Buying a new saw

[Scruffydog]

So I have decided to replace my Craftsman 16" saw. The issues I am having are:

1. Having to press down too hard on the work piece to scroll for any length of time
2. Vibration
3. Tensioning

In general, I just don't like the saw well enough to want to do many projects. Plus I know that it could never be a production machine. So I have started to research saws and have it narrowed down to the question of tilting table vs tilting head. But other questions have popped up, so please forgive the somewhat lengthy post. I am looking for advice.

The Dewalt 20": Are they so poorly made now that you would avoid them? I want to grow into a part time scrolling business, so I starting looking at this one first. I had the thought of starting here and then upgrading after I got established. But if they are poorly made, I'm not sure I want to invest in one.

The Excalibur 16": I see some good prices, but am afraid that they are cheapened up now as well, and should be avoided, right?

The King 16": A stretch for my budget, but definitely in the running

The Jet 18": Same thing. Anyone know where they are made?

The Delta 20": Comparable to the Dewalt, but unsure of the reliability.

The rest are too spendy for me. Of those on my list, the Delta is the cheapest and the Jet is the most expensive. I am comparing these to my Craftsman, which is an ok saw for small stuff but I just don't like.

If you have thoughts I would appreciate hearing about them.

Thanks in advance for your help!

 

[kmmcrafts]

My preference order would be.... 1 being the first choice and 4 being my last choice.. That could flip opposite though if Jet resolved the table height issue. as I think the new clamping system would be awesome.. ( many do not like this new clamp system though.. and I do not have any experience with that saw..so.. that is just an uneducated opinion LOL) 

1) Ex or King.. If the smaller size will fit the projects you plan to make.... I thought only the 21" Ex was moved to another plant and the one to be concerned about? Maybe someone else could explain that better?

2) DeWalt... Mainly because it is a well known saw and holds its reselling value better than the others if you decide the saw isn't for you in a year or two.. after the return policy had expired..

3) Delta basically the DeWalt.. but not sure how well it holds value after a couple ears to resell it if wanted.. 

4) Jet I like the clamping system they have.. not sure if they redesigned the 18" saw but the 22" one had problems with the reverse teeth blades not being effective because the table was set up higher.. maybe Jet has resolved this issue now that they've been on the market for a while.. but do know they had some issues with this..

That all said... probably "for me" I'd first search for a quality used saw... unless you are dead set on just buying new... as I do that at times and just did so a few weeks ago by getting a brand new Hawk..  

[Scrappile]

I really do not like to recommend saws because so much of it is personal preference.   All I would say is of the ones you mentioned, the Jet is a bottom feed only saw, unless you invest in new clamps, which to me eliminates the one thing that sets it apart, it's top clamp.  Don't get me wrong, I am a bottom feeder so to me that is not an issue, just wanted to make sure you are aware of that feature.  The only issues I have read about the King or the Excalibur, is there is setup and adjustments required out of the box. They are not pre-tuned up like they were when purchased from Seyco.  You have that same thing with all the others you listed also.

One other thing, check you local area for used saws, craigslist, a local wood working club.  Sometimes you can get a used higher end saw for a great price.

[hineps]

I have been using my 16" King for a year now. I really like it. The only thing I needed to do right off the bat was to remove the dust collection  piece from the bottom of the table. I have to say it was a huge step up from the old 21"Craftsman I had. I've had no trouble with the saw so far. Bear in mind that I am not running it like a production saw. My impression is that it would hold up well as long as you kept up with the needed maintenance.

 

Phil

Edited January 11, 2019 by hineps

[hotshot]

I would remove a "New" excalibur outright as I've not heard anything good about any excalibur saw coming out of the new manufacturing facility in China.

There was some issues with parts availability after the Delta spin off, but I've not heard anything negative about them for a while, so I don't know.

I own a King 16", and it is basically identical to the old Taiwan Excalibur, and it is pretty good.  The Pegas Scrollsaw is coming to the U.S. market soon, with their clamps pre-installed, so that is a tempting option.  Should be identical to King except for the clamps and a nice color scheme.

I don't particularly like the new Jet clamps, but that is easy enough to switch to Pegas, you get an extra inch depth on the table, and the dust mechanism may be better if you like that.  I would probably remove it anyway.  The Jet company is large so should provide a good support mechanism. I don't care about the reverse teeth not engaging on the bottom as I could use FDUR which would work fine.  The Pegas blades I use wouldn't be affected.

