. I'm gonna order some.

 

[Oldmansbike]

I took it apart today and here's what I found. The bearings on both arms turned but not like they should. They were very dry feeling. I sprayed them with silicone spray and that did a world of good. They were still tight so I reused them. I put some grease in them before I put the saw back together. I also discovered that the saw was not assembled right from the factory. The round thing in the bottom arm that the tension rod goes through was not in its hole in the arm. I put it in the hole when I reassembled the saw. There was very little wear in the v on the arm where the wedge sits. After I got it together I turned it on and was surprised that the vibration was almost gone. Still have some in the upper range but I never cut there anyway. I ordered a new spring from Bushton and should be good to go after its installed. Thanks for your help.

[kmmcrafts]

53 minutes ago, Oldmansbike said:

I took it apart today and here's what I found. The bearings on both arms turned but not like they should. They were very dry feeling. I sprayed them with silicone spray and that did a world of good. They were still tight so I reused them. I put some grease in them before I put the saw back together. I also discovered that the saw was not assembled right from the factory. The round thing in the bottom arm that the tension rod goes through was not in its hole in the arm. I put it in the hole when I reassembled the saw. There was very little wear in the v on the arm where the wedge sits. After I got it together I turned it on and was surprised that the vibration was almost gone. Still have some in the upper range but I never cut there anyway. I ordered a new spring from Bushton and should be good to go after its installed. Thanks for your help.

Interesting find.. 1996 and never been apart.. probably never had any other maintenance done? short of a couple drops of oil on the wedge? 

Glad you was able to get it figured out..  

[Oldmansbike]

The only maintenance I have done to it over the years was couple drops of oil on the bearings whenever I would think of it and keeping the sawdust cleaned off of it. That was all RBI recommend in the manual.

[OCtoolguy]

The more I hear you guys all praising the Hawk, the more it makes me want one. I'm going to scour the c/l ads until I find a good deal on one. I realize that there have been motor problems over the years and each time I have sent the serial number to Bushton they have answered back quickly to inform me whether or not it was one to watch out for. I kind of know which ones to watch for and the blade mechanism to get. I really don't want to buy an old saw and have to update it.

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Mine is the year they went to the square blade holders so probably around the same year. Never did any maintenance on them and they run like a clock. Can not say enough good things about those saws. If you find one in that range Ray and is a decent price give it a try. As with all saws they may need some getting use to but nothing drastic. Outside of the tension lever, blade clamps, and those silly plastic blade holders that I made a spring steel one for replacement, nothing has been replaced and many many many hours are on them and more to come. 

[OCtoolguy]

19 hours ago, JTTHECLOCKMAN said:

Mine is the year they went to the square blade holders so probably around the same year. Never did any maintenance on them and they run like a clock. Can not say enough good things about those saws. If you find one in that range Ray and is a decent price give it a try. As with all saws they may need some getting use to but nothing drastic. Outside of the tension lever, blade clamps, and those silly plastic blade holders that I made a spring steel one for replacement, nothing has been replaced and many many many hours are on them and more to come. 

I'm not sure I know what you are referring to JT. Plastic blade holders?

 

[kmmcrafts]

1 hour ago, octoolguy said:

I'm not sure I know what you are referring to JT. Plastic blade holders?

 

Plastic piece that goes on the lower arm to keep your blade holder from falling on the floor when there is no tension on the blade... or if you break the blade the blade holder stays put so you don't loose it... I think I've read of other saws that if the blade breaks sometimes the lower blade chuck comes up missing, LOL..

[Rockytime]

Ray, I think JT is referring to a small spring like thing that just holds the bottom blade clamp in position.

[OCtoolguy]

7 minutes ago, Rockytime said:

Ray, I think JT is referring to a small spring like thing that just holds the bottom blade clamp in position.

Probably similar to the spring retainer clip on the lower blade clamp on the Hegner. Something that could be easily upgraded by Hawk.

 

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

3 hours ago, octoolguy said:

Probably similar to the spring retainer clip on the lower blade clamp on the Hegner. Something that could be easily upgraded by Hawk.

 

Yes Ray same thing. The Hegner is metal. Why that has never been upgraded is a mystery because they do become stretched and what happens the clamp can slip to the notch that you do not want it in which is probably the more aggressive cutting mode. I know right away if that happens so I move it. But with the spring steel one it rarely happens, unless I set it there from the get go.  Not sure what the new saws have and Kevin will give us all a report when he gets his new saw. 

[rdv464]

JT, you mentioned the use of Bostik bearing lubricant, how does that work as an oil lubracant on escrow saw bearings. I  bought a can today at the Woodcraft store !! Is it better than using light weight oil, I have never seen any thing like it so thought I would ask . It's not cheap, 18.00 for a 5.5 oz can. Would be interested in knowing how much better than oil it might be. thanks 

Roger

[rdv464]

I meant scroll saw not escrow!!!

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

47 minutes ago, rdv464 said:

JT, you mentioned the use of Bostik bearing lubricant, how does that work as an oil lubracant on escrow saw bearings. I  bought a can today at the Woodcraft store !! Is it better than using light weight oil, I have never seen any thing like it so thought I would ask . It's not cheap, 18.00 for a 5.5 oz can. Would be interested in knowing how much better than oil it might be. thanks 

Roger

Roger I do not use it on scrollsaw bearing. Most scrollsaw bearings are enclosed and sealed and should not need lubrication because you are not going to be able to get any in anyway. Usually when bearings go on a scrollsaw they need replacing. I mentioned the use of that stuff for ball bearing items such as router bits. Scrollsaw bearing are mainly needle bearings and the best lubricant for those is grease. A good quality grease made to take heat. Many times bearings like that get repacked but if sealed you are not getting apart. Now that spray is good for pivot points that rub and I suggested to someone instead of taking his bearings out to try some of that before he removes them He is not going to be able to spray in there. It is better than oils if there is no reservoir for the oils. (motors are different because they have a reservoir to hold oils. )  

What scrollsaw are you referring to??

Edited December 31, 2018 by JTTHECLOCKMAN

[rdv464]

JT, the saw I was referring to the was my RBI 226 Ultra!! thanks for the info

[kmmcrafts]

Hawk wasn't the best about updating their manuals I don't think... I also think there is some mis understanding about the saw maintenance of the saw.. The book says one thing and they say another..

I don't know when they changed the style of bearings they use.. it's been a little while since I took my newer saw apart to look at the bearings in the arms.. but if I remember correctly the Ultra has caged bearings and the way this is set up I do not really see how a few drops if oil will even get to the bearing.. The older Hawk has a total different set up... and yes.. I can see needing to oil that one periodically.. From what I've read about the new BM series.. they also use the same cage type bearing as the Ultra does.. 

When I took my Ultra apart there was no oil grease or any other type of lube in these bearings that I could see.. Not sure how these cage bearings work.. but I packed the bearing with synthetic grease and put it back together.. Maybe they don't need the grease for as little movement these arms do.. but I figured it can't hurt. 

I believe the folks at Hawk says these do not need oiled..  I can't remember if they told me this or if it was in the videos.. I think it was the videos on their site that mentioned it. Yet the manual say to oil the bearings, LOL ... I think the only oil spots now are the back wedge.. and then a dry graphite for the tension cam mechanism at the front of the saws upper arm.. Guess I'll find out when I get me new saw..

 

    

[Oldmansbike]

Kevin the bearings I took out of my saw were what you called cage bearings(open on one side). They were ball bearings with no grease in them at all. I put grease in them before I put the saw back together.  I'm like you I don't see how any oil would get inside them without taking the saw apart. There was no sawdust at all In the bearings so it must be a pretty tight fit.