Seyco should be on your short list as well as that company is very scroll saw focused, and have a long history of supporting what they sell.  That said, you won't have any local support unless you live in Texas.  I'm not a big fan of how table angle is adjusted on the Seyco and prefer the pinion of the original Excalibur type saws, but that is just me.

I don't think dewalts/deltas are any worse now than they have been in recent years.  If you are a production cutter, you can probably wear one out before the warranty is up.  I'm not a production cutter, so so that would not be a concern for me.  These saws are a pleasure to use.

All that said, if you are looking for a bargain, Dewalt will be your best bet via craigslist, just test drive it before you buy it.  If your lucky you might find a Taiwan made Excalibur, or any of these other saws on your list.

Edited January 11, 2019 by hotshot

[Rockytime]

I should not give you my advice but here goes. I have never had any of the saws you mentioned. What I have is a 220vs Ultra Hawk purchased used for $200. It need a new controller for $150. I was aware of this when I bought it as the owner handed me the old controller. I now have a most formidable saw for under $400. Used Hawks come up frequently on craigs list at often attractive prices. JMHO

[Scruffydog]

Thanks for the replies. Check CL most days and there is nothing but cheap saws in my area.

 

[kmmcrafts]

1 hour ago, unclescott said:

Thanks for the replies. Check CL most days and there is nothing but cheap saws in my area.

 

Yeah it's sad because when you're actually looking for something it doesn't show up... when you're broke and or not really looking they come up for sale at a next door place LOL.. This is how I got some awesome deals in the past was just to put up with my old junk saws for a while longer and wait it out.. those deals are there.. if you have the patients to wait it out.. 

[Scruffydog]

19 minutes ago, kmmcrafts said:

Yeah it's sad because when you're actually looking for something it doesn't show up... when you're broke and or not really looking they come up for sale at a next door place LOL.. This is how I got some awesome deals in the past was just to put up with my old junk saws for a while longer and wait it out.. those deals are there.. if you have the patients to wait it out.. 

Yeah, there is a Henniger out there for $650 and a Dewalt for $400. I can get a new Dewalt for not much more than that, and the Henniger doesn't appeal to me that much. Not for that price anyway.

[OCtoolguy]

53 minutes ago, unclescott said:

Yeah, there is a Henniger out there for $650 and a Dewalt for $400. I can get a new Dewalt for not much more than that, and the Henniger doesn't appeal to me that much. Not for that price anyway.

Be careful with Hegners. They have had a lot upgrades over the years. They are a great saw if you can find one with the latest additions. Take your time and read as much as you can on all the saws. There are really only 6-8 brands worth buying if you are serious about the hobby.

[lawson56]

Just bought a Delta,did a lot of research.I found more good reviews than bad.I will have to see for myself though.So far so good.

[kmmcrafts]

35 minutes ago, lawson56 said:

Just bought a Delta,did a lot of research.I found more good reviews than bad.I will have to see for myself though.So far so good.

i think those Delta saws are probably a very nice saw.. and I have read reviews on them.. as i almost bought one as a back-up saw for my DeWalt then those Hawks popped up on CL and I went that route instead.. Biggest thing with them back at that time anyway was resale values wasn't very good if I wanted to sell.. I think Dewalts hold the best resale value of any saw high or low end.. You get a new Hawk and have a hard time getting half the money you pay even if it's only a month old..

[Rockytime]

Hi Kevin, I think you are correct so I'm making you an offer. When you get your new saw I offer you half price but only with free shipping. :>)

[kmmcrafts]

20 minutes ago, Rockytime said:

Hi Kevin, I think you are correct so I'm making you an offer. When you get your new saw I offer you half price but only with free shipping. :>)

If I don't like it I might take you up on that..  

[hotshot]

I agree with Kevin on the Craigslist approach.  At any given time, there will be no "deals" on craigslist, but the trick is to check every day, and be patient.  You might also check eBay and facebook market.  On craigslist and ebay, check the cities on every side of you, as the bigger the town/city, the better your chances.

I have to admit, it's easier to be patient when you already have one great saw.  My first great saw I bought new.

Edited January 12, 2019 by hotshot

[JimErn]

45 minutes ago, hotshot said:

I agree with Kevin on the Craigslist approach.  At any given time, there will be no "deals" on craigslist, but the trick is to check every day,

On craigs list if you set up an account, its free, you can enter an alert with key words, as soon as something posts with that word you get an email.

I set one up for "scroll saw", got several emails, finally one was for an ex21, called immediately and it was mine.

[Scruffydog]

Got the go ahead to pull the trigger on a saw. Ordered the 16" Ex. With the 90 day return policy, I took the chance and saved almost 200. If it turns out to be junk, I'll return it and order the Dewalt.

Thanks to all for the comments. I'll post a pic when I unbox it.

[OCtoolguy]

1 hour ago, unclescott said:

Got the go ahead to pull the trigger on a saw. Ordered the 16" Ex. With the 90 day return policy, I took the chance and saved almost 200. If it turns out to be junk, I'll return it and order the Dewalt.

Thanks to all for the comments. I'll post a pic when I unbox it.

You're gonna love your new saw. Can't wait to see it.

 

[Asunsell]

I have the 22” Jet saw and love it. I did replace the bottom blade holder to a Pegasus (around $40) and I can confirm the bottom teeth now engage above the table.  Very smoothe and quiet saw with tuns of capacity.  Jet is also a great company to deal with and definitely won’t be going the way some smaller tool companies have 

[Scruffydog]

9 hours ago, Asunsell said:

I have the 22” Jet saw and love it. I did replace the bottom blade holder to a Pegasus (around $40) and I can confirm the bottom teeth now engage above the table.  Very smoothe and quiet saw with tuns of capacity.  Jet is also a great company to deal with and definitely won’t be going the way some smaller tool companies have 

Yeah, no matter what my next saw will be larger cause i want to end up with 2 saws anyway. Hoping to try the jet some day. I'd like to hear more about yours.

[Old Joe]

I did a review on the Dewalt DW788.Two weeks ago I tore mine down due to excess noise and vibration, repacked all of the bearings with synthetic grease and between that and converting to the Pegas clamps the saw now seems better than it was when it was new. If I were looking to buy a new saw I would want to learn more about the new Pegas that is advertised in Scrollsaw Woodworking & Crafts.

Here is my review of the DW788:

 

I have had my DW 788 for 3 years. I got it new for a good price complete with stand and standard light. It is an okay saw, but I have a few criticisms: For starters if you are a serious scroller you must add a foot controlled switch and a spring lifter. I feel these should be standard items. After I installed the foot switch the first thing I did was cover the factory switch with tape because if you don’t dust gets in it and the switch will fail prematurely. The light comes with an incandescent bulb that shorts out from vibration. Do yourself a favor and buy a LED fan type bulb. Next, the blade holders are awkward and the little tips that grip the blade don’t last very long before the blade starts slipping.Pegas makes great replacement clamps that are easier to deal with, but they are $75. Again, Dewalt should put them on standard. Now, this week the saw got very noisy. After watching a great video regarding this issue from a highly acclaimed scrollsaw repairman I have learned that the factory bearings are not the best, but worse yet, the grease used by the factory is a low quality grease that is just good enough to get a serious user through the warranty at best. So now I must tear the whole thing down, replace some of the bearings and repack the rest with synthetic grease. I am a serious scroller, and I scroll daily. I will rebuild the saw, and continue to use it. I do portraits with hundreds of cuts, and with the modifications I’ve made, and top quality blades, the Dewalt does a good job. It’s a huge step up from saws that sell for less than $200. But for the price, I don’t think one should have to put so much into it to make it really good.

[Woodmaster1]

On 1/11/2019 at 7:41 PM, Rockytime said:

Hi Kevin, I think you are correct so I'm making you an offer. When you get your new saw I offer you half price but only with free shipping. :>)

I up the ante I will drive the 85 miles so no shipping needed.(lol)

[Rockytime]

Hey I have first nibs! 

[kmmcrafts]

I just wish Hawk would get it mailed out.. My order still says Awaiting Fulfillment... You guys got dibs on the saw that I don't even have yet LOL... Who wants dibs on the old 220VS, EX-21 or the DeWalt? LOL those will be the most likely ones to leave out of my shop.. But maybe none of them will leave.. well I'm sure they'll all leave one day.. but some might leave soon.. but not until after the NEW Hawk gets a few hours on it..  

[Rockytime]

I wonder it they do not keep them on the floor but rather assemble them when an order comes in. I know their main business is farming and they run a small shop. I could be wrong.